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In My La Z boy

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  1. Like
    In My La Z boy reacted to Nashvilletwin in Who is in your 2022 Opening Day Lineup?   
    Assumptions:
    1. Twins understand who they are: a mid market team that went all in over the past two seasons and failed (both financially and in the standings). 

    2. Ownership and the FO know that they don’t have the pitching talent or currently the $ necessary to solve the pitching, particularly with Buxton being resigned. 

    3. The team’s roster of promising young players, both in the field and on the mound, will need to be developed in 2022 in order to develop the talent and financial space to open a new window for 2023-2025.
    4. Buxton is resigned. That’s a must. So with Donaldson, Kepler and Sano still on the team, there is not enough $ to go top end on a FA SS or SP. That’s the reality. So the question for those three players is who is going to be on the 2023 roster? 
    The assignment was opening day lineup in 2022 - I’ll give you end of year as well.
    C - Garvers, Jeffers (and Rortvedt). Two are always on the team, but all three are needed through the year. All three are around at the end of the year (but one of them, most likely Garver, could be moved at the deadline). 
    1B - Kiriloff. Starting and ending.
    2B - Polanco. Starting and ending.
    SS - FA.  Lewis is not ready and the depth in the FA market is too good to pass up for solving the SS market for three years. 
    3B - Arraez/Miranda. Donaldson is moved. We won’t get all the $ back, but it’s a sunk cost anyway. His trade value will not be any higher than over the off-season based on his strong September. Arraez starts the year and Miranda gets the call early in the year at some point. 
    DH - Sano. He gets another year to prove he can hit .240, 40 dingers, and 100 RBIs.  
    INF Util - Gordon. In reality, Arraez, Gordon Polanco and Miranda all are available to play multiple INF positions (with Arraez and Gordon also available for the OF) based on injuries, rest, and in game strategy/decisions.
    LF - Larnach/Martin. Larnach starts in LF but the goes to RF. See below.
    CF - Buxton. This has to happen. 
    RF - Kepler/Larnach. Kepler gets the start but is moved by the TD (to make room for Martin, create $, and receive quality and controllable BP help or minor league SP in return). 
    OF Util - Celestino. He is defensively very strong and can play CF when BB gets hurt.
    By the end of 2022, this lineup of 13 position players is balanced in terms of defense, offense, youth, veterans, flexibility and pay. It will be ready to compete in 2023. 
    As an aside, I’m not sure Rocco is the guy to lead this team given its relative youth and the importance of the ongoing development of the younger players. 
     
  2. Like
    In My La Z boy got a reaction from sjunisu in Trade Retrospective: Who Won the Jake Cave/Luis Gil Trade?   
    I guess I am asking too much from our front office to trade the Jays Stewarts Gonzalves's of the org and not the Ynoas & Gils. C'mon man. This is why they get paid. Trade the Alex Meyers when the Nationals traded him to us. You are making my point. We seem to be on the wrong end of many of these. We should be trading the Smeltzers, not acquiring them. We should be trading the Caves, not acquiring them. I can't name a diamond we uncovered for a bag of balls. We've certainly received some bags of balls for some diamonds in recent years. The only good returns we've received is from trading good players. All of us fans with no front office experience could have gotten good returns for Pressly/Escobar/Cruz and Berrios. 
  3. Like
    In My La Z boy got a reaction from sjunisu in Trade Retrospective: Who Won the Jake Cave/Luis Gil Trade?   
    Why do you advocate for trading minor league pitchers? I'd say our organization has no business trading minor league pitchers until we field a group of 5 starters that can keep us in games. I mentioned Ynoa because he was another very young pitching prospect we traded for what turned out to be nothing. As you say - you trade pitching like Tampa - or how about the Dodgers dealing us Smeltzer. For whatever reason we've accumulated way too many 25-26 year old AAAA guys - potential maybe 5th starter guys.
    We then compounded the Gil/Cave error, by choosing to keep Cave over Wade, and here we are watching the Yankees giving Gil a starting rotation position at 23 years old. Same age as Balazovic. The Yankees see something they like very much in Gil, that is obvious or he'd be in the minors. 
  4. Like
    In My La Z boy got a reaction from Dman in Trade Retrospective: Who Won the Jake Cave/Luis Gil Trade?   
    Totally fair argument. I disagree, but your side has merit. I am probably more upset with the end of the season, no games for 6 months, and a suck year, after barely any ball last year. So many unknowns, and zero confidence this front office nails it this off season. 
  5. Like
    In My La Z boy got a reaction from TwinsDr2021 in Trade Retrospective: Who Won the Jake Cave/Luis Gil Trade?   
