Kwak

...and Pohlad is one of them! The "liberals" as you term them pass the stadium bills as "stimulus, job-creating investments". The debate in 2006 for a stadium was not about job stimulus. Anybody who wanted a job could have one. The job creation stimulus debate was for the Vikings stadium. facts are a pesky thing It was called "downtown revitalization". Bring people back to downtown using the stadium as the hook. Oh yes, jobs were mentioned--construction jobs, part of the electorate. Target field did bring people downtown, the bars are busy on game days, and the light rail is full. Shopping--no, not at all, some miracles take more time. But jobs were an item--they typically are--even in boom times, people don't vote against more jobs.

If the Twins don't make any deals as a result of the Winter meetings there will outrage across the tundra. The Twins may continue to deal through Spring Training but they have to be able to show something by a couple days after the Winter meetings close.

...and Pohlad is one of them! The "liberals" as you term them pass the stadium bills as "stimulus, job-creating investments".

It does seem that the Twins are more interested in trading for pitching help than signing free agents. That also is consistent with Ryan's previous statement of "...thin free agent market...".

Another indication that "cheap" is not an adjective to use with "pitching". $20MM (if that is indeed the figure) won't fetch much.

Wait, what? They didn't destroy anything, or at least not for financial reasons. They traded Hardy, stupidly, but it was because they didn't like him, not because he was expensive. They brought Thome and Pavano back. They let Cuddyer and Kubel go when other teams were willing to pay them way, way more than they were worth, and brought back Willingham and Doumit, better players at better prices. The team was "destroyed" by injury, not financial decisions. But payroll wasn't a problem? Overpaid? Denver is a losing team that has neither rudder nor engine. Cuddyer was very well received by COL. Kubel definitely helped AZ and appears to me he earned every dollar he was paid. What? Are you implying the Twins couldn't afford Willingham and one of these guys? The Nathan/Capps two-headed closer? Nathan was injured and Gardenhire requires a defined closer--the Twins were stuck with two salaries to play one position rather than an attempt to have an elite bullpen to win more games. True, injuries did hurt the Twins badly--and those guys are being removed one-by-one from the active roster as their contract expires--and replaced by low salaried players. I can live with a rebuilding team--one that admits to it as they do it. I don't appreciate the facade of "we'll be competitive next year after we..."--when that isn't the plan. We were informed early on that Ryan believed there wasn't much in pitching free-agency, so there is no need to be coy about being competitive in 2013.

It is true that high payroll doesn't assure success. It is also true that teams do have a spending limit and the exaples of other teams cited is most likely also true. The difference is that the Twins ownership publicly announce that money won't be a hindrance but few other teams make that statement when they really do have a limitation. The premise for the publicly financed new stadium (Target Field) was that it would permit the Twins to re-sign the top players on the team. The implication was that the rest of the team could and would be retained to ensure the same level of competitiveness. The destruction of the 2010 team (in order to extend Mauer) was a clear indication that the original premise was false. The Twins didn't extend Mauer (with his increase) and keep the rest of the team.

The consensus seems to be: the Twins stink, and will continue to stink until they draft/develop enough young talent to resume relevency. It is impossible to sign enough quality veterans through free agency to be a playoff team.

There are people (me) who believe that Hardy was run-off of the team as well as being a part of the salary dump after 2010. I was one (and I think most others) who interpreted the Twins statement that "Target field will allow the Twins to resign the top player(s) of the team" to mean re-sign the stars and keep the main supporting cast, as opposed to keeping the stars only and slashing the salaries elsewhere to return to the status quo of salary total. Our Bad. Smith (likely) simply agreed to the consensus of dump Hardy and sign Nishioka as opposed to devising this all by himself. I don't think that Smith held that kind of power to act alone in defining the Active Roster.

I agree. He did a number of good things, foremost improving our international footprint. He got too much blame on some trades and he, unlike Ryan, was willing to make "win now" trades which fans were clamoring for for years. I like that he put Johnson in charge of our drafts although, admittedly, those drafts haven't panned out yet. Well stated--I totally agree. There are many who have made posts reviling Smith, but I think he was a GM in a weak position of power in the organization. It seems to me that the FO managed by committee and Smith was but one voice with "horsetrading" widely practiced to build consensus among all, bearing in mind that this was the Twins, not the Yankees/Red Sox/etc. Should he carry blame--sure, but there should be plenty of other names on that list and those guys are still around. Smith stated as he carried his head, "...there were many other signatures on the paper, mine was only the last one." I sure hope that these internationals he signed truly rise and shine--so the Twins devote more resources to this source of talent--especially at the expense of "veteran free agent value signings".

