jokin

Wish I'd said that....oh, I did. (Check the next post in thread).

Well said. As I stated before, the difference in ability between the top players is 1 or 2%, at most. A lot of opinions being thrown out in this thread with little understanding of the importance of this aspect.

...because that isn't what the Yankees expectation is, year-in, year-out? Why do you think they have already publicly hinted that they are taking a pass on Greinke?

The only problem with that is that those types of hitters don't get "Mauer Money" Off the top of my head, Ichiro makes only $18 Mil, and part of that is derived from the dollars he generates from his Japanese fan base. Power is worth more $$s.

"opportunties increased" also implies valuable experience gained for the next opportunity. There is also the question of the winning mind-set instilled within the Yankee culture, which certainly could be argued is learned expectations and resulting behavior, because if you don't pick up on that, you're gone (ask Carl Pavano).

Thanks for adding in another sport, I knew there were like-performers in other sports, couldn't come up with the perfect example, fortunately, you did, because I think it isn't sport specific! A more mental game like golf brings up Greg Norman, all the tools, always highly ranked, and the long-time sufferer in being branded by the media as a choker. Cliches like " he must have ice water in his veins" are usually originally grounded in some element of the truth. Terry Bradshow probably had it, he definitely wasn't the best athlete at his position, played at an obscure D-1AA school in Louisiana, but his coaches and teammates soon knew what their leader was capable of doing when big games were on the line. Like LeBron James, and Michael Jordan early in his career, their experience and confidence level grew as they progressed through their careers until they got to the point that they finally answered the question about being able to come through time after time on the biggest stage, so yes, I think it is something they can improve on when it doesn't come as naturally. Few people know how much time Jordan and Mauer spend on honing and refining their skills to make it look so effortless in front of 100 Million people. It may surpirse some, but I wholly agree with you on the "clutch" thing, too, which is why I am not overly enamored with the Jeter media phenomenon. A lot of performance and overperformance appears to be based on motivation levels, which may, or may not be, "clutch". In his autobiography, Bill Russell of the Boston Celtics talked about his legendary battles with Wilt Chamberlain (who was ridiculously tall, strong, agile, skilled, talented and utterly dominating). Russell said the reason the Celtics won all those titles was in how he and the Celtics prepared for Wilt. They made certain to never make him mad or give him any reason to "raise his level of play", something that he was fully capable of doing on any given night. He went on to describe Wilt as usually perfectly happy if his team lost, as long as he got something around his personal averages for the game. He then went on to describe the incredible performances Wilt had when someone or something made him mad. Roger Clemens and Ty Cobb come to mind in that regard, the madder they got, the better they got. Great performances, but not necessarily clutch. My impression is that some guys are just more internally motivated to thrive more when the stakes are higher, not nearly as focused when the stakes are lower and most importantly, less intimidated at the thought of possible failure as the games get more important.

Did TR crib that from Grantland Rice?

Except in my case, it's not a belief, but a formula, for proven, repeatable success.

That trend is definitely not your friend in terms of 50 years for TF. Refurbished Met Stadium didn't get much past 20. Most 60s, 70s and now, 80s parks have been or will be soon be replaced/significantly upgraded. Standard operating procedure for clubs that get new ballparks is to maximize the media and cultural attention by gearing the park towards the clubs' marketing strengths, not its weaknesses. For good reason, they want front end-payoff and let the out-years of the park's life take care of itself. For all intents and purposes, the public statements of Kubel, Morneau, Mauer, et al, and the public's percepton, is that the park is unfair to lefties and the latter two guys led off every single commercial to the run-up n the marketing of the Target Field Experience- and it continues to this day. And the appearances are that the players aren't enjoying their "TF Experience".

