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  1. stewthornley

    Finding a "W"

    stewthornley posted an article in Twins

    More information about "Finding a "W""
    Starter David Paulino pitched four innings, giving up two runs. Houston led 5-2 when James Hoyt came in for the bottom of the fifth. In the sixth (after the Astros had scored another in the top of the inning) Hoyt gave up a one-out homer to Eddie Rosario and two-out single to Chris Gimenez. Tony Sipp relieved, and Jason Castro greeted him with a home run to center. Stew Thornley is one of the Twins official scorers and a baseball historian. He will occasionally provide insight to the decisions official scorers make. If you have any questions you would like him to address in a future story, you can ask them in this Twins Daily thread. You can also read more from Stew at StewThornley.net. Houston padded its lead with six runs in the seventh, and Reymin Guduan made his major-league debut. In his second inning on the mound, in the eighth, Guduan gave up a double and a walk and allowed one of the runners to score on a wild pitch. Then Feliz pitched the ninth, allowing a two-out double. I wasn’t the scorer in this game, but I was sitting next to Gregg Wong, the official scorer, who knew he was going to have to assign the win to one of the relievers. Rule 9.17( states that the starting pitcher must complete five innings of a game that lasts six or more innings on defense to receive a win. If the starter doesn’t go that long but leaves with his team in the lead, and his team holds the lead, then “the official scorer shall credit as the winning pitcher the relief pitcher, if there is only one relief pitcher, or the relief pitcher who, in the official scorer’s judgment was the most effective, if there is more than one relief pitcher.” A comment reads, “It is the intent of Rule 9.17( that a relief pitcher pitch at least one complete inning or pitch when a crucial out is made, within the context of the game (including the score), in order to be credited as the winning pitcher. If the first relief pitcher pitches effectively, the official scorer should not presumptively credit that pitcher with the win, because the rule requires that the win be credited to the pitcher who was the most effective, and a subsequent relief pitcher may have been most effective. The official scorer, in determining which relief pitcher was the most effective, should consider the number of runs, earned runs and base runners given up by each relief pitcher and the context of the game at the time of each relief pitcher’s appearance. If two or more relief pitchers were similarly effective, the official scorer should give the presumption to the earlier pitcher as the winning pitcher.” So if you the official scorer, to whom would you credit the win? A number of writers approached Gregg in the late innings and asked if Hoyt (two earned runs allowed in 1-2/3 innings) would get the win. Wonger’s consistent reply was, “I don’t know yet.” Tony Sipp wasn’t going to get it; that was clear. What about Guduan? Two innings with one run allowed wasn’t awful, but how could it be more effective than a scoreless inning, provided by Feliz at the end? Even that didn’t become certain as Feliz gave up a two-out double to Ehire Adrianza. One more hit would bring him in, and all of a sudden Feliz’s line isn’t that effective. Gregg said if Adrianza scored that Guduan would get the win; otherwise, it would go to Feliz. I agreed completely. It wasn’t until Eddie Rosario swung and missed to end the game that Wonger could make his decision. Some people criticized it and said, under these circumstances, it would make sense to give the win to the starter, Paulino. But official scorers have to go by the rule book, not by their opinion of a particular rule. Gregg is an experienced and insightful official scorer who made, in my opinion, the only decision that made sense by the rules. By the way, it is possible for a starter to get a win without completing five innings. The starting pitcher, assuming he is the pitcher of record, may receive a win for pitching four innings of a game that lasts five innings on defense, according to Rule 9.17( . The last time this happened was June 1, 2001 in a Cleveland at New York Yankees game. C. C. Sabathia of Cleveland completed four innings and was relieved to begin the bottom of the fifth with Cleveland ahead 5-4. Cleveland extended its lead to 7-4 and, in bottom of the sixth, the game was called by rain after an error (on a dropped pop foul). Sabathia received the win.
