ND-Fan

Your right about no improvement with this team. The prospects you so thought would be here are just not ready and my guess most of them won't be with this team next spring either. Yes we have good group of players coming but Twins have sold everyone the cavalry is just around the corner. The fact is they are probably not going to make significant impact until late 2015 and then starting in 2016 season. Also we may still not have pitching rotation yet solved yet either. That's why I think its important that Twins start signing some free agent pitching now to get quality pitching. Quality pitching signings require multi year deals and they are signed now will help this team now as well be foundation for this next wave players coming but will be ending soon enough allow young pitching talent place on team in the future. Also the Twins need to look for a shortstop through a trade that's in high minors from another team that has high potential to play at the major league at that position. This has been problem for the Twins going on for over a decade a quality starting shortstop or they need to spend some money on young free agent shortstop but that rarely ever happens top of line free agent shortstop available.

I think he worth shot at signing he still 27 years old and still has potential improvement and his style of pitching would fit well into Target Field. He would fill number 3 starter for sure for Twins and if he had some improvement maybe number 2 starter. Add him to rotation we would have number 5 starter in Correia , Number 4 starter in Gibson, and him at number 3 Starter. We also would have Diamond coming back that could be another 3 or 4 starter if he could return to 2012 performance. Then if the Twins would go after top line pitcher addition to Hughes in free agency the Twins would have starting pitching staff. With likes of Worley, Hendricks, Deduno, and May still prospect category with some possible upside to fill in spot if one above has trouble performing. Aslo we would have myer, wimmers, and several other prospects coming up in next year we could develop fair starting pitching rotation. The Twins need to sign one quality starter like Hughes and one top of the line starter. The Twins can easily sign couple of players like this not significant effect on payroll now or in the future. The Twins are going to be stocked on players from minors for next 3 to 4 years so salary is not going to be a problem with young players filling in number of starting positions. Aslo Twins have no significant long term contracts other than Mauers for next 4 years so there should be room add other players if needed to become a competitive team. What I am afraid is going to happen instead the Twins will try to trade for quality starter instead of using free agency because their afraid of free agency and commitment in doing so. Ryan doesn't want to take risks of spending money on free agency in case the player bombs or is hurt ending his career. The Twins are going to have break there traditional way of rebuilding if they want the revenue and attendance continue in near future .

That would be fine if it were not for how Twins performed. The Twins have very few players from other organizations that have performed well past couple of seasons. Then if you look at talent that has come up from farm system the last couple of years and this is why were looking at the talent that has left the Twins. This is suppose to change with farm system the twins have but I still think were couple of years removed yet until we see where the team on field has talent and ability to compete with upper tier of teams. Everyone thinks this is going to change quickly but it takes time for young talent to learn to win and compete. Go back to early 80's when Hrbecks, Gaietti, viola and Brunansky came up took them nearly 5 years to build into a winner. Same thing in 90's and I bet this will be same with this prospect potential we have now. I think the Twins could have sped this process in past two years if they had signed some quality free agent pitching and some strenghth up the middle. I would not be surpriced it will be 3 or 4 years before we see a 500 hundred team.

Here's a thought Twins should maybe trade Mauer at 30 for pitching my reason is he at peak of value as a player and Twins are several years away from competing again. By the time Twins are competing Mauer will be in decline and will be 33 year old player. The Twins could stock pile some good arms for the future. Lets face it I think Twins are at least 3 years away from competing the kids coming are going need time in majors. Pittsburg kids have taken at least three years to learn how compete and win at major league level. Were one to two years away before all these kids reach major league level. Unless Twins are ready to sign free agents now I think Twins will just waste Mauers value playing on non contending teams.

The Twins have shown this past three seasons that farm system is bare of pitching ready for the Majors. If they were ready we would have seen them up during the year. Trading I don't feel is option right now why would you trade away prospects that are needed to fill whole in this offense and defense at major league level. I think Free Agency is best bet in that can bring some major league arms that are ready and can make a impact. It would allow some young talent to develop and with Free Agents make credible big league staff. The only player left to bring quality prospects and number of them is Joe Mauer if he can demonstrate he's healthy. I think it should be looked at because by time Twins are ready to compete Joe will be way past his prime and will be declining. His value is now and Twins are probably years away from making big run in playoffs. Unless Twins spend some serious money building up the depth and lineup with Free Agency. My guess is that Twins will continue to loose as they rebuild through farm system.