I saw those three examples, too. How I so productively get annoyed on my afternoon off. Speaking of annoyed, I wasn't annoyed by the quotes, I was amused. The metero-sexual, in-touch-with-your-feelings approach for public figures to assume as a persona is everywhere else in our culture, so of course, it's drifted into baseball. At least we haven't descended to Euro-style athletics, where everyone but the rugby and irish hurling players writhe in agony when they trip or break a fingernail. I'm not asking Mauer to behave like Brett Favre, although they both were quarterbacks, Joe appears to be a far more decent guy, I just would hope that he cut back on the introspection and "masculinize" his quotes concerning his onfield endeavours to just a shade more toward Brett. I know as a teammate, it would definitely instill more confidence in him as someone to count on for leadership. "Ah, the days of yore, when men were men and their women were glad of it.'

Numero Uno, for sure. Major cringeworthiness.

It does go back to the organization. When you have two premier, recent MVP-level players who happen to be lefties and don't make every effort to tailor the park to their strengths seems the height of stupidity. The tree excuse was petty and silly and production went down after they were removed. The trees were a natural home-field advantage, there is precedence for them being there, so the safety issue is moot. It came down to more coddling and enabling, instead of re-tooling the ballpark. I proposed from season one to extend the porch overhang from foul pole to right center, restore the trees, while retaining the integrity of the park, problem solved.

The Pio-Press did such an article and was from where I obtained my two quotes. Sorry, I don't have the link, but it was easy to find.

You are correct, and I cringe and bite my tongue every time I read misuses of affect/effect and loose/lose, won/one, etc, because of the appearances that you are trying to win an argument grammarily. Regarding the substance, I just prefer "a man's gotta do what a man's gotta do" approach to playing a kids game for millions of dollars. As on the other issue concerning his injury, Joe is a man, he's tough, an incredible talent...... who needs to hire a better media advisor. I thought plain-spoken, far-less-sophisticated, Jim Thome, hit all the same notes and left no room for misinterpretation of where he stood regarding the situation with Target Field.

Again, "regular talent level" takes into account games against the St Louis Browns as a means to gathering your statistical sample. The best have consistently produced numbers at or above their seasonal averages against the very best teams under the extreme pressure spotlight, take that plus add all the advantages that the other team in a 7 game series has to focus their entire intellectual effort to scout/study/profile them in probing for weakensses. Those that exceed their norms are outliers for a reason, they are special. If you watched Kirby in 87 and 91 both on the field and in his interactions with the media, you knew, win or lose, he was in the midst of raising his game, this guy was one of the special ones.

Well said. I heartily concur. My expertise is in another sport, but I think it does translate to all of the major sports. IE, Mauer definitely did it to Chapman.

Not faith-based on my part. I saw it first-hand as a player. My college team won 3 NCAA titles and we had "regular guys" that stepped up to different, previously unrecognizable levels during our title runs, while a couple of the guys that ended up playing professionally didn't end up being the key guys in crunch time, repeatedly. One example, my college later on had a lefty who ended up pitching for the Giants, he was never on anyone's radar because he never treated his regular season's seriously. No one predicted that he would pitch professionally He had a couple great games in the playoffs, got an invite to a tryout camp, where there is very real, absolute pressure coming in as a complete unknown amongst 100+ other guys. Of course, with the cameras whirring, every eye on the Giants scouting staff watching and the radar gun flashing red on every one of his pitches, he wowed the Giants, who signed him on the spot. Never saw him pitch like that until that college playoff run, his approach and personality completely changed when the pressure increased. As a coach and recruiter, where the difference between the best and second best being such a small fractional value, a top priority was recruiting guys that could repeatedly and demonstrably raise their level in crunch time over the guys with obvious superior athletic talent, skill and size.