  2. stewthornley
    This is a forum for people to ask questions about official scoring. I will address these questions in stories I write for Twins Daily.
  3. stewthornley
    I gotta say I didn't pay much attention to the WBC in the past but, being involved, did this year. For promoting the game internationally, I think it's a good thing. I just don't think scorers' decisions should be a factor in the tiebreaker. I also suggested that they clarify the partial inning, that innings are measured in outs. Even though this should be obvious, it wouldn't hurt to get it in writing to avoid the controversy that happened. Also, I hope they will clarify how the extra-inning rules could affect this. Starting in the 11th inning, teams begin the inning with runners on first and second. The scoring on this is clear - the placed runners (or any replacing them as a result of an out on a fielder's choice) are unearned. For the tiebreaker, it would seem to make sense to not have these placed runners count at all. And it would be better to have this spelled out in advance in the tiebreaker procedure. Otherwise, each team involved would argue for whatever benefited it. But I came to like the WBC.
  4. stewthornley
    We have a different guest speaker for this Saturday since Dick Stigman can't make it. It will be Frank Quilici. He will be on at 1 p.m. Here is the lineup of research presentations: 9:15-9:45, Rich Arpi – Baseball at the Minnesota State Prison at Stillwater: The First 50 Years of the Stars, Grays, and Sisal Sox,1915-1964 10:00-10:30, Sarah Johnson – Baseball in France and Its Ties to Minnesota 10:45-11:15, Michael Fallon – How the Dodgers (Inadvertently) Saved Baseball in 1977 11:30-12:00, Peter Gorton – John Donaldson: Restoring the Legacy of Segregated Baseball’s Greatest Left-Handed Pitcher More details (location, times, price) are at our website at: http://www.halseyhall.org/pubs/october2016.html Stew
  5. stewthornley
    Yes, it's easier to get more out of a SABR membership in the Halsey Hall Chapter if you're in the Twin Cities area. We've have meetings in St. Cloud, LaCrosse, and Mason City, but most meetings have been in Minneapolis-St. Paul. Is a membership worth it if you can't get to most of the events? Ashburyjohn has done a good job outlining what SABR offers, from publications to the website, to on-line forums, all of which have been valuable to me. SABR got me to move from being a research consumer (reading about baseball and its history) to a research producer, and the resources SABR has for that are huge. SABR also has a lot of committees. Any member can join a committee, contribute, or just read what's happening within the committee and the committee newsletter. If anyone wants to talk more, please contact me at stew@stewthornley.net and we can swap phone numbers. For those who are in the Twin Cities, we have tons of activities. If you live in Minnesota or nearby (northern Iowa, western Wisconsin, Dakotas), you automatically become a member of the Halsey Hall Chapter when you join SABR - no additional membership fee. You'll get a monthly notice when the next newsletter is out, and it will have information on activities, such as our October 29 meeting with Dick Stigman as the featured guest. Any SABR member from anywhere can join our chapter, too, at no extra charges. I like to brag about the Halsey Hall Chapter and think it is active as any in SABR. Bi-monthly breakfasts, book clubs, research events (such as Hans van Slooten of bb-r making a presentation), outings to Northwoods League and townball games, sometimes just getting together at a watering hole to watch the playoffs or the Caribbean Series. These are all great events, and my favorite part, regardless of the event, is just the opportunity to see other members and talk baseball. We're looking forward to seeing Matt at the chapter meeting on the 29th and hope others can make it, too. Meanwhile, let me know if you'd like to talk more about SABR. Thanks. Stew
  6. stewthornley