Three loosing seasons you can spread blame around to a lot of people organization from top to bottom. The mistakes and poor decisions were made years ago and results of this is shown in records we experienced this past couple year. When Bill Smith who made his fair share of mistakes also said when he was let go that Twins would need to depend on free agency to remain competitive in near future but ownership didn't feel that way and that's why we have terry Ryan. I think ownership now see's he may have been right with there recent statements on free agency. I just wonder if there in for sticker shock of what its going to cost because now its going to take over normal price to get free agents to come to Twins and rebuild this organization. The Twins need to revaluate how too draft and choose pitching because in last 20 some years the Twins pitchers they have drafted were not close to being a big time pictcher. Even ones Twins have developed were either traded or acquired by twins not through the draft. With a track record of this sample size means that Twins philosophy needs to be changed. Also Twins have not had a lot of success in shortstops and third baseman this area needs to be looked at. Guardy needs to look at his managerial style too and his coaching staff wondering how to develop most out of talent he was given. It may mean managing differently than he has and not style of baseball he was taught but may be necessary to gain a few wins. Pitching coaching needs definitely to be looked at the talent hasn't been there but pitchers seem to improve when they go some place else. We can't have pitchers that are not striking people out were at absolute bottom of major leagues and yet we seem to have pitchers with enough velocity and pitches to get more strikeouts than we have been getting. Terry Ryan I think will have difficult time this coming year he's going to have stretch as general manager he's going to have spend money on free agents and even in case or two spend more than going market to get them come to the Twins. He's from old school and has patience to rebuild a team by draft picks but times have changed and money lost from not competing is to big that innovation in improving quicker is needed.

Three loosing season's there's a lot of blame to go around for whole organization. The mistakes have happened years ago and were seeing the results of these mistakes now. To turn this organization around is going to take money, revaluation of how they do things, and some luck in next few years. When Bill Smith was let go 2 years ago some of stories were that for Twins to compete he was stated that Twins would need to use free agency to build a team for immediate time. I think ownership wasn't on that page yet but I think that they have also have had a change of heart on that with reason articles about ownership. The big q

The Twins record against KC and Cleveland this year is where Twins fell the most this year compared to last year. If the Twins had same success against KC and Cleveland as last year there record would be close to 500 hundred baseball. This means at least statistically The Twins have faired better against rest of divisions so far this year compared to last year. The moves KC and Cleveland did this past year have moved them ahead of Twins and Twins moves did nothing to improve situation other than give us another top round draft pick. The Twins are betting a lot on prospects for improving the team but this is going to be like trying to fill inside straight. The Twins pitching needs at starters is so great even if these prospects makes to majors do we have even candidate that could be 1 or two starter. What we have now is collection of weak 4's and a lot of 5 starters. Adding a valid 3 starter will end up putting him up against leagues 1 and 2 starters when team arrange their pitching against us giving them advantage in head to head match up. The Twins history on signing players means were looking at 2016 to 2017 before were going to fielding competitive team to make the playoffs and that will depend on how our prospects improve in next year or two. The Twins need to use free agency to fill in void when farm system hasn't been able to develop the players they need and with current payroll that should not be a problem. Also food for thought if its going to take until 2016 to 2017 develop another team maybe they should trade their super star Mauer because by that time he probably will be on decline and his best years will have been wasted while the Twins develop a team but with trade they may be able to assemble quite a group of players all coming up about the same time frame.

Ryan is only following ownership wishes if ownership wanted to be more aggressive you can bet the Twins would have signed some better free agents. Were on plan of rebuilding that was done in late 90's and early 2000's. We as fans are in for long rebuild again with earliest we can contend is probably 2018 that's if these young prospects develop as they are being sold to us. The problem with this is that Target Field was sold to public that if they would get this extra revenue they would be able to compete and stay competitive year in year out. What it did made ownership to be leader in Mlb baseball on rate of return year in year out. John is right its business for ownership and appears to be very profitable but it doesn't leave a lot for the fan. I guess this why football commands so much more following in Twin Cities its has its up and downs but it doesn't take years to rebuild like baseball and they are willing to spend money to rebuild if necessary if they miss on draft or player gets hurt.

