Riverbrian

How does anyone know for sure that Terry Ryan wasn't on the phone with the Marlins trying to pull the deal together and the Marlins chose the Blue Jays offer. Just because the trade was made with the Jays doesn't mean that the Twins didn't put their best foot forward. I don't think money is the issue... They could have made the trade and salary dumped Morneau and payroll would have been pretty reasonable. Its quite possible that the Twins didn't have the trade chips that interested the Marlins to pull the deal off. Sometimes it seems the bubble we live in is a little blinding. We have anger at TR because two other squads made a trade. How does this make sense?

I seriously could care less about payroll... and I think its flat out crazy to assume that the amount of money spent is some sort of proof that a team wants it more. The Tigers and Twins are simply in different places right now. After reaching the WS and a pitching staff of Verlander, Scherzer, Fister. The Tigers would be idiots to not go after someone like Hunter in consideration of the squad they have returning. This puts the Tigers in one boat and the Twins are clearly in a other boat. Someday(hopefully soon but maybe not) the tables will turn and somebody on a Tigers chat board will be saying the same about the Twins.

Deck Mcquire... Chad Jenkins... Kyle Drabek... I have no idea if they are any good... But it looks like the Jays have some extra young arms for consideration... Give me a couple of those and I'll pray for their success.

Nice Post Jim... I Agree completely... I'm hoping that TR will be willing to overpay for someone else. I'm ok with it not being Baker. Jeez... The Off Season Moves slow when you are waiting for something positive.

It's an odd thing... One basic baseball assumption that I make and is usually a good indicator are Triples. A triples leader is a guy who puts it out there. Right... Drew has had his fair amount of triples... You see many players pull up at 2B... If I guy is collecting triples... That's a gamer... I think that's a fair assumption to make. Drew was a guy who would rack up the three baggers in years past... That's tells me he's a gamer... Yet I read all this conflicting stuff on attitude and I have no idea the source of the it. Could be some yahoo writer who saw the guy leave a bad tip at a restaurant or someone who was refused an interview. In the end... I'm just cautious joining the Drew to Minnesota club because of the owners comments this summer ande the way he was nudged out of town and he has been struggling and not totally Stephen Drew like offensively of late. We don't need another Delmon Young in Minnesota at this time. Attitude is the way back. Scratch that... Pitching is the way back... but attitude will be very important... Besides Gardy will end up running him out of town eventually with any attitude problems and probably for very little in return. We saw the same thing happen with Orlando Hudson, but whats wrong with him being a stop gap for a year just like Hudson was? He is worth the gamble. He is better than anything we have right now, and I say go after him. Attitude.. Clubhouse... Like I said the Twins Need a Little Johnny Sunshine... Salary... If signing a SS takes up any revenue that could be spent on pitching... I personally believe it would a mis-allocation of funds. I'm praying that TR has a solid plan and is in the midst of putting it together. Maybe a SS is part of that plan right now... Maybe he believes in the current Shortstops on the roster... I'm not sure... I'm a broken record though... Pitching... Pitching... Pitching... It's Mid-November and we have Scott Diamond and it worries the Alfred E. Nueman out of me. Any positive non-pitching acquistion will be wasted quickly by a pitching staff that is getting punched in the face every night.

I getcha Davis... I guess it all rests upon whose definition of mediocre pitching. Mediocre Pitching in my definition is what we currently have. I honestly don't believe there is a position player that is reachable for us via trade that can overcome our own Mediocre pitching. Trading for Jose Reyes would be fantastic but it wouldn't do much for the Twins in my opinion because the pitching will render the acquisition worthless. Jose Reyes simply couldn't add enough offense to overcome the pitching staff. Cozart is an improvement but the addition of Cozart will not overcome the pitching hole that we have. We need to acquire arms that are better then what we have and we have limited trade options to accomplish it. No one wants to see a trade of Span for Marquis... Hopefully if Span is dealt it will be for someone with a little more upside. A direct infusion into the rotation would be much better for the club than an improvement in spots 2 thru 9. I think we are on the same page... Neither of us want a desparation trade for pitching that nets us Marquis.