    Download attachment: Cup_Of_Coffee.jpg Last night (April 15) Oswaldo Arcia made his major league debut and was sent down after the game. This puts him in select historical company - a Minnesota Twins player who had just a "cup of coffee" with the club. Arcia was called up by Minnesota when Wilkin Ramirez went on the paternity list. With the bat Arcia did better than another Twins outfielder making his debut this month, Aaron Hicks. Arcia singled his first time up and then flied out twice. With the glove, he did worse, dropping a fly ball in his only chance in left field.[PRBREAK][/PRBREAK] Side note: I keep the uniform-number list for the Twins and, for now on my website (http://milkeespress....insnumbers.html) I've made a note about his number. He was assigned 31 but last night wore 42 along with everyone else. He'll probably be back up with the Twins this season and actually wear 31 in a game, but I've made a notation in the list about his assigned number and his actual number. (For the others who wore 42 in honor of Robinson, I've noted the players and coaches who chose to wear 42 in 2007 and 2008--coach Jerry White and Torii Hunter, Delmon Young, Craig Monroe, and Denard Span, only the players who appeared in a game--before everyone started wearing 42 on April 15 starting in 2009.) It will be Arcia's only game for a while. Ramirez's fiance' had a baby on Sunday, and he was taken off the paternity list after the game last night and Arcia was sent to Rochester. For now, this makes Ramirez a cup of coffee player, with one game in the majors. Of course, a lot of players have that distinction--Aaron Hicks and Ryan Pressly had it for the Twins a couple weeks ago--but most lose it pretty quickly, as soon as they play in their next game. For Arcia, his status will last indefinitely. As far as I know the Twins have only one other cup of coffee player, Fred Bruckbauer, who pitched in one game on April 25, 1961 and has a lifetime earned-run average of infinity. Bruckbauer was the second major league born in New Ulm, Minnesota. The first was Elmer "Doc" Hamann, who pitched one game for Cleveland on September 21, 1922. Hamann also has a lifetime ERA of infinity. A later New Ulm-born player, Terry Steinbach, did better in his debut--he homered in his first at bat. The Twins have had a few players who played in only one game for them, although they did pitch for other teams. Mike Smith pitched one game for the Twins, which was the last game in the majors for him, on August 6, 2006. Smith had pitched in 14 games with Toronto in 2002. Matt Fox got into his first and only game with the Twins on September 3, 2010. He wasn't even on the 40-player roster but got a call after the Twins and Detroit had played a 13-inning game the night before. The Twins went through their bullpen and had to bring in Nick Blackburn to pitch the 13th. Blackburn had been scheduled to start the September 3 game, so the Twins called up Fox, along with Rob Delaney and Alex Burnett, after the game. Fox started and got no decision on September 3 in his only game with the Twins. However, his cup of coffee status lasted only two weeks as he pitched in three games for Boston later in the month. Rob Delaney made his debut and relieved in the September 4 game, giving up a home run to the first batter he faced, Ian Kinsler. It was Delaney's only game with the Twins, and he didn't get into another game until May 8, 2011 (with the Rays). Unless Arcia doesn't get back to the majors this year, his cup of coffee status won't last as long as Delaney's. By the way, I'm aware of two players the Twins have had on their active roster who never got into a game with them. One is Chuck Schilling, who had played for Boston and was traded to Minnesota just before the 1966 season. With Bernie Allen and Cesar Tovar playing well, Schilling never got into a game and was sent to Denver (although I think he retired rather than report) when the Twins had to cut their roster to 25 players. The other was Davis May, who was called up April 25, 1977 after pitchers Mike Pazik and Don Carrithers were injured in a car accident. May never got into a game with the Twins (or anyone else in the majors) and was sent back to the minors May 16. If I have any gaps on the Twins one-gamers that anyone is aware of, please chime in. Click here to view the article
  7. stewthornley
