What Can the Twins Get For Nick Gordon?

[Fire Dan Gladden]

Baseball windows tend to be pretty small for players.  Luck and injuries can unfortunately play a huge role in that.

Gordon underperformed for so long in the minors.  When he finally got a long look, he had some success.  The horrid start to 2023 with the season ending injury, allowed Wallner and Julien to bypass him.  I believe Gordon's window with the Twins is all but closed.  I anticipate he will be tendered and signed, but ultimately moved before the 2024 season starts.

[Linus]

19 minutes ago, Jeff K said:

I can't see Castro getting optioned.  he is younger, has greater positional flexibility and is coming off of a strong year.  And he appears to be a better fielder.

I don’t disagree that Castro is the better player but that’s really not the point. The difference between the two isn’t huge and optioning Castro for a short period of time allows the Twins to keep both which the FO loves to do. 

[DJL44]

I'm not sure what Nick Gordon does better than anyone else on the roster. That's why I have trouble figuring out his role on the team. It's fine to have guys around for depth that are just depth but usually you stash them in AAA.

[JD-TWINS]

16 hours ago, palmspringstwinsfan said:

I’d suggest next year’s outfield starts with Buxton, Martin, Wallner, Gordon and Castro (of/inf) after Kepler is traded for pitching. Then we’ll see. 

What happens if Buxton isn’t healthy (about 60% chance is my estimation) & Martin & Gordon aren’t hitting by late April. Grim!!

I like to be positive here but the above scenario is very possible ……I can’t trade Kepler until somebody is pushing him out with their bat - not just an ability to catch a fly ball. I realize Kepler sucked for 2 yrs plus but he seems (over most of 4 months) to have found himself in ‘23.

Gordon, with Castro - Wallner - Buxton - Kepler & Martin in the wings in St Paul with options makes more sense.

Could trade Gordon with a cluster of other guys, i.e. Winder - Rodriguez - Festa to Brewers for Devin Williams? or with whoever for whoever - he needs to be lumped with other guys to bring back value……… Larnach becomes opening day 5th outfielder.

[saviking]

Castro, I believe, is a better defender and is coming off possibly a breakout season, but the fact he is a switch hitter puts the nail in the coffin. We are loaded with left-handed bats.

[stringer bell]

5 hours ago, Fezig said:

One MN Twins to win two world series was Al Newman. A light hitting utility player who played multiple positions and filled in more than adequately. He was a great clubhouse presence and the Twins relied on him filling him many times during his time here. I don't see a reason why Nick Gordon couldn't be that guy if he comes in at a $1 mil a season. Seems like a steal. 

Newman was a capable shortstop. Gordon is not. 

[umterp23]

Left handed batter and doesn't have a strong arm to play OF, doesn't draw walks consistently and isn't a great baserunner. Don't see a fit

 

[jmlease1]

2 hours ago, Linus said:

I don’t disagree that Castro is the better player but that’s really not the point. The difference between the two isn’t huge and optioning Castro for a short period of time allows the Twins to keep both which the FO loves to do. 

Castro was too integral to the team last season for them to option him in favor of a more limited player. And if Farmer gets moved, he's also the only backup SS they realistically have. the 26-man roster is very tight right now unless the Twins suddenly have a change in philosophy and start carrying only 12 pitchers (which is something I think they should consider, frankly; having 2 pitchers that only get used once a week is a redundancy they maybe can't afford; there were stretches were a guy like Winder or sands was on the roster but only threw once every 10-14 days).

I agree the FO doesn't like to give a away a player for nothing, and would rather exercise options when they can...but Castro is just ahead of Gordon on the depth chart now. Moreover, I think they increasingly see him as an OF rather than an INF, which means they'd need to be finding room for a 5th OF, since he's not going to take Kepler or Wallner's spot, unless they seriously think he can be the primary backup to Buxton in CF...which seems unlikely.

[arby58]

20 hours ago, Doctor Gast said:

If Nick hadn't broken his bone, Castro would have been stuck in AAA & not able to shine & probably let go. But the rest is history. I like Gordon is liked by the team but Castro is more needed & ranks over Gordon. 

Gordon was hitting .176 with a .503 OPS through 91 at bats before the broken bone - it's not as if he was assured of a roster spot. Yes, he had a nice 2022, but he's got 696 career at bats, a .685 OPS and a 92 OPS+. I wouldn't expect much in return for him but agree they might as well see what they can get.

[arby58]

3 hours ago, Linus said:

I don’t disagree that Castro is the better player but that’s really not the point. The difference between the two isn’t huge and optioning Castro for a short period of time allows the Twins to keep both which the FO loves to do. 

The Twins have lots of players with positional flexibility. The issue is whether you need two 'Swiss Army Knife' players. If Gordon were particularly good at any one thing, maybe - but he's not particularly fast, doesn't have a strong arm, isn't going to hit for power, and was really poor offensively last year before he got hurt. I'm not seeing the case for him making a 26 man roster.