It's an odd thing... One basic baseball assumption that I make and is usually a good indicator are Triples. A triples leader is a guy who puts it out there. Right... Drew has had his fair amount of triples... You see many players pull up at 2B... If I guy is collecting triples... That's a gamer... I think that's a fair assumption to make. Drew was a guy who would rack up the three baggers in years past... That's tells me he's a gamer... Yet I read all this conflicting stuff on attitude and I have no idea the source of the it. Could be some yahoo writer who saw the guy leave a bad tip at a restaurant or someone who was refused an interview. In the end... I'm just cautious joining the Drew to Minnesota club because of the owners comments this summer ande the way he was nudged out of town and he has been struggling and not totally Stephen Drew like offensively of late. We don't need another Delmon Young in Minnesota at this time. Attitude is the way back. Scratch that... Pitching is the way back... but attitude will be very important... Besides Gardy will end up running him out of town eventually with any attitude problems and probably for very little in return.

Thank God the Vikings have the go ahead for a new stadium... This type of ownership action could put a monkey wrench in stadium deals across the country in all sports. It smells of legal theft. It won't be good for the health of baseball in Southern Florida. Major perception problem to come. As for the trade... It looks like the Marlins got a package that would have been worth Jose Reyes alone but I really have nothing to judge it against... This is one of the largest trades ever so its unprecedented. It's a stunner... I just wonder if the Marlins could have gotten more by sending pieces across the league. Instead one large deal like this.

First off... I'm not a Stephen Drew expert... Not trying to pretend to be... Just read some stuff on him... 2nd hand info... Saw that he was given away and put two and two together and my gut says that the stuff I've read must have some truth because he was given away and the D-Backs need a SS and rumors have them shopping for one big time. I could be completely off base because how could I really know and I don't like defaming someone without direct knowledge because some may read this and also believe the guy is an ass. He might not be. I read reports of his attitude coming out of college. I've read reports of being soft and tantrums. Last year the owner called him out saying he should have been back from his injury already. Accused him of not being a team player. I realize that Drew had a hefty option and Boras as an agent... I also realize that he was hitting worse than Florimon but SS is a weak position overall... The guy had some decent numbers prior... There are teams that need a SS... He's fairly young... he could rebound back... Why would this guy be given away. With that disclaimer... If what I've read is true or half true. My answer to your question is this: Because you want to get better!!! If you bring a guy in who gets frustrated... Pouts... Points fingers... He will kill you... Guys like this feed on the negative and make it more negative and the Twins have negative to feed off. The two foot hole becomes a three foot hole. It simply isn't the way back. It's not just baseball... It's any work environment... You have all worked with someone like this... Maybe you are this guy... You watch them bash everything... Get pissed off because someone else didn't support his idea or looked at him funny. First thing that doesn't go right... They say I told you so and are almost joyful in being right. They refuse to put in extra time because the Mickey Mouse outfit doesn't appreciate them. I've seen this type many times... There may be a few posting on this site... If things are going well... They have less to complain about... The minute it isn't... they make it worse. I have no idea if Drew is this guy... Just worried he could be and if he is... He's the last guy you bring to a losing team to make the team better. Too much ammo to work with. So the answer is... Because you want to get better and you need people who will believe you can... even when it looks like you might not.

Without decent medical knowledge... I'd be on the phone with his agent immediately.

True but the A's also....until last year do not spend money, so it doesnt raise to many flags for me. Why not? He is better the Florimon, Escobar or Carrol. He made some great plays defensively towards the end of the season. He didnt get fully healthy until September and thats when he started to turn it on somewhat. the guy has skill... My god he was a triples machine for a good long stretch and he could be there again... Reports are that he's a clubhouse problem. I don't have any first hand knowledge but if true... He won't last long with Gardenhire. Gardy doesn't tolerate clubhouse problems and they end up being traded for next to nothing like Delmon Young. You can do well with a clubhouse problem if you are loaded and winning.... A team like the Twins who are not loaded nor winning... A clubhouse problem will kill you because clubhouse problems are the first guys to play like they don't care when things are not going well. You are better off with a guy who hits less but gives it all he has.

Of course the goal is to win the WS... But you can't skip step one.

Honestly... I thought it was time to tear down and rebuild in late April... I guess it must depend on your owners... Pohlad and Ryan appear to be more steady for lack of a better word. If they are not tearing down right now... They must think they can fix it... The Marlins have a different style... Go big and bring some players in and start rebuilding the second it didn't work. Who's right? Lets see who gets there first.

