Should the Twins Try to Pull Off an Early Trade?

[TwinsDr2021]

2 minutes ago, Vanimal46 said:

Gallo yes, Thielbar yes, Stewart I suppose if he has real value, and Gray yes if he won’t sign a short extension. Polanco I would struggle with trading because he is one of the only visible leaders in the clubhouse. 

Well trading those 3 you don't have to worry about getting anybody that requires a 40 man spot. (Gray maybe)

[Dman]

I think the Twins will wait until closer to the deadline before they make any trades.  They need Kepler to build back some value and if Pagan keeps pitching well they could likely get something for him as well.  I also think that later this month once the Guardians or White Sox have reeled in the Twins and the Central teams are below .500 that it will be apparent they can't compete with the better teams in the league.  It will make more sense to look hard at what vets to keep and what ones to trade.  

[lukeduke1980]

Buxton, Correa, Miranda need to figure it out by year end or start over.

[chpettit19]

I'm a no on this. Not because I don't think they need to make changes, but because if they're going to make changes I want them to be big changes, and I don't think this FO deserves the chance to make the big changes.

This organization is in a tough spot. Correa and Buxton were/are supposed to be the foundation on which this offense is built. If they're bad, and they're terrible right now, this org is going to have a near impossible time scoring. It's really hard to replace your 3/4 hitters in the middle of a season when they turn into bench production bats.

Tying back to this FO being allowed to make big changes, they're in "win now" mode. This FO had a plan, and have attempted to execute it. If they failed they shouldn't be allowed to be the ones to hit the reset button. If you're going to trade Gray and/or Polanco types you can't let this FO be the ones to do it. But you're not plucking a top guy from the Rays, Dodgers, Astros, whoever in the middle of the season to come in and make those big moves. 

This team needs to figure things out on their own. There's no magic trade to save them. Put the "young" guys in there and let them sink or swim. Don't trade prospects to try to make up for refusing to DFA Kepler, Correa, and Buxton being bad, and refusing to start Jeffers over Vazquez. Allowing this FO to try to save their jobs by putting any sort of dent in the farm system would be a mistake.

[MGM4706]

Biggest move I would make? Hitting Coach!! Rowson had everyone hitting with the Bomba Squad. Our guy has not fixed one player since he got here!! Send him packing!!

[chpettit19]

12 minutes ago, MGM4706 said:

Biggest move I would make? Hitting Coach!! Rowson had everyone hitting with the Bomba Squad. Our guy has not fixed one player since he got here!! Send him packing!!

While I'm not opposed to a hitting coach change, can we stop pretending hitting coaches are some magical fix to things? Rowson is brought up weekly around here. After he left MN he went to Miami who had a terrible offense while he was there. He's now the hitting coach in Detroit. They have scored the fewest runs in all of baseball this year. Hitting coaches can't turn bad hitters into good ones. Their influence is marginal. It's why the average tenure of an MLB hitting coach is less than 3 years. You'd think if they were out there fixing guys left and right teams would hold onto them like gold. Instead they get fired less than 3 years after they get hired.

[Mike h]

Replacing one player, say Kepler, isn't going to fix anything. It's the entire hitting roster that needs fixing. It's a cliche, but you can't fire the whole team. So fire the manager, and let the new manager bring in his own coaches.

[Mike Sixel]

28 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

I'm a no on this. Not because I don't think they need to make changes, but because if they're going to make changes I want them to be big changes, and I don't think this FO deserves the chance to make the big changes.

This organization is in a tough spot. Correa and Buxton were/are supposed to be the foundation on which this offense is built. If they're bad, and they're terrible right now, this org is going to have a near impossible time scoring. It's really hard to replace your 3/4 hitters in the middle of a season when they turn into bench production bats.

Tying back to this FO being allowed to make big changes, they're in "win now" mode. This FO had a plan, and have attempted to execute it. If they failed they shouldn't be allowed to be the ones to hit the reset button. If you're going to trade Gray and/or Polanco types you can't let this FO be the ones to do it. But you're not plucking a top guy from the Rays, Dodgers, Astros, whoever in the middle of the season to come in and make those big moves. 

This team needs to figure things out on their own. There's no magic trade to save them. Put the "young" guys in there and let them sink or swim. Don't trade prospects to try to make up for refusing to DFA Kepler, Correa, and Buxton being bad, and refusing to start Jeffers over Vazquez. Allowing this FO to try to save their jobs by putting any sort of dent in the farm system would be a mistake.

