ThejacKmp

He had major concussion issues all year. Not his fault but he wasn't available. Also, the Twins had issues with his play calling and ability to control pitchers. Agreed that Suzuki is not ideal (though he was middle of the pack on pitch framing this year FWIW) but Pinto wasn't ready (and then got concussed). Suzuki will be a welcome sight as a backup next year. Anything else will mean the Twins failed this offseason (and conversely, I'm okay calling this offseason a success if all they did was go get a decent three year solution at catcher. It'd be nice to work on the bullpen but they have internal options that are promising).

Check your dates. Yours was written 10/28, four days after he resigned. Mine was written 10/30. Its reasonable to think the Twins might have waited a few days to feel him out and arrange a phone chat. Sort of the point. The other side is that the Twins reached out to him (and you'd have to think he'd be a frontrunner) and were rebuffed. The Cubs job was there and he took it. The Twins never had a chance at Maddon but it wasn't because they weren't aggressive. That is what we were talking about. The twins aggressiveness vis a vis Mr. Maddon.

Because that’s all a big league catcher does right? No one ever doubted that Pinto could hit but he’s never shown the ability to catch on the ML level. He’s significantly less valuable as a DH or 1B. Offensive numbers are pointless when it comes to talking about Pinto being ready.

The Cubs job is a better job. Anyone would take that. You have a chance to be remembered forever in that city and they have tons of money to throw at problems. The Twins are not the Rays but they don't have the resources of the Cubs.

Unequivocally. If the Twins cut Hughes this offseason, some team would claim him and pay that contract. That is the definition of a tradeable contract. And let’s be real, Hughes would land the Twins a prospect or two. His last season was great (7th Cy Young) and teams would remember that. Even if he was awful next year, he’d still likely be worth a waiver claim pickup.

And if they did it next year, I'd also be upset. If Pelfrey has an opening day rotation spot, it's a crime. But I think you're overblowing how awful it was to sign Pelfrey (less so Correia, who had no upside). He was a lottery ticket (albeit one with a low ceiling) who got hurt and was effective for awhile and then not. Hughes would be interesting to flip last year, you certainly could have gotten something for him. The Twins do hold onto guys (though I think seeing him as part of your core going forward is defensible). Willingham springs to mind most. Hughes was towards the end of rebuiling and you can defend keeping him. Willingham cannot (though that was Bill Smith, who did not forsee the Twins sucking for some reason). People consistently keep acting like Arrieta was some given thing that all kinds of teams were drooling over. Go back and read some articles about the trade. He was a throw in guy. Tons of guys like him get traded or dropped every year because they are an "eternal prospect". Occasionally they work out. http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/mlb-big-league-stew/trade-orioles-scott-feldman-cubs-jake-arrieta-pedro-182847335.html

http://www.startribune.com/twins-talked-to-joe-maddon-about-manager-job-sources-say/280875292/ They talked to him. And if teams like the Twins don't pay attention to the costs, they end up wasting a generation of talent. Sometimes building slow is okay, especially when you have Sano/Buxton and co.

I can't find anything anywhere that says this. It basically sounds like Maddon knew he could have the Cubs job and potentially the Dodgers job if he wanted. He took the Cubs one. Never really thought about the other options, including the Twins. Nor should he. Like someone said, the Cubs job is prestigious and has tons of resources. Maddon would be the toast of the town when the Cubs make the playoffs. Most of us would kill to be able to manage our beloved Twins and I bet we'd all take that Cubs job over the Twins job. Its just a better job.

You can't lose forever. At some point you have to start making moves to solidify a rotation. You can't just suck year after year and then decide to be good by suddenly investing. I guess the Marlins did that when they won the Series but they've also flopped doing that. The Twins started to put some veteran 2/3 starters in place for when the prospects came up. That's a good move. That extension is not ill advised. It's certainly not a huge bargain but Hughes has to be a 4th starter with that amount they are paying him. He seems capable of at least that. If the Twins wanted to unload him they could in a second on that contract (barring injury or him suddenly losing all control). Same thing with Santana.

I guess what I'm saying is that the Twins weren't a team that had only one spot open for lottery tickets. Mike Pelfrey and Kevin Correia didn't keep the Twins from trying out lottery tickets. The Twins not buying lottery tickets did. Not disagreeing, just not thinking its Pelfrey or Correia's fault (both of them outperformed the meager expectations of the contracts they signed).