    Totally fair argument. I disagree, but your side has merit. I am probably more upset with the end of the season, no games for 6 months, and a suck year, after barely any ball last year. So many unknowns, and zero confidence this front office nails it this off season. 
  6. Like
    In My La Z boy got a reaction from Hosken Bombo Disco in Trade Retrospective: Who Won the Jake Cave/Luis Gil Trade?   
    I guess I am asking too much from our front office to trade the Jays Stewarts Gonzalves's of the org and not the Ynoas & Gils. C'mon man. This is why they get paid. Trade the Alex Meyers when the Nationals traded him to us. You are making my point. We seem to be on the wrong end of many of these. We should be trading the Smeltzers, not acquiring them. We should be trading the Caves, not acquiring them. I can't name a diamond we uncovered for a bag of balls. We've certainly received some bags of balls for some diamonds in recent years. The only good returns we've received is from trading good players. All of us fans with no front office experience could have gotten good returns for Pressly/Escobar/Cruz and Berrios. 
  7. Like
    In My La Z boy reacted to shortround81 in Accolades to Griffin Jax!   
    At least one Twin will win an award this year. Joking aside, this is pretty cool he got to be the first Twin to win this. Thank you for your service, Griff!
    Jax Wins Award
  8. Like
    In My La Z boy reacted to Hosken Bombo Disco in Trade Retrospective: Who Won the Jake Cave/Luis Gil Trade?   
    I’m as guilty as anyone, but we should hold off on calling these “lottery tickets” this upcoming offseason. Other teams are cashing in nicely on them, and with too much regularity, and that’s not how the lottery operates.  
  9. Like
    In My La Z boy reacted to Cap'n Piranha in Trade Retrospective: Who Won the Jake Cave/Luis Gil Trade?   
    Celestino was bad this year.  He was also a 22 year old with 24 total games above High A being told to play center field in the majors.  Look at what he's done in AAA since he's been there (where he should be at this point in his career)--.909 OPS, 144 wRC+.  For what it's worth, that's not too far off of Jose Miranda, who is the no-doubt MiLB player of the year for the Twins.
    Larnach, despite all his struggles, still put up an 89 wRC+ in the bigs as a 24 year old who hadn't played ball in 18 months.  His wRC+ has been above 139 at every stop in the minors before this year, which is better than Nelson Cruz' career wRC+.  His slump is concerning, but to write off either of these guys, much less both, as career bad 4th outfielders before they turn 25, and after a combined 360 MLB PAs is just ridiculous.
  10. Like
    In My La Z boy reacted to LastOnePicked in Trade Retrospective: Who Won the Jake Cave/Luis Gil Trade?   
    What role did Cave play in those titles that a replacement-level free agent, or LaMonte Wade even as a rookie, couldn't have provided? It's just so unwise to trade a promising pitching prospect for a 4th outfielder.
  11. Like
    In My La Z boy got a reaction from Aerodeliria in Trade Retrospective: Who Won the Jake Cave/Luis Gil Trade?   
    Gil is still 2 years younger than Ryan - 3 years younger than Barnes and Ober - is there an "eye" test anymore? How about trading Ynoa? Same mistake.
    No, these are not the type of pitchers you trade for bench players. Strotman we just got in the Cruz trade is 2 years older than Gil right now. He is the type of pitcher you trade. Not electric, not 19, not for a bench player. 
  12. Like
    In My La Z boy got a reaction from Hosken Bombo Disco in Trade Retrospective: Who Won the Jake Cave/Luis Gil Trade?   
    Gil has quite an arm. This kind of arm should not be traded at 19 years old, especially for a 4th outfielder. Not sure any of us needs hindsight to make this claim. Live young arm for a 25 yr old 4th outfielder. Wasn't wise then, and looks worse now.
  13. Like
    In My La Z boy got a reaction from operation mindcrime in How quickly we Forget   
    I guess I am ready to agree with both sides of this argument, and I'll let next year decide for me what I think of the front office. So far, I am not a fan of this front office and I am not a Rocco believer, but I was as ready as anyone to replace TR - and was just as stumped by some Molitor decisions as I am of Rocco's. 
  14. Like
    In My La Z boy got a reaction from jun in Trade Retrospective: Who Won the Jake Cave/Luis Gil Trade?   
    Gil has quite an arm. This kind of arm should not be traded at 19 years old, especially for a 4th outfielder. Not sure any of us needs hindsight to make this claim. Live young arm for a 25 yr old 4th outfielder. Wasn't wise then, and looks worse now.
  15. Like
    In My La Z boy got a reaction from sjunisu in Trade Retrospective: Who Won the Jake Cave/Luis Gil Trade?   
