biggentleben

Nobody wants my catching. Boo.

I have a feeling it will be thrown out pretty quick. The MLBPA cannot act on the behalf of players who are not part of their union. The legal action with a chance is a civil suit against baseball to get free agency for the players, but nothing MLBPA does should be able to hold water unless the arbiter chooses to ignore the CBA.

Also not Bonds, Ichiro, nor Robinson

It's not Ernie. Just looked him up. Cubs weren't last in any season Banks got a first place vote.

I'm guessing A-Rod in Texas is the two time guy, so him twice, Dawson, Carlton, and hmmm...I like Bonds.

Gil, while quoting your post would confuse all, including myself, too much, I'll discuss a couple points. First, excellent response. Well put comments. The belief on pitchers bunting is certainly true, however, many sacrifices are done by the 9 hole hitter in the AL, so it's not just pitchers, but anyone at the 9 hole. When you take out the pitchers, the AL does much better in total sacrifices, but when you check by position in the order, the NL does far more bunting outside of the 9-hole in the order than the AL. As far as the pinch-hitting restricting bench play, I'd strongly disagree on that point. Typically the pinch-hitting you'd do for the worst hitter, which is what the NL does regardless. The difference being that they can pinch hit for anyone in the lineup and make positional switches. If the DH has to come to the field, the AL team loses their DH slot in the lineup and has to bat their pitchers, which restricts that player for an entire game in his usage. As far as Simmons goes, he's my absolute favorite player in the game right now, so don't take my words as any knock on him. He's put up wRC+ numbers of 91 and 81 his two full years offensively, so technically, he's not yet achieved average offensive production.

One of the things that impresses me about Andrelton Simmons' game offensively is his bat control. Last night, early in the game, he showed bunt on two pitches, then ripped a directional sacrifice hit to the shortstop that moved over the runner instead. He doesn't get credit for a sacrifice for that play, but it did the exact same thing. Such skills are a lost art in the game. It's one of the reasons I LOVED watching Tony Gwynn hit. That said, the Braves have a reliever they called up, Chasen Shreve, who is reportedly a remarkable bunter. He was on deck on Monday when the last out was recorded, as he was going to take over for the 11th inning if the Braves made it there. I would hope that teams aren't afraid to utilize skills like that because of the DH if both leagues do adopt.

Yep, I did the research on that, and obviously the NL-style was more "small-ball" before even the DH came into play, and in the first decade post-integration and post-WWII, the NL still played more small ball even though they went in quicker and more deeply into integration than the AL.

Completely agree, but much like anything political in this country, there's a middle that makes perfect, logical sense, and there's the two extremes that are most vocal and most likely played out, sadly.

Okay, I went back the decades to take a look, going back a decade at a time with 1973 (the first year of the DH) as my central year. Obviously sacrifices are not the only statistic of small ball, but they're being used as an indicator here. 2013 - MLB Leader: Reds 85; AL Leader: Astros (#15) 46; AL teams in top 10 in MLB: 0 2003 - MLB Leader: Cardinals 87; AL Leader: Tigers (#11) 65; AL teams in top 10: 0 1993 - MLB Leader: Dodgers 107; AL Leader: Red Sox (#7) 80; AL teams in top 10: 1 1983 - MLB Leader: Padres 89; AL Leader: Angels (#11) 68; AL teams in top 10: 1 1973 - MLB Leader: Expos 115; AL Leader: Athletics (#10) 67; AL teams in top 10: 1 1963 - MLB Leader: Indians 88; AL Leader: Indians (#1) 88; AL teams in top 10 (only 20 teams): 5 1953 - MLB Leader: White Sox 120; AL Leader: White Sox (#1) 120; AL teams in top 10 (only 16 teams): 6 (including top 4) 1943 - MLB Leader: Cardinals 173; AL Leader: Tigers (#2) 123; AL teams in top 10 (only 16 teams): 5 1933 - MLB Leader: Pirates 147; AL Leader: Senators (#3) 130; AL teams in top 10 (only 16 teams): 4 One can see a drastic drop in sacrifices post-WWII/integration, but the NL has always played a more small-ball game on the whole than the AL, even before the DH, but drastically so since. So my concerns about the loss of the small-ball angle of the game is likely not going to happen, which is likely to the chagrin of many pro-DH supporters who want to see things like the bunt go away.

Just looked it up, and this season there's been some sacrificing since the podcast I listened to, and the leaderboard for sacrifices now has the Rangers at 15 and Giants at 16, otherwise, it is perfectly by league, the top 14 are NL teams, the bottom 14 are AL teams.

That's why I said that it's not just about the DH, but a lot of the arguments for the NL taking on the DH are based on style of play, and I'd hope they don't lose that focus. It is telling, however, when you look at things like sacrifice bunt numbers or defensive runs saved team numbers that there is a significant gap in the two leagues' style of play, and I'd be interested to see how much of that was a shift post-DH in the AL (as the NL has always been the league seen more for their defense, but I'm not sure about the small ball numbers).

This was from Monday's game between the Braves and Marlins. Andrelton Simmons, people: http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/gameday/index.jsp?gid=2014_07_21_miamlb_atlmlb_1&mode=video&content_id=34686181&tcid=vpp_copy_34686181 Twisting multiple directions to make the force, then still trying to get the double play from his backside. Incredible.

