CDog

No, this conversation is being held in the Private Section....oh, wait, nevermind.... I think your post gets at a lot of things that are different than what I was wondering about in this topic, though. My angle was to take the original post's thought that Gardy wanted more pop, presuming that a good place to do that would be to replace Butera, and then to try and see how likely this was based on what was different at the start of last year (when he wasn't on the 25-man) and the remainder (when he was). Your facts that Butera played more than "emergency" levels is undisputed, but my point was to figure out WHY. I maintain it's because Morneau moved from DH where he started the year to 1B when he returned from injury. This left Mauer and Doumit DH'ing frequently (almost always one or the other), and I believe THAT is the reason Butera was kept and played (I have made no conclusion about whether this is right or wrong, simply that it was "the reason"). My guess as to why Parmelee was demoted when he hit poorly and Butera was not: Parmelee had been the STARTING 1B. His replacement became Justin Morneau. Butera was the third-most-frequently used catcher. His replacement was...Hermann? My guess as to why nobody from outside the organization was brought in to possibly be that third catcher instead of the aforementioned group: (This space intentionally left blank)

Not feeling testy at all (which is why I made the extra point out to indicate that in my first reply). I'm assuming you meant May, not March. My point was that during the games Morneau was out (which corresponded to when Butera first arrived), Mauer basically filled in for him. Up to the point he went out hurt (21 games), Morneau played almost exclusively DH with a few (four) games at 1B sprinkled in. During the 14 games he was out, Mauer started at DH 4 times and 1B 5. The original "starting first baseman" was Parmelee and he continued to be when Morneau was out.

As a more serious reply, I don't think it's that funny, nor that true, that Mauer didn't play much 1B with Morneau out. He'd played there 4 of 22 games before Morneau's injury, and 5 of 14 after. Both before and after, Parmelee was the "every day" 1B (until Morneau returned). The position vacated by Morneau was more DH, and that was filled by Mauer initially and then Doumit. When Morneau returned, he came back to 1B instead of DH.

Did Gardy get Mauer to go along with pretending the foul tip hit his knee and then keep him from catching for a week while Mauer went paitiently along with it? Who doctored the footage to make it look the ball hit just above the shin guard? Just wondering how deep this conspiracy theory goes. (That was meant to be funny before you, or anyone else, gets all upset about it.)

Yes, that's WHEN Butera came up, but it doesn't solve the riddle of why (or more importantly why he stayed from then on). Morneau returned, and Butera stayed. Not to mention, there isn't even a direct link since they don't play the same position (the obvious indirect link is the primary catcher also plays 1B). At any rate, this question got stuck in my craw, so I decided to look at box scores to see if I could shed some light on what underlying difference in the lineup made it OK to start the season with no Butera, but made him stay once he got there. Bear with me... The first fairly interesting observation I made, was that Doumit never DH'd in the first 20 games of the season. And Mauer only did four times. Morneau was DH'ing essentially every day. Parmelee made the team out of Spring Training as the starting 1B. He started there 18 of the first 28 games. The general situation was Parmelee at 1B, Morneau DH'ing, Mauer catching. Doumit got an occasional start in RF, and otherwise would Catch while Mauer played 1B. After Game 22, Morneau went out for a couple of weeks. It seems like Mauer may have been banged up, but not fully injured as he caught Game 21, had 22 off, and then DH'd four games in a row. Butera debuted in Game 25. From Game 29 to 36, Parmelee only got three starts at 1B, and with Morneau out that meant Mauer was playing half 1B and half C, while BUTERA caught the other half the time and Doumit DH'd. In Game 37, Doumit caught and tweaked his calf, remember? So he only DH'd from then until Game 49. Game 37 was also Morneau's return, but now he had been made the 1B instead of the DH (they were heading to interleague play AND Parmelee was sent down because he started out pretty awful). What's this all mean? Well, as near as I can tell, the difference between pre-Butera, and when Morneau got back is that Morneau moved back to 1B making Doumit the frequent DH. When Doumit wasn't DH'ing after this point, it was often Mauer. It seems like MAYBE "they" felt OK with just two catchers when they had someone else DH'ing most of the time, but when the DH role was filled primarily by one of the two catchers, "they" felt there should be a third on the roster. To me, all this means it's likely there will be a third catcher if Doumit is the presumed first option at DH.

I think you'll like it. The bullpen view could be cool, and the view of the action from Row 2 there will be exciting on any balls hit out that way. I've been lucky almost every time I've sat in similar seats that there's been a play with an outfielder crashing into the wall very near me, and it's always pretty fun when that happens. Hopefully you'll be catch a Willinghomer, too.

Counter-examples are sometimes very effective! Kind of like satire. Or something. "Here's what we were telling you not to do. You see it now?"