I read and listened to you on Gleeman and Geek. I being a fan of the Twins like look at some of statistical stuff of the Twins try to figure out what the Twins reasoning and planning may be and how they screwed up over the year. I was watching other night and I wondered what would be if Twins record be if KC and Cleveland hadn't improved as much this year over the Twins from last year or even previous couple years. The Twins record is 7 and 17 against the KC and Cleveland this year and if would apply last years winning percentages against this record the record would be 15 and 9. If you change these records around now you would have Twins with 63 and 62 just above 500 and at least be playing some significant games going down the stretch. The Twins this year fell down by not keeping up to KC and Cleveland in the off season both teams added significant strengths to their teams while the Twins slightly improved their team from last year. I hear you guys always talk about teams in other divisions but it really comes down now to if you can win against your own division to make the playoff. Then from their it depends if you get hot and lucky at right time because playoffs don't favor any team built for long haul but team that puts forth maximum effort and luck of bounce in their favor. Now getting back to the Twins if the Twins would have signed top pitcher and midlevel starter along with signings they did do they would have been in the playoff hunt. Also they would be in position to bring along their pitching prospects in orderly fashion. I think everyone answer is Ryans fault but its ownership because they are ones approving payroll and ones wanting to control payroll. Ryan fits ownership style in that he's comfortable in managing building from within and picking up bargains until they build a contender. Now for fan its miserable scenario it means several years of winners like we experienced and then decade of loosing and being at bottom to obtain enough drafted talent to compete. If you miss in the draft then it just prolongs misery. All the while ownership continues to make a profit no matter what but I would like to see where ownership looses revenue or is forced into either improving team or new ownership is required.

I worry all the negatives people were pointing out on each of the Twins acquitions is starting to come home to roost. Dave St. Peter said the Twins needed to start season better than last year but it looks like it could be repeat of last year. The reasoning behind this is that Devries and Deduno are in the real mix to be part of starting rotation and Twins management said that needed to overhaul rotation what do we have appearing that 2 to 3 could be back in the rotation for start of the season. Also Diamond been hurt, and so many of the Twins pitchers are recovering from injuries and moving here from national league one wonders how far we will be out of it by end of May. I think ryan job is safe because ownership must have been informed that they were not going to spend any amount of money this year and hope we can become contender by 2016. yes we may improve as year goes along but if were not contending you can bet any of these veterans that are pitching competitively will be traded by trading deadline. We will be left with what nobody wants and waiting for september call up. That might be fun see what team will look like in 2015.

I pretty much agree with your assessment but another factor to be thought of coulf the twins pick somebody off wire when all teams are making final cuts before the regular season. I could see them picking up reliever or even middle infielder on the cheap.

I have been a fan since i was little boy and lived through up and downs with the Twins. The things that frustrate me most is when management won't just tell the truth that they are rebuilding and tell how they are going to do it. Don't come out say one thing like last fall with the impression they were going to add talent by free agency to help compete until good young talent coming up is here and basically do nothing but fill in with bottom tier of talent and not even address thier middle infielder depth. I like the young talent Twins have and i hope Hicks can be big star this year will mean the Twins will have better year than expected. I like what Cubs management said one night on MLB that they were rebuilding but were adding pitching depth in case this group played better than expected and they would have chance to compete. I think Terry Ryan can rebuild this team but i get frustrated at pace he does it and i think the new school of sabermetrics could help them do it quicker. Gardy i think is still one of better managers if he has talent to make the moves he likes in the game but you cann't be very good manager if your starting pitching gives up 4 to 5 runs before the 5 th inning. Joe Mauer is still elite player in the game of baseball and his drop in power i think is soley because of Target field. Target Field takes away power Twins had in Metrodome and makes hitters adjust to hitting differently. I saw analysis of Mauers home runs when he was in Metrodome and compared to Target field more than half would have been fly balls in target field. I think i am like a lot of Twins fans frustrated would like to hear how Twins are going to get competitive again and how Twins are achieving these goal because if there not spending it on talent now are they increasing their spending to get player in minor league system etc.

White sox i think are probably going to have 5 to 7 less wins this year than last year. I base this on that Tigers, Cleveland, and KC all have gotten better this year from last year and assuming that each of teams wins couple more from chicago this alone could take away 6 wins. I think Chicago will be better than the Twins but right now i don't see much difference between them Cleveland and KC. Sad day for me when even before the season has started that i give zero chance and that twins will be in cellar in centeral. Also they probably only better than houston in American league and Miami and maybe Colorado in the National league.