Hmm. I thought this thread was about Gibson. I fail to see the value in Gibson as a relief pitcher--he was drafted and developed (and paid?) to be a starting pitcher, at which Gibson has yet to fail. Shorten his innings? Easy enough--Shut him down! There was a previous thread (forgot by who?) about Gibson first proving his viability (is that the same as stamina?) before inserting him into the rotation. So, establish a training program now and carry it through ST and into the rotation he goes. So far, I don't see five starting pitchers ahead of him in the depth chart--and I don't expect that there will be five come April.

I'm happy for all of you fans that are delighted by this list--except that there are only two pitchers (20%) and the active roster comprises nearly 50% pitchers. I haven't examined the composition of previous top ten prospect lists but I suspect that they also underweighted pitchers. It seems to me that the Twins must rectify this disparity between pitching/position top prospects very soon. I too am anxious to see these young men in Twins uniforms soon, likely sooner than most others.

"...built up his durability." Isn't that true for all starting pitchers?--and isn't that what training and Spring Training Camp are designed to accomplish? If Gibson's stuff is "ready"--start him. Many 1st timers stumble,--so what he has "three options" to the minors so there should be no problem. How many innings to pitch this year? I can't say, but he could be shut down if that was deemed the right course of action--it is incredible to think the Twins will be leading the AL in Wins like the Nationals led the NL this past season.

Per capita the Twins get very good ratings, so a new broadcast team wouldn't help. The problem is the market size is pretty damn small, compared to the majority of other teams, for instance Detroit territory has significantly more people. Yes Twins territory is large in size, but Iowa, South Dakota etc are very sparesly populated, and even Minneapolis pales compared to most other cities. A few years ago the Twins did attempt to establish their own TV station to broadcast the games from, but were blocked from obtaining a channel.

Yes. We have enough evidence of this already: Gardy's Spring Training 2011 assertion that Nishioka would be a Gold Glove contender, TR's claim that Jason Marquis was a strike-throwing innings eater and on and on. We're not just a few pitchers away from contention folks; we're an entire organizational culture away from contention. It no longer matters what will happen in a future season on the field -- it matters what will happen with ownership and management. +1 Ryan was fine as a GM for a bad team, with low payroll, that considered contraction a superior option to reinvestment. He trolls the garage sales, donation centers and the dumpsters in hopes to plug a hole or two--and justify his employment. The Twins are no longer viewing contraction, but clearly there have been some poor contracts and those must be "worked-out". I imagine all other GM candidates start with "I need complete control of all staff and a much larger operating budget..." and then he is "politely" told to leave--so the same management team simply changes chairs. Soon, the "bad" contracts will have been removed (except Mauer's--but he is a special case). When will ownership change philosophy?--IDK. But probably after attendence drops to ~1MM paid attendance per season.

If the Twins plan on rebuilding through trades--start now! IMO there is no realistic scenario where the Twins are a playoff team in 2013. It would be far better to trade nearly all of the ML talent now, lose 120, and get serious about rebuilding. Consider how wretched DET was in 2003--and now they rule the division and likely are the favorite for the AL pennant in 2013. Their owner spent money--but they also drafted well, and they made shrewd trades. The Twins need not repeat the long drought of the '90s in order to rebuild for the next decade.

If another company owned the Blue Jays that figure would be substantially higher. The Jays are owned by a cable company which owns sports networks in Canada. The 36M is a figure they made up to pay themselves and doesn't reflect the reality of the situation. This is from Forbes magazine. But Toronto is owned by $14 billion-in-sales Rogers Communications, which also owns sports channels that pump through Blue Jays games as well as those of its other two teams, the NBA’s Raptors and NHL’s Maple Leafs. The company’s strategy of using sports programming to boost profits has been paying off and shares of Rogers have been outperforming the market recently. On top of the increase in carrier fees Rogers can command from its sports programming, last year Rogers Sportsnet paid the Blue Jays a rights fee of $36 million. So Rogers gets a doubleheader from its sports programming. The Blue Jays have a much larger cable television audience than the Marlins and thus star power on the diamond can translate into much more money from advertisers. It does dwarf the twins revenue, the 36 million is a fee they basically pay to themselves and really doesn't represent anything. Rogers Tv network paid Rogers sports team. They could have made the figure higher for example 180 million if they were selling the team to show how much revenue it brings in. So where they make their money is in advertising, cable company carrier fees (from competing cable companies for example Shaw in canada) and shares in the Rogers company. It's a different model. Then is it fair to conclude that the Jays "swim in money" and can easily afford to take on the added payroll from the Miami trade?

