jokin

These 4 years of stats aren't surprising. They are shocking when compared to Twins SP futility over the same time span. Colon outpitched every SP over the 4-year span who pitched at least 250 innings- even Ervin Santana. Say "Hello" to the porky guy who would have been the Twins ace since 2013. To put it in even more disturbing perspective- Colon's WORST season of the last four- 2015- was BETTER than the combined 4-year #s for every Twins pitcher, except Santana.

Is Chad Allen working with Tonkin on his brush-back pitch? Owning the inside corner is one way to get yourself back to the majors... perhaps Tonkin's only way back?

The Twins broadcasting duo keep playing up Granite's success on a nightly basis... making his promotion to the Twins seem inevitable... if not in fact, imminent. Last night, Bremer actually posed the question of which of the 3 young OF would be the most likely to be traded to make room for Granite. (I guess they haven't bothered to notice that his 2017 BABIP is ~100 points over his career MiLB average) . I'd love to Granite take the AL by storm, but caution and tempered expectation seem to be called for in this case.

The last 6 seasons the Twins exceeded my expectations- for levels of futility and ineptitude. This year they're exceeding my expectations practically on a game-by-game basis- I penciled them in @ ST as 2 years away from being competitive and 1 year away from daily being fun to watch- gotta say... it's much more enjoyable to be wrong on this side of the expectations game. 1987- after 73 games- 41-32 Two game lead 2017- after 73 games- 39-34 Half-game lead 1987- ERA 4.79 2017- ERA 4.83 1987- wRC+ 100 2017- wRC+ 97 Of course, we all know there's no way the Twins are going anywhere this year. And my old Gardy-inspired fear and loathing of the AL East is kicking up something fierce this evening as Fenway looms. But then again, I had the same dread for this weekend in Cleveland. Baby steps... learning to adjust my expectations a bit higher...

Just finished watching today's game. I guarantee that today would have been a blowout for the Indians a year ago- a guy who's struggled all year took the game over and a patchwork pen bears down right when you least have the right to expect the good times to keep on rolling.*** Last night, Buxton stole a game from the Tribe, despite the homeplate umpire's attempt to hand it to Kluber. Friday night, Mejia did his best Deduno-esque impression and then combined with the previously-struggling BP- threw the most unlikely, early-on-ugly shutout that one could imagine- with Mollie ultimately entrusting a non-assuming 22nd RD draft pick to debut and close out the game against the defending AL champs, just hours after being called up. This series had all the elements of a team shaking off its shaky recent past, this weekend was why we watch. *** Challenge ?s for intrepid statheads among us.... 1) Can anyone recall the last time the Twins had 3 shutouts in 4 games? 2) Can anyone recall the last time the Twins swept the defending AL champs on the road?

Good thinking. Those are also my #1 and #2 picks for accelerated promotion, although Jorge makes it relatively simple to get first cup of coffee being already on the roster. Regardless, it's past time to end the parade of AAAA arms coming up like lambs to the slaughter. (At least Pino and Heston have been awful enough in AAA to preclude the brain trust from going down those roads).

Soo... The Twins have a plan for Melotakis, right? Or what am I missing? A left handed strikeout pitcher who appears fully past TJ surgery on a team whose pitching depth has more holes than Swiss Cheese is suddenly out of their long term AND short term strategies? If they don't have a trade in mind, are they thinking that Melo won't be claimed, or that they have given up on him having ML chops?

September? Perhaps sooner, much sooner.

Nice sarc, I presume?

Seems like only a matter of time for when Zach Granite gets the call to replace Rosario.

That is an understatement and then some. I just checked the leaderboard in the Southern League. Gordon is the ONLY 21-year-old among qualified position players. And he's either first or among the league leaders in multiple hitting categories. Despite the necessary caution needed for an inflated BABIP, he's in the midst of a monster season- and showing newfound power (leads the SL in XBH). As a SS, arguably you could make a strong case for Gordon being the first half SL MVP.

Oh, the humanity!