    Download attachment: 52409284.jpg This is the 9th story in "Those Damn Yankees" series, stories about Twins-Yankees rivalry by some of our favorite Twins Daily writers, leading up to the Bombers visit July 1st to the 4th. I became a Yankees fan in 1962, near the end of a long period when it was fashionable to hate the Yankees. I went the opposite direction, partly because of my contrary nature and also to annoy my dad. I didn’t realize the dynasty I glommed onto would end so soon. I was at the 1965 Opener at Met Stadium between the Yankees and Twins. Mickey Mantle started a ninth-inning rally that allowed the Yankees to tie the game when Cesar Tovar later dropped a two-out pop up. However, Tovar came through with a game-winning single in the last of the 12th. [PRBREAK][/PRBREAK]That was the beginning of the end of the New York dominance as the Twins won the pennant and the Yankees finished out of the first division eight of the next nine years. During that period, the Yankees weren’t hated as much as they were irrelevant and ignored. Wearing a NY hat at Met Stadium barely brought a reaction from Twins fans. That changed as the Yankees bulked up in the mid-1970's and started winning pennants again. Free agency hit at this time, and the Yankees used their ample revenues, giving the new breed of haters a sense of umbrage they found justifiable. Rivalries between teams thrive only when both are competitive, and the Boston-New York battles became prominent for the first time in a quarter-century. It’s enough to get some Yankees fans worked up over the Red Sox, although I think the proper response is indifference rather than hatred. The latter only elevates the rival to a status it doesn’t deserve. As for Yankee "rivalries" with other teams, they’re always one-sided. A Cleveland fan told me he gets joy blowing his nose into an “I Hate the Yankees” hanky. I can’t imagine many Yankee fans caring enough to hate the Indians. And so it is between the Yankees and Twins. Why would the former care about the latter? But, living in Minnesota, I see the intensity of the feelings of Twins fans—delaying a game in 2001 by throwing hot dogs at Chuck Knoblauch, hanging on to being robbed by an incorrect call by umpire Phil Cuzzi in the 2009 playoffs, and, most of all, using the New York payroll as a way to rationalize their distaste for the Yankees. A 1999 ad theme for the Twins was the disparity in payroll with New York. One commercial suggested that, based on the ratio of the team salaries, each run the Twins scored against the Yankees should count as six runs. I wasn’t sure how a message of “We can’t compete with them” was supposed to inspire attendance, although I wondered if the campaign was less about attracting fans and more about getting the public to support a new ballpark to produce more revenue. I say Twins fans ought to celebrate the good times, such as Justin Morneau’s two-out, two-run ninth-inning single off Mariano Rivera in 2006, and don’t get that worked up when things don’t work out. For all fans, including those of the New York American League baseball team, cheer for your team (although not to the point where your emotional well-being is dependent on the outcome of a sporting event). Don’t hate the other teams. All it does is raise them up. All teams have fans. Only the great ones have haters. I take it as a compliment to the Yankees when people say how much they hate them. Is that what you’re really going for? In the words of Reggie Jackson, “Fans don’t boo nobodies.” ~~~ For more of Those Damn Yankees, check out.... The Cuzzi Call by Nick Nelson The Twins and Yankees Go Way Back by Thrylos Confessions Of A Twins Fan by Brad Swanson Chuck Knoblauch by Cody Christie Dealing with Yankee Fans by PeanutsFromHeaven Derek Jeter Gift Baskets by Twins Fan From Afar Don't Blame Those Damn Yankees by E Rolf Pleiss A Minnesota Twinkie in King Rivera's Court by Topper Anton. Click here to view the article
  8. stewthornley
    Easy scoring call - double and two RBIs. The play was handled properly by the umpires. Bill Miller made the call while jumping out of the way of the ball, and he asked for help. The umpire manual (case book) covers this, and Miller was wise to ask for help in that situation. (As for Cuzzi, who by the way hardly cost the Twins the 2009 playoffs, he didn't ask for help--nor did Jim Joyce in the Galarraga game.) The umpires will decide on where the runners would have ended up, just as they do if there is fan interference. And this could become more common next year when replay is expanded. It's possible that with replay umpires will be less likely to make their calls and will make the call that keeps the ball in play--saving them from having to place runners. But just wait until that happens and someone gets hurt on a play that's nullified by review. That will be interesting.