This. Buxton and CC not hitting at all (and Buck not playing CF) is a killer. It is almost impossible to recover from this problem. Until/unless/if those two start hitting, everything else is nibbling around the edges. Other than Kepler being DFA (for Wallner, who I'm willing to roll the dice on all year to see what he's got), I'm not sure what I'd do (I'd likely IL CC and call up Julien, put Farmer at SS and Julien at DH)

IF they are around .500 or worse at the deadline, I'm selling Gray and Polanco. Lee or Severino are the 2B of the future (maybe others like Martin if he's healthy). I'm likely keeping Stewart, but if they can get a real prospect for him, I'm dealing him also.

I can't imagine one scenario I like where they deal a prospect for a legit OF at this point (maybe, maybe, maybe Miranda for a legit OF, but who's doing that?).

[Dr Katz]

Cant believe the Twins are now a team of 'Sanos', strikeouts galore, not even fun to watch anymore. Doesnt any player have control of the strike zone anymore, coaches and the manager must not have control of the players either. Ridiculous! 

[Fire Dan Gladden]

I had to stop reading the comments about halfway through.  As usual, only extreme things will satisfy:

1) I don't know how anybody can complain about being in 1st place in your division.  The Twins aren't in another division, they are in the Central.  They are currently a playoff team with a top-end pitching staff.  Pitching is what wins in the playoffs.

2) Questions are justified about the hitting approach, but to blame to FO for this current situation is not justified.  Catcher, Shortstop (yes, a re-sign), and basically the entire bench were upgraded this offseason.  The fact that most of the roster is underperforming is ultimately on the players. 

3)  I don't want to hear about Steer, Arraez, or Cano.  Steer would never have supplanted Kiriloff in MN. Arraez is currently having an MLB-historic, career-type season.  Cano was terrible in MN and needed a fresh start.  Nobody saw these things coming, including the teams that received them..

3) There may be things we don't know impacting performance.  Buxton is DHing for a reason.  Is Correa playing hurt?

4) Regardless of what is happening in the minors, Julien, Garlick, Miranda and Lewis are not exactly tearing it up with the big club this year.  Why would you throw all of them into the fire when this team is fighting for a division crown?  Wallner will get more opportunities as this year progresses, maybe he will stick.

I would be open to trades, but who would you trade and what would you expect back in return?  The Twins should not move any of their current pitching prospects, and the other prospects are not performing.  They will not get much for anybody right now.
 

[chpettit19]

8 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

This. Buxton and CC not hitting at all (and Buck not playing CF) is a killer. It is almost impossible to recover from this problem. Until/unless/if those two start hitting, everything else is nibbling around the edges. Other than Kepler being DFA (for Wallner, who I'm willing to roll the dice on all year to see what he's got), I'm not sure what I'd do (I'd likely IL CC and call up Julien, put Farmer at SS and Julien at DH)

IF they are around .500 or worse at the deadline, I'm selling Gray and Polanco. Lee or Severino are the 2B of the future (maybe others like Martin if he's healthy). I'm likely keeping Stewart, but if they can get a real prospect for him, I'm dealing him also.

I can't imagine one scenario I like where they deal a prospect for a legit OF at this point (maybe, maybe, maybe Miranda for a legit OF, but who's doing that?).

I can understand the whole "we need depth" thing in general, but keeping Kepler around doesn't seem to be about that since they continue to hit him leadoff, or the 6 hole. I don't see any defense for not DFAing him and giving Wallner a shot. I'm not a huge Wallner believer as I think the swing and miss, and lack of defense, will lead to him being just another guy, but there's a chance he's really good. We know Kepler isn't. They picked Wallner early for a reason. Time to let him sink or swim.

I'm not a fan of trading Polanco, unless they know his legs are just going to keep getting worse and worse, and he isn't himself anymore. I don't see anyone outside of Lewis or Lee who have a real shot at out playing him, and I don't see Lee being ready this year. I'd like to see Polanco's option picked up for next year, unless they're really blowing things up. But, even then, I'd pick up the option and trade him in the offseason when a new regime is running things.

But I don't know how this team succeeds without Buxton and Correa figuring things out.

[Mike Sixel]

10 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

I can understand the whole "we need depth" thing in general, but keeping Kepler around doesn't seem to be about that since they continue to hit him leadoff, or the 6 hole. I don't see any defense for not DFAing him and giving Wallner a shot. I'm not a huge Wallner believer as I think the swing and miss, and lack of defense, will lead to him being just another guy, but there's a chance he's really good. We know Kepler isn't. They picked Wallner early for a reason. Time to let him sink or swim.