Already multiple mentions of Lewis moving to the OF should lower his ranking to the middle of the Top 10 (3-6?). I tend to think Javier should be somewhere in the Top 5, whichever one of the two sticks at SS should automatically be rated higher- thus far I've heard fewer projections that Javier will definitely have to move away from SS. Not to say that Lewis won't become an eventual standout Twins regular, but all in all- a disappointing decision by the Twins for a #1 overall pick. I think you're spot on with Gordon. I can easily forsee Gordon and Javier eventually being the Twins MI mainstays for many years to come.

Wondering about Wander....?

Jorge has really turned it on in his last 5 starts. Superb command and control while upping his K%, WHIP @ .87, AVG @ .192 and 1.83 ERA. And going 7 or nearly 7 IP each outing. Lofty strand rate over career avg. might be a concern... but I think he's ready for an extended look-see at Rochester. Speaking of promotions, it certainly appears that Mason Melotakis is fully healthy. He's dominating both lefties and righties. He might be able to help the major league bullpen before the end of the season... and the way things are going with the Twins SPs, Jorge might even help the Twins, too. Anyone know Melo's velocity so far in 2017?

You are the one with fairly strong certainty that he is aging and going to regress. You believe that, not me. Your argument is your downfall, because you assume you know something more about Santana that gives the Twins the franchise-saving upper hand in a trade. OTOH, I think there is a decent, but not certain, chance that Santana can pitch strongly enough over the course of the season, that, with a little bolstering in the rotation and the pen, the team can remain in the playoff hunt. I don't have consternation over trading Santana- if they're clearly fading between now and August 1, you solicit your best offer(s). But my position is that you hold on to him while you are clearly playoff-viable. ...And, you most certainly don't automatically assume that because you have all of these intractable personnel, payroll and institutional issues, that the ONLY course to take is that you HAVE to trade your best pitcher in a Cy Young-type season- while your team is on the developmental upswing, with a potential MVP., a revived 1st baseman, oh... and also in 1st place in a division that is up for grabs.

Quick tip: Any amateur who uses the phrase "Pro tip" in their summation, isn't all that sure of his own convictions. 1) Again, my response was to another poster- who characterized it as fairly perfunctory to acquire two "cost-controlled solid MLB-level SPs" for Santana. So, throwing away any chance in 2017 while the Twins are still in 1st place and taking a 50-50 gamble at improving the team over the intermediate run- at best- is the "solution" to the Twins pitching woes? Trading the guy that YOU- not me- say is aging and on the brink of regressing to the mean? Sorry, but the rest of the MLB GMs are smarter than that. 2) Your factual accuracy is wildly off on Nunez. He is a starter for the Giants and started 141 games in 2016. 3) Who said "dump what's left of the farm"? I clearly said they have 4 very intriguing SS and 4 potential Top 100 arms. And another top 100 position player. And they have the #1 pick in the 2017 draft and two more top picks in the first 35. Still a lot of talent floating around in the system, even after a deadline trade for pitching. 4) Who said anything about "renting" an SP? I proposed acquiring a salary dump front-end guy, and possibly trading on the cheap for an impending FA back-end SP- who could possibly re-sign in the offseason. 5) "But it's pie in the sky to think they can get two prospects for Santana. Riiiiight....." No one is arguing whether or not they can get two prospects for Santana. They most certainly can. The risk is in who they are and what transpires- health and developmentally. That is Chief's "extension of the window of sucking"- trading quantifiable known assets for relatively unquantifiable uncertainly.

"Thank you." To end my flippancy, myself and many others on this thread have made it extremely clear that consideration of a Santana trade is clearly in the Twins best interest if/when it becomes obvious that their weaknesses have caught up with them and their luck has run out. That time has not come yet, and there are still measures the team can take to increase their chances of making the playoffs, without significantly jeopardizing the future.

Clearly quite possible, "yes".