  9. stewthornley
    You can view the page at http://twinsdaily.com/content.php?r=1975-The-Yanks-Are-Coming
  10. stewthornley
    This is the 9th story in "Those Damn Yankees" series, stories about Twins-Yankees rivalry by some of our favorite Twins Daily writers, leading up to the Bombers visit July 1st to the 4th. I became a Yankees fan in 1962, near the end of a long period when it was fashionable to hate the Yankees. I went the opposite direction, partly because of my contrary nature and also to annoy my dad. I didn’t realize the dynasty I glommed onto would end so soon. I was at the 1965 Opener at Met Stadium between the Yankees and Twins. Mickey Mantle started a ninth-inning rally that allowed the Yankees to tie the game when Cesar Tovar later dropped a two-out pop up. However, Tovar came through with a game-winning single in the last of the 12th. [PRBREAK][/PRBREAK]That was the beginning of the end of the New York dominance as the Twins won the pennant and the Yankees finished out of the first division eight of the next nine years. During that period, the Yankees weren’t hated as much as they were irrelevant and ignored. Wearing a NY hat at Met Stadium barely brought a reaction from Twins fans. That changed as the Yankees bulked up in the mid-1970's and started winning pennants again. Free agency hit at this time, and the Yankees used their ample revenues, giving the new breed of haters a sense of umbrage they found justifiable. Rivalries between teams thrive only when both are competitive, and the Boston-New York battles became prominent for the first time in a quarter-century. It’s enough to get some Yankees fans worked up over the Red Sox, although I think the proper response is indifference rather than hatred. The latter only elevates the rival to a status it doesn’t deserve. As for Yankee "rivalries" with other teams, they’re always one-sided. A Cleveland fan told me he gets joy blowing his nose into an “I Hate the Yankees” hanky. I can’t imagine many Yankee fans caring enough to hate the Indians. And so it is between the Yankees and Twins. Why would the former care about the latter? But, living in Minnesota, I see the intensity of the feelings of Twins fans—delaying a game in 2001 by throwing hot dogs at Chuck Knoblauch, hanging on to being robbed by an incorrect call by umpire Phil Cuzzi in the 2009 playoffs, and, most of all, using the New York payroll as a way to rationalize their distaste for the Yankees. A 1999 ad theme for the Twins was the disparity in payroll with New York. One commercial suggested that, based on the ratio of the team salaries, each run the Twins scored against the Yankees should count as six runs. I wasn’t sure how a message of “We can’t compete with them” was supposed to inspire attendance, although I wondered if the campaign was less about attracting fans and more about getting the public to support a new ballpark to produce more revenue. I say Twins fans ought to celebrate the good times, such as Justin Morneau’s two-out, two-run ninth-inning single off Mariano Rivera in 2006, and don’t get that worked up when things don’t work out. For all fans, including those of the New York American League baseball team, cheer for your team (although not to the point where your emotional well-being is dependent on the outcome of a sporting event). Don’t hate the other teams. All it does is raise them up. All teams have fans. Only the great ones have haters. I take it as a compliment to the Yankees when people say how much they hate them. Is that what you’re really going for? In the words of Reggie Jackson, “Fans don’t boo nobodies.” ~~~ For more of Those Damn Yankees, check out.... The Cuzzi Call by Nick Nelson The Twins and Yankees Go Way Back by Thrylos Confessions Of A Twins Fan by Brad Swanson Chuck Knoblauch by Cody Christie Dealing with Yankee Fans by PeanutsFromHeaven Derek Jeter Gift Baskets by Twins Fan From Afar Don't Blame Those Damn Yankees by E Rolf Pleiss A Minnesota Twinkie in King Rivera's Court by Topper Anton.