I'm not a fan of trading Polanco, unless they know his legs are just going to keep getting worse and worse, and he isn't himself anymore. I don't see anyone outside of Lewis or Lee who have a real shot at out playing him, and I don't see Lee being ready this year. I'd like to see Polanco's option picked up for next year, unless they're really blowing things up. But, even then, I'd pick up the option and trade him in the offseason when a new regime is running things.

But I don't know how this team succeeds without Buxton and Correa figuring things out.

As for Polanco.....they aren't winning with this team, IMO. I'm in blow it up mode, and he has real value, hopefully. Varland, Ober, Lopez, Ryan is a good staff for several years. They need to fix the hitting across the team, and I'm more interested in next year and the following years at this point. 

Again, nothing REALLY MATTERS unless Buck and CC hit.

[chpettit19]

4 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

As for Polanco.....they aren't winning with this team, IMO. I'm in blow it up mode, and he has real value, hopefully. Varland, Ober, Lopez, Ryan is a good staff for several years. They need to fix the hitting across the team, and I'm more interested in next year and the following years at this point. 

Again, nothing REALLY MATTERS unless Buck and CC hit.

That's fair, just not the strategy I'd take. I just don't see them being able to get someone better for next year, or the year after even, than good Polanco. They have holes all over the lineup that need to be filled. I don't see adding another hole by trading Polanco as something that leads to fewer holes in the lineup in the near future.

If you're blowing it up for 2 or 3 years down the road it's a different conversation. And at that point I'm asking Buxton to waive his no trade, and moving both him and C4 as well.

[Mike Sixel]

Just now, chpettit19 said:

That's fair, just not the strategy I'd take. I just don't see them being able to get someone better for next year, or the year after even, than good Polanco. They have holes all over the lineup that need to be filled. I don't see adding another hole by trading Polanco as something that leads to fewer holes in the lineup in the near future.

If you're blowing it up for 2 or 3 years down the road it's a different conversation. And at that point I'm asking Buxton to waive his no trade, and moving both him and C4 as well.

I'd move both of those if I could at this point. If Buck is only a DH, I'm ready to move on completely. CC? I don't know....but that foot might be the issue here. 

[Major League Ready]

2 hours ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

I see little to no chance of this happening unless ownership agrees and guarantees this FO their job. (Huge mistake).

They already did the trade away players for prospects and all it has gotten is two playoff sweeps and the last two terrible years and what is happening this year.

I have little to no faith in this front office to rebuild again, and besides Polanco who are they going to trade? Gallo, Thielbar, Stewart and Gray? And in reality they can't take guys back in trades that require 40 man roster spots.

This FO doesn't deserve another tear down with the trades and money they have spent. (By the way I agreed with the Correa signing and the Pablo and Gray trades, not the Gallo or Solano signings)

This FO is stuck between a rock and a hard space, not really good enough (and probably don't have the prospects) to go out and improve this team, but not bad enough and don't have the players to trade and rebuild, unless they are going to give up on Larnach and Miranda)

What they need to do is DFA Kepler and fire Rocco and hope this shakes up Polanco, Correa and Buxton to get back to being themselves and the new faces find something in Larnach and Miranda to get back on schedule.

This acceptance of mediocrity is pathetic, sickening and all the other adjectives.

 

Selling in a given season does not equate to a tear down.    Did they go into a rebuild when they traded Cruz for Joe Ryan?

They could trade expiring players in Gallo / Kepler / Solano and Maeda.  Mahle is coming off at the end of the year as well so that's five 40 man spots going away.  They could also trade Polanco and play Castro or Farmer or Julien at 2B.  They could trade Gray if the offer was good enough. 

[chpettit19]

1 minute ago, Mike Sixel said:

I'd move both of those if I could at this point. If Buck is only a DH, I'm ready to move on completely. CC? I don't know....but that foot might be the issue here. 

And this brings us back full circle to "if they're bad they're not worth much anyways," and we wouldn't want/need/whatever to trade them if they were good because the team would most likely be in a much better place in the standings. Those 2 really need to figure their stuff out. The entire franchise is really relying on it.