The D-backs are desperately looking for a SS right now. They had Drew and basically gave him to the A's... The A's apparently are not going to re sign him for the money hes asking.... If that isn't a neon sign hanging over his head I'm not sure what is.

I'd be happy if they got one guy that they really really like in FA. If it takes 20 million so be it... Just one guy... Make him good... Baker for 5 is not that guy in my opinion.

I agree with this... Overpay on someone else is my thinking?

First, I'm not using 85 wins as the yardstick/milestone/divider/whatever. John is, and I'm working from that starting point. Second, my final point was that it doesn't matter if 85 win teams are just as effective at winning the World Series as teams with 90 or more wins (and no, I don't believe they are), if 85 win teams almost never make the playoffs, just like you pointed out as well. 85 wins is next to worthless with respect to making the postseason. So why shoot for 85 wins if it comes at the expense of seldom making a push for more? Because of our 'weak division', in which 85 wins captured exactly one division title in the last 10 years, and during which the Central champ averaged 93 wins? I'll take a pass on that strategy. But I agree with your final point! OK... Call me Emily Litella! I misunderstood your point. Yes... Winning 85 decreases your odds of winning the WS because it decreases your odds of making the playoffs. My Next question would be this then... What GM would design a baseball team to win 85 games specifically? That point will never make any sense to me. I would never want to be hung up on a specific number. The Gist of it... Is get into the playoffs? It doesn't matter if you win 80 or 100... just get in... Don't place your eggs in one year... Build something that can challenge for the playoffs every year. That increases your chances of winning it. Play meaningful baseball in September... That way you'll know for sure what kind of players you have. Have something for the players to get up and look forward to. As for the the "pretty freaking far from 85" comment. On Paper I agree... Common sense... I Disagree... 19 more wins gets you to 85. 1 more win every 8.5 games is not freaking far at all. It's baseball... Everybody is close! Some Pitching would help immensely.

This has always been my point... Get to the playoffs often and you have a better chance of winning a title. Absolutely with a big cherry on top.

Yes, really good regular season teams fail in the playoffs, just like high payroll teams often fail in the regular season. The point that John's correlation fails to make is that 85 win teams since 2003 almost NEVER win the WS. Only one 85 win team, La Russa's 2006 Cardinals, has even appeared in the past 10 WS, let alone won it. And that team was plagued by major injuries and inflicted 194 innings of perpetual albatross Jason Marquis on itself before ditching him in the postseason. A. The Cards did win the world series in 2006 with 83 Wins. You can't dismiss that and turn around and use it to make your point by saying it's only been done once since 2003. It's been done!!! It's actually a point against your thesis. B. If you are going to use playoff win percentage of teams with 85 wins or less as reasoning... You are going to have to factor in how many teams with 85 wins or less are eligibale to win the world series(IE Make the Playoffs). It's only fair. Only 4 teams(since 2002) have reached the playoffs with less than 85. 4 teams out of 88... That has to reduce the odds of it happening doesn't it. 2012... No Team made the playoffs with 85 wins or less. One team had less than 90 wins... The Tigers Reached the WS. 2011 and 2010... No team made the playoffs with 85 wins or less... No Team made the playoffs with 90 wins or less. 2009... No Team made the playoffs with 85 wins or less... The Twins were the only team to make the playoffs with 90 or less. 2008... The Dodgers made the Playoffs with 85 wins or less... The White Sox made the playoffs with 90 or less. 2007... The Cubs made the playoffs with 85 wins... The Phillies made the playoffs with 90 or less. 2006... The Cards made the Playoffs and Won the WS with 85 wins or less... The Dodgers and Padres made the playoffs with 90 or less. 2005... the Padres made the Playoffs with 85 wins or less...The Astros made the playoffs and reached the WS with 90 wins or less. 2004... No Team made the playoffs with 85 wins or less... no team made the playoffs with 90 wins or less. 2003... no team made the playoffs with 85 wins or less... The Cubs made the playoffs with 90 wins or less. 2002... no team made the playoffs with 85 wins or less... no team made the playoffs with 90 wins or less. That's 11 years... I could keep going but I don't want to... During that Span... 88 Teams qualified for the playoffs. A total of 4 made the playoffs with less than 85 wins. One of them won the world series and that is 25% 16 teams reached the Playoffs with less than 90 wins so that means 72 teams made the playoffs with more than 90 wins and that group produced 10 World series winners. That rounds up to 14% So... Based on this rediculous small sample size... That one World Series win by the Cardinals in 2006 has produced better odds of winning the WS with 85 wins or less. Just to make sure no one misunderstands me... I'm not buying that either... Bottom Line... Get into the playoffs... If you get in with 70 Wins... Good for you... You can still win the World Series!!! Everybody understands the slight shades of regular season success right? Think of it this way... 15 more wins by the Twins in 2012 and they are a .500 team... 15 wins... That's one more win every 11 games... One little win... Every 11 Games... If the Twins are .500... They are 7 games out... If they are 7 games out... They may actually try to acquire some juice at the trade deadline... The Games become more important... They may be able to squeeze a couple more wins because the carrot is in front of them... Who Knows but I can tell you quite confidently that the difference between 83 wins and 100 wins means absolutely nothing once the first pitch of the playoffs starts. You'll have a hard time convincing me otherwise.