  11. stewthornley
    I became a Yankees fan in 1962, near the end of a long period when it was fashionable to hate the Yankees. I went the opposite direction, partly because of my contrary nature and also to annoy my dad. I didn’t realize the dynasty I glommed onto would end so soon. I was at the 1965 Opener at Met Stadium between the Yankees and Twins. Mickey Mantle started a ninth-inning rally that allowed the Yankees to tie the game when Cesar Tovar later dropped a two-out pop up. However, Tovar came through with a game-winning single in the last of the 12th. That was the beginning of the end of the New York dominance as the Twins won the pennant and the Yankees finished out of the first division eight of the next nine years. During that period, the Yankees weren’t hated as much as they were irrelevant and ignored. Wearing an NY hat at Met Stadium barely brought a reaction from Twins fans. That changed as the Yankees bulked up in the mid-1970s and started winning pennants again. Free agency hit at this time, and the Yankees used their ample revenues, giving the new breed of haters a sense of umbrage they found justifiable. Rivalries between teams thrive only when both are competitive, and the Boston-New York battles became prominent for the first time in a quarter-century. It’s enough to get some Yankees fans worked up over the Red Sox, although I think the proper response is indifference rather than hatred. The latter only elevates the rival to a status it doesn’t deserve. As for rivalries with other teams, they’re always one-sided. A Cleveland fan told me he gets joy about blowing his nose into an “I Hate the Yankees” hanky. I can’t imagine many Yankee fans caring enough to hate the Indians. And so it is between the Yankees and Twins. Why would the former care about the latter? But, living in Minnesota, I see the intensity of the feelings of Twins fans—delaying a game in 2001 by throwing hot dogs at Chuck Knoblauch, hanging on to being robbed by an incorrect call by umpire Phil Cuzzi in the 2009 playoffs, and, most of all, using the New York payroll as a way to mask and rationalize their distaste for the Yankees. A 1999 ad theme for the Twins was their disparity in payroll with New York. One commercial suggested that, based on the ratio of the team salaries, each run the Twins scored against the Yankees should count as six runs. I wasn’t sure of how a message of “We can’t compete with them” was supposed to inspire attendance, although I wondered if the campaign was less about attracting fans and more about getting the public to support a new ballpark to produce more revenue. I say Twins fans ought to celebrate the good times, such as Justin Morneau’s two-out, two-run ninth-inning single off Mariano Rivera in 2006, and don’t get that worked up when things don’t work out. For all fans, including those of the New York American League baseball team, cheer for your team (although not to the point where your emotional well-being is dependent on the outcome of a sporting event). Don’t hate the other teams. All it does is raise them up. All teams have fans. Only the great ones have haters. I take it as a compliment to the Yankees when people say how much they hate them. Is that what you’re really going for? In the words of Reggie Jackson, “Fans don’t boo nobodies.”
  12. stewthornley
    I became a Yankees fan in 1962, near the end of a long period when it was fashionable to hate the Yankees. I went the opposite direction, partly because of my contrary nature and also to annoy my dad. I didn’t realize the dynasty I glommed onto would end so soon. I was at the 1965 Opener at Met Stadium between the Yankees and Twins. Mickey Mantle started a ninth-inning rally that allowed the Yankees to tie the game when Cesar Tovar later dropped a two-out pop up. However, Tovar came through with a game-winning single in the last of the 12th. That was the beginning of the end of the New York dominance as the Twins won the pennant and the Yankees finished out of the first division eight of the next nine years. During that period, the Yankees weren’t hated as much as they were irrelevant and ignored. Wearing an NY hat at Met Stadium barely brought a reaction from Twins fans. That changed as the Yankees bulked up in the mid-1970s and started winning pennants again. Free agency hit at this time, and the Yankees used their ample revenues, giving the new breed of haters a sense of umbrage they found justifiable. Rivalries between teams thrive only when both are competitive, and the Boston-New York battles became prominent for the first time in a quarter-century. It’s enough to get some Yankees fans worked up over the Red Sox, although I think the proper response is indifference rather than hatred. The latter only elevates the