[Mike Sixel]

6 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

And this brings us back full circle to "if they're bad they're not worth much anyways," and we wouldn't want/need/whatever to trade them if they were good because the team would most likely be in a much better place in the standings. Those 2 really need to figure their stuff out. The entire franchise is really relying on it.

Yup. 

[gman]

The problem with blaming the coaches, is the guys that can't hit, won't change and haven't changes for the last 3-4 hitting coaches they've played for.

Gallo, has hit the same way for 3-4 teams, all with different coaches. He is what he is.

Kepler has had 1 good year and a decent year in  8 seasons. He is not a hitter to count on. So don't. Other teams wouldn't. DFA him. Replace him for guys with minor league options.

Buxton, if he is not playing center, shouldn't be in the lineup. Too hurt to play, then too hurt to play. Price shouldn't guarantee an everyday spot. The team can't cover him.

Lastly and maybe leastly, this team just doesn't have enough GOOD hitters. We send down the guys with options, who hit like our veterans. Not we have mostly veterans who can't hit. Bench everyone who strikes out 3 times a week. Can we institute a 60 man roster?

 

[lukeduke1980]

Just for fun I think we should trade Kepler to the Yankees and watch him just start peppering their short porch in right.

[TwinsDr2021]

41 minutes ago, Major League Ready said:

Selling in a given season does not equate to a tear down.    Did they go into a rebuild when they traded Cruz for Joe Ryan?

They could trade expiring players in Gallo / Kepler / Solano and Maeda.  Mahle is coming off at the end of the year as well so that's five 40 man spots going away.  They could also trade Polanco and play Castro or Farmer or Julien at 2B.  They could trade Gray if the offer was good enough. 

trading Gallo/Kepler/Sano doesn't mean tear down because all three could just be cut and it wouldn't really chance much now.

Trading a bullpen piece like Maeda at this point also doesn't mean tear down because he isn't even pitching.

They could probably trade Castro and/or Farmer and not mean tear down either.

So yes you are correct, trading doesn't mean tear down, and I think they have some guys to sell, not sure what they would get for them since most aren't playing well.

Did they or didn't they rebuild with the Cruz trade is kind of up in the air, right, I mean they didn't make the playoffs last year and with no turn around likely won't this year. So technically not a rebuild the end result is about the same.

The real problem is their Stars are hurt/terrible, their top prospects haven't panned out and the prospects in the minors are not there?

I assumed in my response to the other comment was, they were saying sell off anybody worth anything and start over.

[Minny505]

4 hours ago, HoskenPowell said:

NOT trading Kepler last winter has also hurt so non trades are a problem too.  Be lucky to get a A ball lottery ticket now , but I'd still trade him to open doors for Wallner.

4 hours ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

The Odo trade was good, and I agree on the not trading Kepler comment.

The problem is that Kepler is now untradeable unless the Twins pick up all of his contract left for the year. Even then, he may not have any trade value as most teams would rather just sign him after going thru waivers and not have to give up any minor leaguers.

 

[Minny505]

If you recall, a struggling SS Willy Adames was swapped for RP J.P. Feyereisen before June in 2021. That deal worked out great for both squads.

It can happen, especially if it is a swap of two veterans.

[Fire Dan Gladden]

1 hour ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

trading Gallo/Kepler/Sano doesn't mean tear down because all three could just be cut and it wouldn't really chance much now.

Trading a bullpen piece like Maeda at this point also doesn't mean tear down because he isn't even pitching.

They could probably trade Castro and/or Farmer and not mean tear down either.

So yes you are correct, trading doesn't mean tear down, and I think they have some guys to sell, not sure what they would get for them since most aren't playing well.

Did they or didn't they rebuild with the Cruz trade is kind of up in the air, right, I mean they didn't make the playoffs last year and with no turn around likely won't this year. So technically not a rebuild the end result is about the same.

The real problem is their Stars are hurt/terrible, their top prospects haven't panned out and the prospects in the minors are not there?

I assumed in my response to the other comment was, they were saying sell off anybody worth anything and start over.

So trading or moving seven of your primary offensive players is not a tear down?  Sure would love to know what would define a tear down...

I am all for improved offense on this team.  It would help if the guys that are supposed to hit actually hit.  You guys go on finding ways to destroy the team and the direction they are heading.  I am going to enjoy our first place club and hope that Buxton and Correa figure it out soon.

[Major League Ready]

10 minutes ago, Fire Dan Gladden said:

So trading or moving seven of your primary offensive players is not a tear down?  Sure would love to know what would define a tear down...