    Gil has quite an arm. This kind of arm should not be traded at 19 years old, especially for a 4th outfielder. Not sure any of us needs hindsight to make this claim. Live young arm for a 25 yr old 4th outfielder. Wasn't wise then, and looks worse now.
  16. Like
    In My La Z boy got a reaction from USAFChief in Trade Retrospective: Who Won the Jake Cave/Luis Gil Trade?   
    Gil has quite an arm. This kind of arm should not be traded at 19 years old, especially for a 4th outfielder. Not sure any of us needs hindsight to make this claim. Live young arm for a 25 yr old 4th outfielder. Wasn't wise then, and looks worse now.
  17. Like
    In My La Z boy got a reaction from LastOnePicked in Trade Retrospective: Who Won the Jake Cave/Luis Gil Trade?   
    Gil has quite an arm. This kind of arm should not be traded at 19 years old, especially for a 4th outfielder. Not sure any of us needs hindsight to make this claim. Live young arm for a 25 yr old 4th outfielder. Wasn't wise then, and looks worse now.
  18. Like
    In My La Z boy reacted to Cap'n Piranha in Trade Retrospective: Who Won the Jake Cave/Luis Gil Trade?   
    Cave has done himself no favors this year by trying to play hurt (if indeed that has been the issue--given the vast difference between his stats in 2019/2020 and this year, I am inclined to believe that).  When healthy, I think Jake Cave is a very good 4th outfielder.
    That said, I don't think 4th outfielders are something a team should have to resort to trades in order to acquire, and they certainly shouldn't give up pitching prospects to do it.
  19. Like
    In My La Z boy reacted to LastOnePicked in Trade Retrospective: Who Won the Jake Cave/Luis Gil Trade?   
    This is the best sentence about this FO I've yet seen written. Being generally sharp but unsuccessful (or even unlucky) isn't enough to keep these kinds of jobs, in my opinion.
  20. Like
    In My La Z boy reacted to gunnarthor in Trade Retrospective: Who Won the Jake Cave/Luis Gil Trade?   
    The Yankees won the trade but that doesn't necessarily mean it was a "bad" trade for us. Unless the prospect flames out, usually you lose a trade where you send a guy with more years of control for a vet. But were there better internal options or low value free agents? Cave was cheap, was this a cost based move?
    But the number of defensible but didn't work out as envisioned moves by this FO is certainly growing.
  21. Like
    In My La Z boy got a reaction from Minny505 in How quickly we Forget   
    I guess I am ready to agree with both sides of this argument, and I'll let next year decide for me what I think of the front office. So far, I am not a fan of this front office and I am not a Rocco believer, but I was as ready as anyone to replace TR - and was just as stumped by some Molitor decisions as I am of Rocco's. 
  22. Like
    In My La Z boy got a reaction from wabene in How quickly we Forget   
    Good comment. I do agree with Guns in that the current FO inherited a decent squad of talent. It had the makings - and up until this off season, and this year, the new FO team was on a good trajectory. We'll see where they take us from here. Need to really hit on a couple youngsters. Ryan & Ober look for real. Hope for a couple more to rise up next spring.
  23. Like
    In My La Z boy got a reaction from TopGunn#22 in How quickly we Forget   
    I guess I am ready to agree with both sides of this argument, and I'll let next year decide for me what I think of the front office. So far, I am not a fan of this front office and I am not a Rocco believer, but I was as ready as anyone to replace TR - and was just as stumped by some Molitor decisions as I am of Rocco's. 
  24. Like
    In My La Z boy got a reaction from Longdistancetwins in How quickly we Forget   
    I guess I am ready to agree with both sides of this argument, and I'll let next year decide for me what I think of the front office. So far, I am not a fan of this front office and I am not a Rocco believer, but I was as ready as anyone to replace TR - and was just as stumped by some Molitor decisions as I am of Rocco's. 
  25. Like
    In My La Z boy reacted to wsnydes in How quickly we Forget   
    I've said this in other threads of similar nature, but this FO was tasked with rebuilding the organization from the ground up and ownership has never been of the impatient ilk.  So, they're going to get the opportunity to see this through.  And they've made no indication that they won't.  The game had passed the previous regime's pitching philosophy by, so it's going to take time to build that pipeline.  I'm not saying that I'm sold that it's happening, but this FO is going to get that opportunity.  They appear to be on the cusp of that coming to fruition, so jettisoning them now makes little sense.  If it doesn't work out, then the decision is easy.  If it does, the decision is easy.  They're at that tipping point right now.  At this particular point in time, the effort is incomplete so making a decision one way or another makes little sense.
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