rival to a status it doesn’t deserve. As for rivalries with other teams, they’re always one-sided. A Cleveland fan told me he gets joy about blowing his nose into an “I Hate the Yankees” hanky. I can’t imagine many Yankee fans caring enough to hate the Indians. And so it is between the Yankees and Twins. Why would the former care about the latter? But, living in Minnesota, I see the intensity of the feelings of Twins fans—delaying a game in 2001 by throwing hot dogs at Chuck Knoblauch, hanging on to being robbed by an incorrect call by umpire Phil Cuzzi in the 2009 playoffs, and, most of all, using the New York payroll as a way to mask and rationalize their distaste for the Yankees. A 1999 ad theme for the Twins was their disparity in payroll with New York. One commercial suggested that, based on the ratio of the team salaries, each run the Twins scored against the Yankees should count as six runs. I wasn’t sure of how a message of “We can’t compete with them” was supposed to inspire attendance, although I wondered if the campaign was less about attracting fans and more about getting the public to support a new ballpark to produce more revenue. I say Twins fans ought to celebrate the good times, such as Justin Morneau’s two-out, two-run ninth-inning single off Mariano Rivera in 2006, and don’t get that worked up when things don’t work out. For all fans, including those of the New York American League baseball team, cheer for your team (although not to the point where your emotional well-being is dependent on the outcome of a sporting event). Don’t hate the other teams. All it does is raise them up. All teams have fans. Only the great ones have haters. I take it as a compliment to the Yankees when people say how much they hate them. Is that what you’re really going for? In the words of Reggie Jackson, “Fans don’t boo nobodies.”
  13. stewthornley
    5-29 game? Who was the batter?
  14. stewthornley
    Nava's long single in the fifth? Wasn't my game today, but try calling that an error for real and see what kind of reaction you get. I'd love to witness it. (Same with Pedroia's homer off the heel of Willingham's glove in the ninth; could have been called a four-base error, but not by me.) Both times the guys are descending on a fence. I called an error on Span two years ago when he didn't hold onto a drive. He was farther away from the fence than either Hicks or Willingham was. The play got sent in, and the call was overturned to a hit. The committee that changed it said they thought Span was having to deal with the fence coming up on him.
  15. stewthornley
    How many points to a get for gnarly?
  16. stewthornley
    I was put on the three-member official scoring advisory committee, but it doesn't deal with appeals. We're kind of a resource for the other scorers to bounce things off, we're involved in the creation of a manual/casebook for scorers, we help to organize and lead the annual meeting we have. However, we're still subject to the same challenges as anyone else. Teams and players can appeal scoring decisions, and MLB makes the final decision on whether to uphold the scorers' decision or overturn it. This process has been in place for a while, but in the last collective bargaining agreement, players got the right to submit appeals on their own--without team approval. The players most concerned are those who go to arbitration (typically 3-to-6 year players, since free agency is an option for them although some of the veterans still use arbitration). As it was explained to us, the players were concerned about pressure teams were putting on their scorers. I interpreted that in a positive way to mean that players thought the scorers were qualified and wanted them left alone to do their jobs--as long as the players still had some recourse if they didn't like a call. This system is supposed to take the teams out of it, at least in terms of pressuring scorers. And it has resulted in a lot more plays being submitted for review. So I guess that means the scoring is no more wayward than it has been in the past. This might come across as too smarmy, but I hope it gives a look at the scrutiny we face. I know this job was a lot easier when I was an arm-chair official scorer. From the hot seat it's different. I can't just call errors all day long from an arm chair like I used to. Of course, we hear about it if we go too light and call a hit. My experience, including of when I was in the arm chair, is that the arm-chair scorers want more errors. Doing it from the hot seat requires more refinement. Thanks.
  17. stewthornley
    Might have looked like an easy decision, but the play got sent in to MLB for review. I'm waiting to hear if it gets overturned - that's the context with which we get to make these calls.