I am a fan but sure am disappointed by Twins moves this year. With the payroll flexibility i thought they could piece together a team that would be close to 500 and outside chance of catching wild card spot. I could see this plan if we had our prospects close to ready to make it to major league but for most were probably 2 years away before we have the prospects ready to play at major league level. Older i get less patience i have for building a team that takes 5 to 6 years if everything works out like planned. I love to watch baseball but Twins may test my love to watch baseball. I hope i am wrong but i just feel were heading for 100 plus loss season and very few young players that i can watch and think things are going to get better. Am i only one thats thinking this and how can Twins organization look reporters and fans in eye keep selling us they are going to be incontention this year thats what makes me mad as hell.

The Twins history on this is classical they are going to build this team from within like they did in 90's and weather it makes good busines sense or not. The Twins after the 1991 world series drew 3 million people but with aging team retrirements and injuries they were down to poor team being filled in with low cost replacement player but they had 1.5 million draw until they turned team around in 2000's. I betting they are going to have same thing happen again your 2.1 million probably will be pretty close if they have the year everyone thinks there going to have. It could be even worse than 2.1 million because alot of the tickest may be sold but know one showing up for the games. If things are bad this year next years tickets sales are even going to be worse people will go on lark if ticks are cheap and are not going invest in tickests until this team is prooven to turning things around. I would just love to hear how baseball operations explain this to business side of twins when revenues are falling for puttting a poor team out their with money left in the budget to improved this team for the coming year. Terry Ryan philosphy of not spending on free agents and just be patience of building from within has to be supported by ownership on least amount risk to the organiztion.

The Twins don't believe it themselves why do think there are so much press on Twins Farm system. They cann't sell this team but they are sure trying to sell the future with potential stars in their minor league system. It didn't have to be this way with the room they have in salary budget compared two years ago. They could have funded shortterm replacements until these kids were ready from the farm system. Instead were left with one or two years thrown away and waste of Mauer being in peak years plus several other quality players. Its cheapest and least risk wise from business standpoint in that they are going to have very nice rate of return on their investment. I still think its going to cost them money from future revenues because the brand of Twins will not have the same value if we experience 100 loss season and could do so again in the following year.

The twins didn't need to sign the top of free agents lists for pitchers to improve this team but put much more effort into signing some of one year deals with free agent pitchers. First they had payroll fexibility to do so and even if season was a bust they could trade these pitchers for a prospect or for a player that might fit into organization longterm planning. Aslo there have been a few middle infielders they could have signed to upgrade the level the twins have. Another possibility they could have traded for SS prospect that is major league ready and would still fit with total rebuild the Twins are in now.This use of one year deals would not affected longterm goal or rebuilding and would still leave club option when this team is really ready to compete. This use of short term contracts would have left twins with a club that would have played 5oo ball and on outside chance they may have made the playoffs something for fans watch and optimism of future to come. The bottom line is philosophy of Twins and Terry Ryan is build within and be patience to get where your at. The Twins did well with this plan back in Terry's first stint as GM and this will probably work well again to building a team with least amount of dollars spent. The other side of this is what does it do to the revenue stream for club in the future by lost future attendance and Tv revenue if Twins go through dark period like last time it makes Twins brand name less desireable product to put on TV. I think this was little bit of what you saw was difference with Bill Smith and Twins ownership he wanted use free Agent market to build team in near future but costs look to risky from ownership. Also Bill Smith track record on player aquitions were poor and had shown no where of improvement. I think Twins do wonderful job of scounting and identifying talent under Terry Ryan's leadership but when it comes to free agents Twins really fall down on this because their behind on the curve. They are not using sabermetrics on prooven players to determine where they are at in their carreers but still using scounting and what they think they can be. Until they update this part of organization and start using it we are left with a team rebuilding from within waiting until they get right mix of playes to compete again.

Its already starting to sound like last year and we haven't even started spring training. We already got 4 pitchers coming off surgery and are various stages of recovery. Corneia like Marquis trying to transition to AL and even worse is he's signed for two years. One pitcher already that could go on DL from injurty. All we need now is start to have few position players injuries and we could see the Twins fighting Houston for the worst record in baseball. I I hate to say it but 100+ loss season looks like its coming.

I just posted on another thread about Nate Roberts the kid that did really well last fall in the Arizona league. I don't see him on any of the top prospect lists but MLB thought last fall he was kid that could reach Major leagues. I be curious why Twins played in Arizona fall league usually that is for talent that not to far away from big leagues and if he's ways away why did they have him play there last fall.

I have a question somewhat off topic in all the prospects list for Twins i don't see anything about Nate Roberts the kid that did so well in Arizona fall league and was talked about MLB last fall. Is he not hot prospect for the Twins and if not why did they send him to Arizona fall league usually thats for young talent not to far away from reaching the major leagues. I would appreciate some information on him and what were twins doing with him if he's not ready to move up the ladder.