Perception does not equal truth, but reality equals truth, when "winners" repeatedly win and regularly perform at high levels in pressure situations far greater than those they see in the typical regular season game , perception equals reality- which equals truth. That we don't see it on a regular basis is the point. Have you played or been involved with teams expected to perform on the highest levels relative to their age/skill level? The trait is rare and obviously exists on a sliding scale of effectiveness- this isn't the all-or-none proposition that you proffer, notwithstanding your "almost always" demurral, this is the key to the discussion, you admit the exceptions exist, which goes to supporting my point. There is a litany of evidence that some great athletes absolutely choke up in big moments, until this year LeBron James was the poster boy for choke artistry. A good coach/ scout easily recognizes who is a crunch time, and who is a choke time player when he sees them. Those who possess it are coveted immediately for one's roster upon discovery of the trait and in turn, must be accounted for if you have to go up against them. That doesn't mean the Mr October players bat .850 and get the winning homer every single time in the bottom of the 9th, down 2, with 2 on and 2 out and 2 strikes, but at least the coach knows his odds for a successful outcome are the best/worst that they are going to be. Thank you for an interesting and challenging discussion. You imposing and powerful points and counterpoints were undoubtedly the reason you were chosen MVP of your college Debate Team.

I can only speak for myself, as you directed this to the whole forum. Hard to be indignant over something that ridiculously bombastic. And, I did include your third option concerning adjectival choices- as I stated- I didn't use any. I gave the quote as printed in the Pioneer Press, verbatim. I didn't say it was "crying", or "whining". I let it stand to compare and contrast with Thome's. And then you continued in your passive-agressive assault on "certain someones'" opinions wuth whom you disagree. Nice attempt at marginalization. This behavior I wouldn't discount as "borderline".

It isn't about trying, and it does make sense if you've actually seen it happening. Of course they "try" every time, but isn't it possible to see the concept that some games "matter more" than others? That the stakes are different? It's a whole different concept, rising above, taking your game to a higher level...... I know you've heard the term: "No guts. No glory." It is said for a reason.

I brought that up due to the recent line-up shuffles with the DH and all, Mastro appears to be getting some extra looks lately, are they in the midst of making a "big decision", based on impending developments, on which direction to take, ala Dozier/Valencia? The MO for the manager has been to throw one guy in there and see how he reacts. Parmelee failed the first test in April, have they so soon dismissed that, or is his AAA performance and his recent HR enough to give him another clear shot at the job? There certainly is little to suggest Mastro should merit such consideration long-term, although I don't mind him at all in the role you described for him.

You keep bringing up Jeter. He's not my idea of the best clutch player and why I didn't bring him up. I coached guys that were, repeatedly. Some guys I had coaching and/or played with were so-so players, until the games really mattered. It was a transformative thing, it was not a mirage, you could see it in real time, and it happened again, and again. That's a real-time critical thinking test that I saw repeated time and time again. Having said that, statistics bind athletic performance to something less than all-worldliness. Of course, no one has ever been able to deliver in every single pressure situation, what doesn't make sense is dismissively thinking that players with this particular personality profile don't exist. They do.

Dave, stop making so much sense. It only irritates Gardy. Do you think Parmelee gets the automatic nod in RF, or does he try to mix in Mastro on some type of platoon situation? If Mastro gets more PT, he would be my choice down in the 9 spot. Sadly, if Span is dealt, Gardy still writes Mauer's name in the 3 hole and he likely moves Carroll up to 2.

I didn't bring up Bonds or Jeter for a reason. How about Reggie Jackson and Michael Jordan? I have to disagree with your suppostion, as I have personally discerned the difference firsthand on numerous occasions. There is just something different in the psychological profile in players like these. You looked at the numbers, which are the averages for the regular season, playing the KC Athletics/Royals, Chicago Cubs, St Louis Browns, and the other all-too-numerous typical bottom dwellers of their eras. These players are not just meeting, but exceeding their average numbers, ......and doing it against the best teams in MLB/NBA.......who all have the chance to run saturation study/scout profiles over 7 game series to attack any weak tendencies......playing in front of packed houses.......in front of 10s of Millions in the Mass Media..... and under severe scrutiny from gonzo journalists and crazed fans. Jack Morris did not regress. Michael Jordan did not regress. Kirby did not regress. Koufax did not regress. I hope Joe gets many more chances to regress!

I love it and have advocated for Mauer at the 2 spot from the time he got here. The only possible variation where I differ is having Revere in the 9 spot to have him only 1 away from Mauer's spot, with Carroll/Casilla in the 8 and Dozier in the 7.