I'd be careful about life-betting on that one. I don't have any inside info on who thought what or who was pushing things, but I do know Gardenhire sure seems to be a "proven closer" guy.

I could maybe go back and try to find some evidence on my own, but can anyone remember what changed between the end of Spring Training '12 and whenever it was that Butera came up? They broke camp last year with only Mauer and Doumit as catchers. That makes me think it's possible they could do it again, but I would feel better if I could remember the reason (whether or not it's a good one) that they changed the situation, and especially if that reason had reverted to its state of last year at the end of spring.

On the topic of whether players tune the manager out after some length of time... From the 2010 team there are FOUR position players still with the organization. Two of them are Drew Butera and Trevor Plouffe who barely played in 2010. There are THREE pitchers left from 2010, one of whom is Glen Perkins who pitched only 21.2 innings that year. From 2011, the only position player added is Parmelee (who had only his September callup that year, I'm fairly sure). And for pitchers you only add Swarzak plus two guys who got spot action (Diamond and Hendriks). So I don't think burnout of players on the roster being over-exposed to Gardenhire and his message is really a major issue.

So the "fact" that Liriano was going to get hurt (more than two and a half years later) is part of the trade, but AJ being under contract for only one year was a big surprise to both sides? I just don't get that.

I think it was made fairly clear that they were doing it for scheduling purposes to try and get him and extra turn before he leaves for the birth of his child. I feel like it's unlikely he'll be repeating that less than two months down the road!

True. I don't think that changes my point which was: The notion of Mauer hitting 2nd is in play to some extent. Not that it's likely or anything, just that there is some precedent. I don't expect it to happen. I get a morsel of hope from the fact that 2009 was a fairly good year for him (understatement intentional) and that he absolutely RAKED from the 2-spot that year, even compared to his more familiar slots.

As it's been mentioned twice, I am fairly sure the changes made down the right field line are that the bleacher seats that were partly in fair and partly in foul territory (just toward foul territory from the "Overlook") have been removed and it's just a patio area now. And from my experience with the Overlook, I like it a lot if you're in the first few rows of it, but much farther back than that creates some blind spots in the outfield and loses the "close to the action" feel of the front of those sections.

If those are your choices, I'd go with 131 for sure. 225 isn't in the outfield, though, so I'm wondering a little if you meant 235 (since the OP said you were going for outfield seats). If that were the case, my personal preference would be 235 over 131 (as I like to be up a little and it's a little more centered).

So the actual fact of Liriano's getting hurt is all that matters, and not the potential of what happens if he didn't. But the actual fact of AJ's not being re-signed doesn't matter at all, but only the potential that he could have does. The Giants got one year of AJ in the trade. How does that not matter?

I don't get why the eight years AJ has had after leaving San Francisco helped the Giants in any way.

I had a little fun thinking about the order of likelihood in that list. As BB already pointed out, Gibson winning 15 is almost certainly on the bottom end. While maybe not technically "likely," I think a few aren't super long shots. Morneau has hit 30 bombs in three of his last four healthy seasons (obviously he's older now and, you know, hasn't been healthy for a while). Hendriks winning 10 seems conceivable (Correia has done it 4 years in a row!). Plouffe hit 24 last year while only playing 119 games, so 28 IF healthy seems in play. Dozier hit .234 last year, so .265 seems reachable if he puts some things together. And my feeling is that any health issues for Mauer would be new things, which can happen to anyone at any time, of course. After that, things get a little more long-shotty. Keeping it a little on topic with the thread, I don't foresee Harden staying healthy all year, but I'm hopeful to be wrong.

Do you suppose "reasonable price" is often stated about Santana's salary in Mets' team meetings?

Should be noted that Mauer got nearly a quarter of his plate appearances batting second as recently as 2009. Obviously some things have changed since then, but I don't think it's out of the question given the likely roster construction.

I don't know who has the majority, but I agree that 90 losses lead to this being Gardy's last season. I've also been back and forth about a dozen times on whether I feel like it's right. I know I'll think it sucks if it comes to pass that way, for a variety of reasons.

Ah, I see. That makes sense.

Amen and then some.

My reading of it is he means his decisions on how good (or not good) they are and how good (or not good) their various pitches are and all that stuff. I didn't take it as roster decisions, although I would think the things I just mentioned could factor into that for some border guys that they'll probably discuss together. On the other part, I'm curious how you see those two rosters being different? I can think of maybe a spot or a few, but I wouldn't think it would be a lot.

I think some of that will work itself out with Gibson's innings limit (and I haven't seen anything that makes it really clear to me when Diamond will be ready). But as Nick said, it's a pretty interesting question if you get possibly six or seven (or more) guys all performing at about the same level as starters.