[arby58]

19 hours ago, Linus said:

In my view trading him now would yield little or nothing. I would rather hang on to him and see if 2022 reappears. The way our FO hates to give up assets I wouldn’t be shocked if they optioned Castro and let it play out. Something would happen early on in the season to make the decision easy whether it is injury poor play etc. 

I don't understand the business logic of cutting loose a player who plays the same set of positions, is faster, better defensively, hits for more power, and had a far better year than Gordon last year. This strikes me as too cute by half.

[Linus]

Just now, arby58 said:

I don't understand the business logic of cutting loose a player who plays the same set of positions, is faster, better defensively, hits for more power, and had a far better year than Gordon last year. This strikes me as too cute by half.

You wouldn’t be cutting him loose. You would option him to St Paul and recall him at the first injury. If you read what I posted I never said Gordon was the better player - he’s not. And that’s not the point. The point is this FO loves to hang onto players if at all possible. This is a way they could do it. I’m not endorsing the move rather making an observation of the player decision making tendencies of the FO. 

[Fatbat]

15 minutes ago, arby58 said:

I don't understand the business logic of cutting loose a player who plays the same set of positions, is faster, better defensively, hits for more power, and had a far better year than Gordon last year. This strikes me as too cute by half.

Even tho Castro has options, so does Larnach and other players. You don’t stash them in AAA just to play other guys that don't have options.  The best players make the varsity club to make the best team possible.  The only way Gordon makes to opening day roster is if he is crushing it in spring training and there is at least 1 key player injured that he can cover for.  There are also at least 2-4 guys right behind him in AAA already trying to take his spot on the 26 man. 

[Doctor Gast]

1 hour ago, arby58 said:

Gordon was hitting .176 with a .503 OPS through 91 at bats before the broken bone - it's not as if he was assured of a roster spot. Yes, he had a nice 2022, but he's got 696 career at bats, a .685 OPS and a 92 OPS+. I wouldn't expect much in return for him but agree they might as well see what they can get.

Gordon lack of production in the beginning of '23 was an extention of their experiment of trying to play Gordon in INF. Often FO overlook poor production if it's their idea & good production from someone like Castro.

[LA VIkes Fan]

The only reasons to get rid of Gordon before ST is if there's a decent trade return on a trade he can be a part of or to save the $1m expected arb salary. I doubt if the trade exists unless he's part of a package and I have to think the hope that his 2022 performance was real is worth $1m contract. I say we keep him through ST, see if his performance reverts to 2022 and/or there's a need based upon an injury or trade of someone else.  We can probably trade him at the end of ST to lose the contract and it shouldn't be a huge deal even if we have to DFA him then in the hope he goes to St. Paul. 

[High heat]

I’m guessing Gordon is being held onto as a CF floor.  In car all other CF options dry up and sign elsewhere or trades don’t emerge you can go with Gordon in CF to start the yr.

 

If we sign or trade for one Gordon is a easy likely option to cut off the 40 man to make room.

[Bigfork Twins Guy]

I think his value is too low right now to trade him.  Pick up his 1MM option and see what he can provide in ST.  If Castro, and other competitors at his position(s) are all healthy in ST, possibly they can work out a trade at that time.  If he excels in ST, make room for him on the roster and hopefully he will build value and you can trade him at the deadline.

[Mike Sixel]

21 hours ago, Hosken Bombo Disco said:

Unfortunately, the time to trade Gordon was many offseasons ago, when he was still a prospect. Probably prior to the 2018 season when he was coming off a solid season at AA. Good kid, though.

Not relevant now, thought, right? We are talking about now?

[Shaitan]

8 hours ago, SteveLV said:

Minimal trade value.

More value--IMO--to go into Spring Training and let the chips fall as they will.  Injuries, slumps, other trades could all impact his value to the Twins' roster in 2024.  He may continue to blossom and make the roster at a very economical price.

This.

He seems buried on the depth chart by now. But there will be 3 injuries before we know it...If not, let the DFA system work itself out. Maybe they work out a post-DFA trade for something minimal.

[Shaitan]

8 hours ago, JD-TWINS said:

What happens if Buxton isn’t healthy (about 60% chance is my estimation) & Martin & Gordon aren’t hitting by late April. Grim!!

Well, given that the offensive expectations of a league average CF hitting is basically Michael Taylor, they'd have to really not be hitting.

But I agree, I'd prefer a starter-on-a-bad-team, Taylor-level insurance policy in CF again. 

[Major League Ready]

Is my memory off because I could swear last off-season there were a lot of people praising Gordon and calling for him to be the starting LFer?

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

28 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Not relevant now, thought, right? We are talking about now?

aren't we always..