I agree that these players may well turn the corner and become solid major league players but i also would have liked the Twins sign couple more pichers to one year deals for the 2013 season because with all pitchers the twins signed there's bound to be some busts because where they are in careers and health. Even if all these pitchers did make team hold back couple of younger starting pitchers for part of 2013 it would give the twins excellent pitchers that could be traded for some young prospects to help shore up some weakness in Twins farm system with middle infielders. Also signing of another middle infielder to help shore up the middle defense would have been prudent and if to minor league contract they could have stock piled him at triple AAA. The Twins could also be on track to be wild card tender if they get some pitching and play better defense up the middle because if M&M and Willingham have average to above average season the twins offense could be good enough to start winning few close games. The key is that pitching cann't be like last year where team is down 4 to 5 runs before the 3 inning. I look at Diamonds starts they were pretty much in those games because he held other team down and bull pen was good enough to hold and win the game. These young players if they all are up with Twins early it means twins have season 100 losses and is building for the 2015 season. I t will be good long term plan but pretty much writes of the season and comes down to just going to target field to watch baseball and dream of the future. It will also give the twins another good draft of player to stock there farm system. What happened 5 or 6 years ago when twins minor league drafts were such a bust.

Gardenhire sure has a challenge to get this team to be a winner. I doubt they have the horses to get it done like said above all the stars got to align and have a lot of luck. There is still possibility they add some talent before opening season. My thought Gm's and Managers are all held accountable for poor performance but why isn't ownership also held accountable by putting penalties on teams that under perform and finally where they have to sell the team to new ownership for clubs that continually loose shouldn't fans of MLB should see some accountability of ownership. They generally fans are partners with most teams because they are funding the new stadiums with taxes for ownership compete with other teams. If ownership of teams was such a poor investment why is it that they continually sell for more money than what they paid. Its just a thought that ownership should have some accountability for winning too and don't say the botttom line if that was case there are some teams that should have been bankrupt 10 years ago.

Twins sure are not putting a lot of effort to convince out of state fans to come to game this coming season. I love watching a Twins game but last year watching them on TV there was no incentive to make a trip to the cities to watch team that was playing so poorly defensively and pitching that had team down 3 to 4 runs after a inning of baseball. We would start watching a game and it was so out of hand after several innings we would just turn them off. In my mind they haven't improved much this off season pitching may be a little better but with span and Revere gone the offense is going to be less too. For a team that new it needed pitching there effort for immediate season has been D work. This team needed to improve there pitching and defense and they have done little to do this off season. They need quality ss and second baseman that can be put out there without liability to the offense or the defense. They should of taken flyer on some of the younger pitching talent on longer term basis to add future depth with young pitching talent they did aquire for the future. The new ballpark is quality and fun experience to watch a baseball game at but if the product is so poor on the field its not enough to go to target field to just watch a game. At least for me its not to spend $500 to 1000 for a weekend for pleasure sitting in Target Field unless there's some decent baseball being played and we have 50/50 chance of winning a game. I don't think i'm alone in this feeling.

I cann't agree more about what you say in this article it almost mirrors my feelings to a tee. I would like to add something of what i also think is important and its based on my teenage boy perspective of the Twins. This younger gereration of kids and fans don't have patience we longer term fans do in building a team and getting back to being competitive. My sons statement their not fun to watch when they play like they have these two past seasons and he's losing interest in watching baseball. I cann't imagine how business can risk losing younger future customers without putting forth effort to show they are going to compete. Like my son says look at football they can be one of the worst teams in the league and in less than couple years they can be competing to go superbowl. Also he says doesn't matter if you are from small market or large market team it seems they have equal chance of getting to the championship. I know this fundamental structure of baseball problem but i cann't believe that baseball is going to be the king it once was until it starts resovling this issue. But back to the Twins they need show some significant improvement or were going back to early 90's again. I also don't blame Terry Ryan for all this it still goes to ownership to what extent there willing to compete and levels of return there willing to accept short term and long term. It also comes down to philosphy of ownership the NY,La, Texas, and Boston ownership won't accept anything less than winner each year. The smaller market teams seem to work on philosphy of trying to build a winner every 5 to 10 years within a certain budget until they cann't afford to keep that team together and start over. the frustration of being a baseball fan especially from small market team. I just wonder how many fans they are creating with this newer generation for longterm time will tell.