So, on the topic, I do not see the original proposal being feasible because of the confusing logistics of it, and baseball is very new-fan conscious in their rules with multiple quotes from this offseason's changes in the home plate collision rules and replay rules referring to making the game more understandable and clear for the casual fan. One thing recently pointed out on a podcast I peruse was that the major league leader in sacrifice bunts this season is the Cincinnati Reds with something like 45. The lowest in the league is the Oakland Athletics with 7. Of the top 10 in the league, one was an AL team. Of the bottom 10, one was an NL team. I think the style of play is significantly different with the DH, and it's not just the pitcher hitting. I'm a huge fan of pitching and defense. While I know that rarely attracts new fans to the game, there is a significant long-term fan base that appreciates tremendous efforts in those areas of the game. I searched for the article and found it was a podcast (and one I can't link at that )where I heard Tony LaRussa discuss Yadier Molina. He stated that Yadi was an All-Star before he was an above average hitter and that it took nearly a decade in the major leagues for him to become the offensive player that he is today. His stance was that hitters with that profile would struggle to get the chances they needed to build offensive game like Yadi did in the American League because of the emphasis on hitting 1-9 in the lineup with less focus on the "other things" of the game. I see it now with Andrelton Simmons. I'm not sure I've ever seen another player who played defense the way Simmons does. It is flat out remarkable. However, he's league average at best with the bat right now, and how quickly would he be getting the axe in an AL city? Heck, Pedro Florimon was lambasted all offseason and run out of town in spite of leading AL SS's in defensive runs saved and having an offensive season in his first full major league season akin to what Yadi did in his first full season (68 OPS+ vs. 70). Now this year, Florimon took a significant step back to the point where his offense was so putrid it wouldn't play regardless of the quality of his defense (which also took a step back, interestingly), but you see the point in that a guy like Florimon in an NL city is an accepted position as long as the defense is still there, while in the AL, his fans are screaming for his head. I don't think all the difference are attributable to the DH rule only, but it certainly does add to it. The casual fan believes that a pitcher going from an AL to NL team will get better because there's no DH and therefore hitting is down, but the games are played quite different, and there's as much or more influence on the pitcher's ERA of the increased quality of defense and "small ball" in the NL versus the AL's loaded lineups with a focus on Earl Weaver-style offense and mediocre defense in many cases. This is sounding like a rip on the AL, and I don't want it to be that by any means. I love AL baseball, but I also like the difference in style of play in the NL, and while I think that difference stems from more than just the DH, I'd hate to lose that style of play completely if all leagues implemented the DH.

I'm certainly glad I just took it survey. I enjoyed a lot of the articles and material, but I just didn't have the time when it was offered to put in the effort it would require to truly test on the material. I do feel like I got a lot of good background on stats that are current and ones that are on the way.

So what did everyone think of the course?

Hey now! I resemble that remark!!

I've had people ask why I write for free (mostly). For me, it's a great way to get access to people within the game that I'd not be able to have access to without the site backing me. That said, I've got a full-time job, and if something ever happened with my writing, I'd likely still have a full-time job besides the writing gig. These kids really were putting their eggs in this basket, which is partly youthful naivety, but it's also what one Baseball Prospectus writer has called "the sickness", which is such a love for the game that you're willing to work for nearly nothing (and sometimes absolutely nothing) because you get to spend more time with the game you love. While BR's site is generally crap and their slideshows make me cringe, having your name now attached to BR when you go to apply for the Star Tribune or Atlanta Journal Constitution sports department is actually something of a sort of prominence, so some of these kids got exactly what they'd need in order to launch a writing career.

The medical part is actually one of the best arguments FOR declaration. The NFL and NBA combines are paid for by teams for players who have declared for the draft, and any medical testing that an individual team wants to do for a player is paid for by that team (for a player who wasn't invited to the NFL combine, for instance). MLB would be able to put together a medical combine completely paid for by teams with a declaration. Until that point, any medical combine would constitute a violation of amateurism if paid for by MLB or an individual team.

Those players are then allowed representation before the draft so anything that does happen with them is covered by an agent and the union. For years and years before putting in the rule about declaring, the NBA allowed players to not sign with an agent before the draft and choose to go back to school if they went undrafted, but baseball's draft is so large that this would likely never happen. There are some major benefits for teams in that they know a guy wants to go to the majors, not play with someone for more money to "buy them away" from college. This issue with the contracts and the Astros would have someone to represent the players rather than them really having no recourse whatsoever because they're not represented by agents or the union.

Once again, that's two years out. Let's revisit these emboldened statements in 4-7 years when we can see more clearly the fruits of the draft.

We'll agree to disagree. Without Correa, there wouldn't have been McCullers or Ruiz. The whole package of that draft to get a legit top 5 prospect in all of the game two years out along with two legit top 100 prospects in the first three picks is elite as far as a draft goes two years out. 2013 has been rough at 1-1 obviously, and his pick fit their strategy in 2013 - high floor. The Astros wanted a pitcher, and they chose floor over upside with Gray vs. Appel. They found Jordan Mills after the 20th round, and he's been receiving rave reviews thus far. Conrad Gregor has moved through two levels this year, and he'll likely be at AA by the end of the year the way he's ripping up high-A. Tony Kemp has already jumped to AA. Devonte German has taken a major step forward, though the numbers aren't showing it yet. Their 2013 picks aren't guys who will leap up prospect lists because they're really not huge upside guys, but every one of their early guys has made progress in 2014.

They can put in a rule to require a declaration before the draft that would then protect those players.

I do not agree with this take. Correia, even with the injury, was ranked the #2 prospect in all of baseball by John Sickels (ahead of Buxton). Before his injury, there was a lot of rumble about Correia as the #1 prospect in the entire game. So, the 2012 draft is a widely considered success in the game, their 2013 draft has not gone as planned at the top, but that is completely a hindsight criticism as Appel was considered the odds-on #1 throughout the game. This season is a fiasco, certainly, but judging any draft class before 5+ years from the time of the draft is shortsighted, and there's really not a class before this one that was mismanaged by Luhnow. This year may have burned up a lot of currency with advisers for the players, however, and that aspect of pre-draft discussion (and post-draft negotiating) may need to be done by another member of the front office going forward.