You're speculating. Unless the Tigers and the Red Wings are legally under the same business entity there is a separation, "a corporate wall" between the two. Of course the Red Wings could loan money to the Tigers, but there would be an accounting and reporting of such on their tax returns. Same idea here. The Twins are a limited liability corporation and probably have no legal connection between the Pohlad's real estate businesses. If the Pohlad's want to loan the Twins money they could do so. Or if the Minnesota Twins LLC want to loan the real estate business money they could. You don't really think the Pohlad's take their profits from the Twins and deposit it into the real estate business bank account as if it were a gift, do you? That's not what I said. I said FCF from food empire--pizzas etc. Used to invest in sports--the Red Wings and the Tigers. There is nothing about corporate entities. Illitch's money (after it leaves the corporation--though it may be in a trust) is simply invested elsewhere (sports) there is no violation of law involved.

Toronto was a last place team--but a much better team than the last place Twins. Doesn't Toronto consider all of Canada "local broadcast revenue"--thus not shared with the rest of MLB? If so, that amount could easily dwarf what the Twins collect. Sorry, I don't have a figure for Toronto's local broadcast revenue. I do think that blaming Ryan for the deal between Toronto and Miami is unfair. There may not have ever been any discussion between Minnesota and Miami, or when the terms were "add $35MM/year in payroll...", Ryan's answer was likely "Not permitted."

Why would they a LHB 1B when their RHs are hitting the cover off of the ball? Instead of adding Morneau (whose hittng statistics are overwhelmed by Encarnacion's) they could apply the same $14MM to pitching. To me this thread is a null set.

I thought the FAs last year by the Marlins was foolish, and window dressing for their new stadium. That they realized this (or maybe this dump was in their plan all along) was a smart idea. The 2012 Marlins were a bad ballclub and needed to be "blown-up". If MLB owners wanted more competition--they could simply reduce the revenue sharing (and the luxury tax) formula which would force all teams to compete to sell tickets and build revenues. But when a team can operate on a minute payroll, sell a few thousand tickets per game--and still make a handsome profit--then it's MLB's problem. The owners are the only ones that can fix this. Other threads are available for discussion of how the Twins should proceed.

So do you think Illitch simply wrote out a check from his personal (not Tigers) bank account and picked up Prince Fielder and Torii Hunter? Actually, if I remember correctly, that's exactly what he did for Fielder...He definitely told his GM to go get him, period. I think that there is a difference in business philosophies between the Pohlads and Illitch. Illitch (it appears) uses the free cash flow from his food empire to fund his sports empire. Remember that Illitch also owns/funds the Detroit Red Wings which consistently ran a well above average payroll in the NHL to support a highly successful franchise. It appears that Illitch is doing the same for the Detroit Tigers. The Pohlads may (it looks that way to me) be using the the free cash flow from their sports empire to fund their other businesses--especially real estate. Perhaps the Pohlads see greater potential outside of sports than Illitch sees (in Detroit) so they spend differently. It's really nice for Detroit sports fans, and stinks for Minnesota Twins fans. Miami (again) blew-up their team, Oakland did so at the end of 2011, but was able to rebuild stronger than ever. I contend that that is the real problem with the Twins--the ability to rebuild, not the ability to spend.

It seems the Twins have three problems to fix: a) disparity of local broadcast TV revenues, PR problem of perceived commitment to winning, and c) ability to turn amateur players into top professional players. So far, a) has not been discussed at all, only so far as adding some "value" players (which might be considered as only a "left-handed" attempt)--and those guys have yet to be signed yet, and c) an admission of "Patience, Folks, but we did draft a lot of pitchers".

I would have liked for Baker to re-sign with the Twins, but this a business for both parties--I wish him well. I am forming the opinion that the FO underestimated the difficulty/expense of three starting pitchers. The emergence of a "new" LA Dodgers only bodes to drive player salaries even higher in the near future. I fear the Twins will have to re-examine their goal of three new SPs and spend their entire (for the three) on one new SP just to ensure that somebody new (and decent) signs for 2013. Others have posted about trades, especially established ML Twins for MiL prospect(s), and Yes, I must agree with them. I fully expect 2013 season to be a rough one as the Twins will likely only be able to incrementally improve through acquisitions.

Rubbish. He competed in a division where you win 95 games and cross your fingers for a wildcard berth, and won his second World Series at age 33. I don't care how good he is. It's still the Cubs. You pretty much have to be a wizard to make that team decent Weren't the Cubs within 1 out (the famous foul popfly) of making it to the WS in 2003? A good deal closer than the Twins have been to the WS during Ryan's tenure.