I did read it. You said that going after Maddon was an example of aggressiveness. I agree. The Twins went after Maddon too. Yet somehow they are not aggressive? That right there is where you lose me. Explain further?

Oh so you're saying that reputation is what matters? Because Theo has won awards he has a process and no one else does? Even great GMs or CEOs or presidents can get lucky sometimes. Your prejudices say that TR has no process and Theo does. Seems crazy that someone is running an organization on the rise just by guessing.

Pinto never proved it in the minors. At catcher you can't just bring a guy up, he needs to be ready. It's too important even for a crappy team. It's not like a crappy 3Bman.

When you're a rebuilding team you don't go find an expensive solution. Pinto was the guy they had time to wait develop, Suzuki was the temporary fix. They could have traded away money or prospects to get another catcher but why not let the young guy develop and see what happens? They can always do what they'll do this offseason if it doesn't work out. Santana was signed with an idea towards years #2 and #3 on the deal. No one expected them to compete this year but next year? That's when Santana becomes useful. Catchers signed last year: Russell Martin, AJ, David Ross, Nick Hundley. Martin signed for $82 million - no way the Twins should have matched that, especially with Pinto potentially developing. AJ and Ross are backups at best, Nick Hundley had a nice year at age 32 with no history of success. Hundley and Suzuki are the same guy basically. The point is that the catching free agent pool is rarely good and the Twins are smart enough to look forward and see that. They likely got Suzuki, who had a career year, at a discount by not waiting til other teams could big against them. The Twins will tackle catcher via trade this year, as they should since the catcher free agent pool is similar but without Russell Martin. Suzuki last year was a fine decision with the Twins not expected to compete and Pinto/Garver/what's his face potentially developing this year. That those three did not take a big step doesn't mean the process was wrong.

It has certainly been worth what they put into it - maybe not the extension but the first signing based on that first year alone. And even with the extension, the twins are paying Hughes 4th starter money the next few years. Outside of injury or catastrophic failure, he's unlikely to be a bad investment. I'm ready to call it a win. I think Santana is a better argument of not being a win yet. He'd need to be a solid #3 to be a win. I think he can do it though. So far, so good.

The twins contacted Maddon. He said no. They literally made that aggressive move. The job wasn't as enticing as the Cubs job. Or the Dodgers job, which Maddon likely had as a backup.

It also keeps you from being the team that trades away big prospects for short term fixes. With where the twins are now in their development, I vote taking their time. The twins brought up Sano, Rosario, Duffey, Buxton this season. They do their fair share of early promotions. They didn't bring up Berrios because they wanted to protect his arm. That may or may not be right but it wasn't because they trusted a veteran over him.

You are assuming Arrieta was part of a process? Do you have any backup for that? The Twins are 2 for 3 on big starting pitchers - Nolasco Santana and Hughes. They are good at getting crap to stick to walls!

That’s a bit disingenuous with Arrieta. He had made over 60 big league starts and was a ML starting pitcher who struggled. He ended up in the minors for the Cubs in 2013 for 10 games before coming back to the majors because he had stuff to work on. Arrieta and Hughes had similar ceilings and similar backgrounds – high strikeout pitchers who had shown flashes of dominance without backing it up. Just because Arrieta has reached a higher ceiling thus far doesn’t mean that Hughes didn’t have that same ceiling. You’re retroactively assigning Arrieta a higher ceiling because he reached it. Also disingenuous on the price. The only reason the Twins had to pay Hughes was that he debuted three years earlier. Arrieta still had arbitration years. The Twins were able to just give money for Hughes, the Cubs had to trade prospects. I don’t think that the difference is the price paid. Finally, with Pelfrey and Correia. They didn’t block anyone from the majors unless you count Cole DeVries and PJ Walters. The Twins were really bad and those vets kept you from pushing guys to the majors super early. I’d’ve liked a few more lottery tickets too but there’s something to be said for stable mediocrity when the other 3-4 rotation spots are up in the air between people who are not very good.