The decisions we make today may have impacts 2, 4, 6 years down the road. Sometimes big impacts. I guess that's the type of thing I am looking for. It's fun for me as a fan to follow a prospect or storyline over the course of many seasons, trying to see down the road and see what happens along the way, instead of just focusing on the right now.

[IndianaTwin]

19 hours ago, Parfigliano said:

Is that scrambled egg on that?

I saw it as chips, which I think is disgusting on a burger.

Then again, I thought the same about putting mac and cheese on a burger until I had it at a roadhouse on Highway 81 in South Dakota. Boy was I wrong.

Though I have strong opinions on many things, I don't on Gordon. He seems too far down the pecking order to be of much value, and I don't see him having much value to other teams, though he might turn into the next Akil Baddoo. Though not an issue now, I suspect Gordon's roster spot will be of more value later in the winter than he is. 

[arby58]

7 hours ago, Linus said:

You wouldn’t be cutting him loose. You would option him to St Paul and recall him at the first injury. If you read what I posted I never said Gordon was the better player - he’s not. And that’s not the point. The point is this FO loves to hang onto players if at all possible. This is a way they could do it. I’m not endorsing the move rather making an observation of the player decision making tendencies of the FO. 

It's still cute by half. You don't do this to players who performed well for you the prior year. It creates ill will you do not need with players you are going to need.

[arby58]

6 hours ago, LA VIkes Fan said:

The only reasons to get rid of Gordon before ST is if there's a decent trade return on a trade he can be a part of or to save the $1m expected arb salary. I doubt if the trade exists unless he's part of a package and I have to think the hope that his 2022 performance was real is worth $1m contract. I say we keep him through ST, see if his performance reverts to 2022 and/or there's a need based upon an injury or trade of someone else.  We can probably trade him at the end of ST to lose the contract and it shouldn't be a huge deal even if we have to DFA him then in the hope he goes to St. Paul. 

Leverage decreases as you approach the fulcrum. Every team will know that Gordon is out of options, so thinking you'll just wait until late in spring training to decide means you are left with the options of keeping him on the roster or waiving him. If there is something to get for him, you have to do it sooner rather than later.

[JD-TWINS]

2 hours ago, Major League Ready said:

Is my memory off because I could swear last off-season there were a lot of people praising Gordon and calling for him to be the starting LFer?

I was behind his .272 BA - defensive uptick in CF - 28 doubles & 9 HR all in just over 400 AB’s…….almost every day. Stuff happens.

Miranda’s expectations to be a key piece in the core of our line-up were strong last spring. I hardly have given him a thought since July 1. Stuff happens

 Castro has stepped up - decent CF with a big arm - steals bases - tough to displace!

Solano had a better year than we expected from Miranda for $2M.

Trams evolve & move on with guys that are performing.

[Shaitan]

14 minutes ago, arby58 said:

Leverage decreases as you approach the fulcrum. Every team will know that Gordon is out of options, so thinking you'll just wait until late in spring training to decide means you are left with the options of keeping him on the roster or waiving him. If there is something to get for him, you have to do it sooner rather than later.

You aren't wrong, but you are debating the value of the rookie league wild card player TBA you'll get in return, basically. You get an 18 year old or a 20 year old.

Other teams already know he's in a roster crunch and at peak value he isn't worth much in a trade. I think the difference here is negligible.

[Parfigliano]

7 minutes ago, JD-TWINS said:

I was behind his .272 BA - defensive uptick in CF - 28 doubles & 9 HR all in just over 400 AB’s…….almost every day. Stuff happens.

Miranda’s expectations to be a key piece in the core of our line-up were strong last spring. I hardly have given him a thought since July 1. Stuff happens

 Castro has stepped up - decent CF with a big arm - steals bases - tough to displace!

Solano had a better year than we expected from Miranda for $2M.

Trams evolve & move on with guys that are performing.

The only one they have that steals bases.

[Linus]

2 hours ago, arby58 said:

It's still cute by half. You don't do this to players who performed well for you the prior year. It creates ill will you do not need with players you are going to need.

Teams make roster decisions based on available options or no options all the time.  Ask Bailey Ober if he liked starting out in St Paul last year.   

[Cris E]

Gordon's only potential value to any team is if he can be made into a functional CF, and the Twins would want to do that in St Paul. Alas for Gordon it may be that the plan is to make Martin a functional CF in St Paul and the innings pinch might not work for him.

They need to find someone who is short a CF and has the time and roster space to create one.  I'm thinking the Jazz Chisolm Experiment in MIA is worth reconsidering, for example.  But there's nothing for him in MN.  He got a great shot in 22 because of injuries to others, and he missed his shot in 23 because of injuries to himself. The history of baseball is littered with the careers of guys who watched their window close due to injury and Gordon might end up being one.  He seems like a likeable guy so it's a bummer, but it's hardly a new story.  Send him out asap to get him as good a shot as possible while he's still young, but they shouldn't expect much of anything back.