  18. stewthornley
    The error on Plouffe was for the additional advancement of the runner only. Machado got a hit, and there would have been no error had he not gotten to second. Burton could have received an error - judgment call and the scorer decided it was beyond ordinary effort - but there was no additional advancement.
  19. stewthornley
    From an old fart to an old goat, thanks for the nice words.
  20. stewthornley
    The Doumit play Wednesday in Boston was about as weird as that baserunning by the Cubs (was that the Cubs?) earlier this year. The original call was a fielder's choice because it thought it was a force out on Plouffe at second. I'm sure Charlie Scoggins, the scorer, wasn't sure which runners were out and in which order. After the game he found out that the first out on the play was Doumit, the batter, being called out for passing Plouffe between first and second. That removed any force so the second out, which was on Plouffe, wasn't a force, and Doumit could be credited with a hit, which he was. The next day Charlie talked to Elias Sports Bureau. No rule specifically covers that play, leaving the scorer with discretion, and Charlie looked at a couple of related rules. Neither runner, both of whom had started in a force position, reached his next base. The only way a batter can get a hit when that happens is if his batted ball hits a runner. Charlie thought Doumit shouldn't benefit from passing a runner, which is what removed the force, so he took the hit away and ruled it a fielder's choice.
  21. stewthornley
    I was going by the position he was in to make the catch at the time the ball came down. It wasn't a good position, and it left him in a spot in which he had to leap and lunge. At that point, he effort it would have taken to catch it was beyond ordinary. Of course, if he had been in a better spot, then it would have been only ordinary effort needed to catch it. It was the same thing with Dickerson miss on Mauer's double - although hard hit balls right at an outfielder can be tougher to judge. In other words, Arcia messed up more by not being in the right spot than Dickerson, in my opinion. This is something we talked about at our meetings last weekend. We looked at some plays that have been overturned by MLB already this season. One resembled the Dickerson play - left fielder not judging the ball correctly and then having to leap for the ball. The scorer charged an error, but it was changed to a hit by MLB. The irony - or whatever the hell it is - is that if a fielder screws up a bit (getting into a decent position to catch it and then not), he gets an error. If he screws up completely and doesn't get into a good position to catch it, he doesn't get an error. I expressed those sentiments to some of the writers after the game although I used a few words that would turn into **** on this forum. They understood though I don't think any of them, including me, thinks it's really the way it should be. It's just the way it is, something that we have discussed at our meetings and that we understand is the way MLB wants us to call it, as demonstrated by what has happened with some of the scoring decisions that have been appealed. (We also looked at plays from last year that happened like this - they were errors changed to hits by MLB.) The biggest thing to us is to have some uniformity on how we all call it. Two years in a row we've discussed balls that drop in between fielders (you got it, you got it, nobody's got it) and would like the option of a team error. That won't happen (at least not soon and probably never), so we discuss how to call it. We all hate calling those things hits, but the standards advanced by MLB send the message to us that that's the way to do it. So from there, the best thing we can do is at least do it the same way. (Meanwhile, I got an explanation on what happened with the scoring changes on the bizarre play in Boston Wednesday night. I'll put that up here in a little while.)
  22. stewthornley
    My game tonight, so you can put those on me. And, like it or not, notoriousofficialscorer outranks notoriousgod. Just check the box score tomorrow if you don't believe me.
  23. stewthornley
    No argument with what you're saying. Among my favorites is getting word that a player is unhappy about being charged with an error with the explanation, "He said, 'Yeah, I should have made that play" but he still thought it was a tough error."
  24. stewthornley
    I got a better look at the play and will change "could have caught" to "should have caught." However, I think the hit call was a good one. Not as clear cut a decision, though, as I thought it was when I watched the stuttering replay.
  25. stewthornley
    I came in late, right after it happened. Was there an argument? (I saw that mlb.com marked an On Field Delay.)
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