If it's 5.5 Million... Good Gravy... Let him go... Congrats to you Scott... Good Luck in Chicago... Still more FA options to consider and put a bid in for.

My Theory is just as goofy as anybody elses. The goal of every club should be making the playoffs. That's planning for the long haul 162 games to get in. You can't do anything if you don't get in... Ask the talented Texas Rangers and they will agree. Once you make the playoffs... It's not a crapshoot so much... It's game by game... Grind it out... Luck is always a part of baseball but it's inning by innning... Game by Game... Grind it out... It doesn't matter anymore what you did during the regular season. It's Lohse against Zito and it's about making pitches when it matters... Moving runners over... Key Home Runs... Key Hits... Defensive plays... It comes down to the makeup of your players when it's on the line. Look at a regular season. Any regular season... In 2012... The best team in baseball record wise was the Nationals... They LOST 64 games. Some of those losses came in bunches. That's a team who happened to win a mere 17 games over .500. 17 games over .500... Just look at that and let it roll around in your thoughts... Nothing about that percentage screams lock. .605 winning percentage... The Best team in baseball is 6 and 4 over ten games. Why would anyone assume that a team with that winning percentage is a lock. That same Washington Nationals Team lost to Colorado 3 games to 4 during the regular season. My theory... If you want to build a team for playoff success... Build a team that believes in itself and one that competes with every fiber and hope you get a few bounces but you better build a team that can reach the playoffs first and always remember that the other team is trying really hard to win as well.

Get into the playoffs... It's that simple... Being the better team in the standings or on paper means nothing and always has. The beginning of each series matchup is a blank slate and small sample size. It doesn't matter if you won 119 games during the regular season. You can still get beat in the first round against a team that won 82 games. It doesn't matter if you swept the first series. You can still get beat by the team that had to eek it out in 16 innings in game 7.

I'm not sure how to respond to that. I guess the first thing that comes to mind is WTF does Hardy for Hoey have to do with anything. The second thing that comes to mind is... I'm not sure cuz I have to keep coming back to WTF does Hardy for Hoey have to do with anything. It was a bad trade and it may be part of the reason Bill Smith is currently hanging around architects in Lee County Florida. The Royals need pitching so they acquire Santana... The Angels need less payroll so they trade him. Need is the cornerstone of all trades. I'm really not sure that you want to argue that point but go ahead.

Drafting and trading are different... Surely you can see that... You don't draft for need because your needs change by the time they are ready... Trading for needs is exactly why you trade in the first place. I have a need... Lets make a trade and try to fix it. If you didn't have a need... There would be no trades. Right? I'm not crazy here. Yes we need a SS... But we need pitching much much much much much more. We don't have a ton of trade chips so use them wisely. Why make a deal for a .50 to .100 uptick in OPS. What does that accomplish when your pitching staff is collectively over 5 ERA.

The Braves and Twins make sense to me. No matter what our own personal thoughts are about Denard Span and his talent level. I think we can agree that Atlanta would love to have him. How much would they love to have him is the big question. I'd do Span plus to get a deal done for one of those young arms. The Braves certaininly have extra Starting Pitching. Big Gentle Ben... Please do keep us posted if you hear anything.