I am all for improved offense on this team.  It would help if the guys that are supposed to hit actually hit.  You guys go on finding ways to destroy the team and the direction they are heading.  I am going to enjoy our first place club and hope that Buxton and Correa figure it out soon.

Why would you assume they would trade all seven.   The context seems pretty clear you could trade any of those seven or even two or three of them.  None of them are core players beyond this year so trading any of them or even all of them would be irrelevant in any long-term rebuild.  

[Jeff K]

6 hours ago, mikelink45 said:

I don't want it.  I want to see the younger batters take the field and drop the veterans who can't crack 200.  We dropped the ball with Spencer Steer who now has a +`127 OPS.  We have Wallner and Julien who are ready for the majors - especially for a team that can't score runs - don't trade them.  We have a good pitching staff and it just needs a supplement - Winder? 

I didn't even like the big Correa contract with Lewis and Lee coming on.  If we trade it needs to be a Polanco/Kepler/Gallo player or two, no more prospects at this time.  

Unless the Twins can get quality bullpen assistance, then I also don't think a trade is necessary.  I agree that it is time to give the youth in this organization a shot; especially Wallner & Julien.  I do not understand why the Twins are hanging onto Kepler.  There is a mountain of evidence that his current hitting is his norm.  There isn't that much left on his contract; let him go!  Gallo is not the lost cause that Kepler is; however, I think the Twins need to strike out less and hit for better average which has to improve their troubles with RISP.  With that in mind, they should probably move on from Gallo.

[Larry Janisewski]

5 hours ago, TopGunn#22 said:

There are certain guys I'd be willing to move on from NOW.  Kepler and Larnach come to mind.  If I was trading Larnach straight up for Esty Perez from the A's I'd do it to get a speedy, young CF'er at the top of my order who would create some havoc on the base paths.  I'd trade Kepler for a bag of baseballs and bring Wallner up.  This removes two OF'ers who i consider dead weight while adding two others who are younger.  Perez gives us speed.  Wallner gives us power.  Those are moves that could help right away without moving a Spencer Steer type of player.  

The additional BP arm needs to wait until closer to the deadline.  Nobody is trading that kind of asset until they can maximize their leverage.  Who knows, maybe Jorge Lopez will get his "stuff' together and if Stewart keeps doing what he's been doing and Theilbar does what he's capable of, the BP becomes a strength again.  

The biggest thing holding this team back are the "stars."  Correa is absolutely lost at the plate and Buxton, despite all the tender loving care is back on the IL.  Polanco has been underwhelming to this point.  The hope on offense now rests on Kirilloff and Lewis.  Unless Correa, Buxton and Polanco REALLY pick things up the Twins are going to continue to struggle offensively.  

Today the Twins started 2 players batting over .250 vs the Rays. That's not going to get it done.

[TwinsDr2021]

22 minutes ago, Fire Dan Gladden said:

You guys go on finding ways to destroy the team and the direction they are heading.  I am going to enjoy our first place club and hope that Buxton and Correa figure it out soon.

IMO, they are destroying the team from within, I haven't forgotten 21 or 22, and how unwatchable this team is now. This team has lost 5 in a row, 6 of their last 10 and now are under .500. It is totally up to you to enjoy this team, I am pissed and disappointed in them.

If they were in the East they would be 14 games back, if they were in the west they would be 10 games back.

Imagine if somebody said the second place team in the division was 5 games under .500 and the lead was 2 games.

[howeda7]

Fire Falvey, Rocco and the hitting coach. See if Thad Levine, Toby Gardenhire, and a new hitting coach can light a fire in this lifeless group. If not, sell everyone that won't contribute in 2025. As for the roster, get Garlick and Kepler off this team and get Wallner and Julien up ASAP. 

[Linus]

2 hours ago, lukeduke1980 said:

Just for fun I think we should trade Kepler to the Yankees and watch him just start peppering their short porch in right.

Is that where their second baseman plays?

😂

[Linus]

I see lots of let the young guys play comments on these boards. As Gleeman would say what are we even talking about here?

Everyone can agree that Wallner should be up. Then who are these marvelous young players people are clamoring for? Ed Julien can’t carry Polanco jock. Miranda is scuffling. Martin is rehabbing and hasn’t proven anything. Brooks Lee?  50 decent games at AA and we are calling him up?

The cupboard is pretty empty on the farm. Besides their two best young hitters are Kiriloff and Lewis and both are here.