Thread-Winner (clarifier)

I have hope for Gonsalves and Jorge, and possibly Jax and even Wells. Stewart's situation doesn't look good at the moment, but that could change for the better with an improved developmental approach from new management that come from pitching development backgrounds- the talent is there for Stewart, but not much baseball instinct in a football-first talent. The Twins inability to turn on his talent to this point is pretty telling.

I have no idea what this phrase means.... sarcasm? In point of fact (a point that you seem to have missed badly), Santiago is my least favorite Twins SP. The point I made was in response to another poster. A poster who wanted to acquire two solid, cost-controlled SPs in exchange for the aging Santana, and dumping his salary in hopes of rebuilding. The odds that you are going to steal 2 SPs from some team that are major league dependable and good to go for the next 3-6 yrs in exchange for dumping Santana aren't very high. Face it, virtually all MLB teams have the same info, are in the same situation with concern to pitching depth and set the same value on pitching arms. Hasn't every team also figured out that Santana is aging and pitching above his median #s? And knowing what we know, that they are perfectly willing to risk the turn-into-pumpkin regression that you confidently predict is imminently looming? With this common knowledge around baseball, the Twins are perhaps more likely, even if they're lucky, to end up with two more Santiago-types, as opposed to the pie-in-the-sky hope by the "perpetual rebuilder" supporters, that the Twins will somehow get a #1/2 and a # 3 (or say, two #2s) from the same trade in question. If you are aware of another surreptitious-sure-thing Jake Arrieta-type who is available out there in exchange for Santana, I'm all ears. How about instead of focusing on the Twins dumping salary and continuing another round of rebuild, finding teams that aren't in 1st place (like the Twins), but perhaps on or near the bottom and going nowhere, and then trying to trade the remaining prospects (out of 4 SS and 4 MLB Top 100-potential arms) with them for "established, solid and cost-controlled pitchers" to bolster the current pitching depth? One of Johnny Cueto, Edinson Volquez, Julio Teheran at the front end and one of the cheaper 2018 FA types destined for potential salary-dump- like Clayton Richard, Alex Cobb, Jason Vargas.... to bolster the back-end of the rotation.

Yeah... let's get 2 MORE cost-controlled Hector Santiagos....? Or one Santiago and one SP prospect that some team considers expendable. Teams just don't throw away Johan Santana-types anymore. Hard to believe there are Twins fans pleased enough with the previous 6 years of futility to actually looking forward to intentionally tanking 2017- and in the process of said trade- to continue "building for the future"- likely guaranteeing a continuation of said futility out to maybe 2019 or 20, or maybe even, "building for the future" that never comes. Fal-vine spent their first big $$$s and brought in Jason Castro- ostensibly to win in the three-year window of his contract. Turns out the window has opened a little earlier than most anyone expected. Why would anyone want to turn the current possible scenario- ala Twins 1987- into hopeful SP prospects painfully coming of age- or not... and then the worst-case scenario, possibly 3 more years of extending the Chief's windows of sucking.

Yup. Last year looks more and more like an injury-related anomaly. Most impressive is that he has doubled his career ISO result- from .119 to .239-. Maturing into his body and getting much stronger? IMO- A sustained season by Palacios at anywhere CLOSE to his current POY rate of production (and hopefully combined with a 2nd half promotion and quick adaptation to the Pitcher-oriented FSL) should vault him into consideration eventually for the Top 50

Mike apparently now wants Sixel, instead. I get the part about "trading high", but the Sox and Royals are dead meat, the Tigers haven't shown much of anything indicating they're ready to get off the mat. And the Indians have their own set of issues. The Twins have a veteran guy who is truly "showing the way" for a guy like Berrios or Mejia, and hopefully eventually. for Gonsalves, Romero and Jorge. if the Twins are still leading the Central or in the hunt as we head towards August 1, the Twins need to be buyers, not sellers. Not the year to tank it on purpose when you have both a potential Cy Young and MVP winner (Sano) on the roster. OTOH... If the Twins are down by 5 games or so and fading after the ASB, you gotta listen to any offer that blows you away.