As a counter: 1) The Twins had an in house guy who they thought might turn out. Pinto has not but for a rebuilding team, giving Pinto a shot to develop is preferable to spending the large amount of money/prospects needed to get a long-term catcher. The Twins also drafted two highly thought of catchers to get further lottery tickets. 2) As a result of thinking Pinto had some upside, they went and got Suzuki for the short-term. Suzuki has been okay and is not inked to an onerous contract. He would be a fine back up next year. 3) The Cubs were expected to compete this year so they went out to trade for a catcher, Miguel Montero, during the offseason. Prior to that they were weak. The Twins did not expect to compete this year and did not trade for a catcher, trusting Suzuki to be okay and hoping Pinto bounced back. However, that didn’t work and they are expected to compete next year and are expected to do the same in the offseason. I don’t see this as a difference, I see this as the Twins being a year behind the Cubs and following a remarkably similar path. For your point to be valid, the Twins need to not do anything with catcher this year. I hope that isn’t true. TR is fine by me as far as catcher goes.

Terry Ryan traded for Liriano, Nathan and Bonser in the ultimate Jake Arrieta trade ten years ago. They have it in them. Maybe something has changed with the stats revolution but I tend to not think so. I think that teams buy lottery tickets and sometimes that lottery ticket turns into Jake Arrieta and sometimes that lottery ticket turns into Albers. You can't blame the Twins for not having the luck to find an Arrieta - yet. You are misquoting Molitor on this pretty badly. Molitor has said that he wants the Twins hitters to cut down on strikeouts, not being content to say “well guys strike out in the majors now so we should just accept that.” I think that’s laudable coachspeak for “you need to keep working and cut down on strikeouts.” Molitor is in no way saying that the Twins pitchers should not be intent on striking guys out – he’s really saying that hitters need to adjust to pitching styles emphasizing strikeouts. The quote is:“ I don’t know if it’s the mentality of the players, but they’re definitely not as concerned about it. Strikeouts are part of the game. We all know that, but they should be somewhat connected to what are you trying to gain by striking out.” That's not someone saying that they don't want the Twins pitchers striking out, it's a guy trying to keep his hitters from being complacent about strikeouts. The Twins may not be trailblazers when it comes to advanced stats but they are in no way a lone voice in the wilderness. They have continued to beef up their stats department. We’d all like it if it happened overnight but they’re not blind. They are not set in their ways and have proven it with an increasing emphasis on power pitching, hiring stats guys, shifting on defense etc.

Nope. Going into game #2, if the Astros lost their last two, the twins won their last two and the Angels only won once, they would all have been tied for the WC. The Twins were not eliminated until Saturday. See this headline about Saturday's game: http://www.foxsports.com/mlb/story/kansas-city-royals-beat-minnesota-twins-eliminated-al-wild-card-yordano-ventura-100315

They were in it up until the closing day of the regular season - that's the literal definition of where they were! Agreed they could make some moves bringing guys up for the pen but I like that they're staying a bit cautious. They kept service time for Berrios, which I think is a nice move to the future. It seems like a minor issue with the front office - the trusted the guys they had to right the ship on their own and I'm never going to get too angry about that.

Nolasco is a fairer comparison. My bad. Nix Gibson. I didn't look up Harrison and remembered a better pitcher. They certainly would have had to give up Rosario. Rosario wasn't even top 100 before the 2015 season - I moved him up to that level because of what he did at the ML level up to midseason (and at that point he had no track record where you would expect him to continue so that may be dubious). I think it's a very fair comp to what Texas gave up. And I wouldn't trade Kepler, Nolasco, Rosario, Gonsalves and two low guys for Hamels either. He's 32 next year with three more years at $23.5 million and a $6 million buy out for a 4th year that vests if he pitches 200 innings in 2017 and 2018. That could be really tough.

1) They need a catcher. They should be able to trade for that this offseason. Suzuki will then be a plus backup. 2) What position do you want to change besides catcher? The Twins have multiple options all over the outfield and the infield appears pretty well set. They even have some fun options for DH (Vargas, Sano if you keep Plouffe, Arcia, Kepler). 3) Front of the rotation is where the Twins will struggle a bit. Berrios or May both have upside as do some guys coming up. But the Twins have a good amount of depth at pitching. I like their 3, 4 and 5 better than Chicago's 3, 4 and 5. They just need to have some of their many pitching prospects be elite. Not crazy to think they could.