Over Managing Manager of the Year Award

[Riverbrian]

Kirilloff Career MLB Splits:

VS LHP

100 PA

4 HR

.250 BA

.728 OPS

VS RHP

330 PA

10 HR

..263 BA

.734 OPS

Is there anything in his minor league stats that strongly suggests that he needs to be protected from lefties? 

[TwinsDr2021]

2 hours ago, Riverbrian said:

I think development goes way beyond the draft. 

If the previous regime drafted Kirilloff and they did...  does the previous regime get the credit for drafting Alex or does the current regime get the credit since they were responsible for his development since being drafted.

To give the credit to the previous regime for simply drafting the player... it kinda suggests that the player is fated to become what he is going to become. Might as well let all the coaches go if that is the case because all you have to do is nail the draft and the player is going to be what he is going to be.  

The Dodgers always draft late but they develop a lot of incredible prospects. Drafting late doesn't seem to kill their farm system. Bobby Miller is hitting the stage tonight I believe. Did they draft well or develop well. Probably both but I would put more credence... a lot more on the development side.  

It does go beyond the draft for sure, but again what offensive players have the developed? I can't find an everyday player. And AK (2016), Gordon (2014), and Miranda (16) were round 1 and 2 picks, if it takes that long to develop a player, I think they might be doing something wrong.

[h2oface]

4 hours ago, chpettit19 said:

"Despite the early moves, including removing one of the team’s hottest hitters (Kirilloff), several Twins said there were no complaints in the dugout from players, attributing a lack of questions to the coaching staff thoroughly communicating its plan in Monday’s hitters’ meeting. Several players were informed they might not sniff the plate despite starting depending on how San Francisco utilized its pitching staff. One player said the group has been conditioned by the staff to expect moves because of the way the team’s strategy surrounds matchup-based decisions."

That is a quote from Dan Hayes' article in The Athletic this morning. I find it interesting. I'm encouraged by the fact that they're communicating so well that everyone knows the plan. There are plenty of posts around these parts suggesting the players have no idea what's happening, and it's all chaos and that's why they can't succeed. That quote seems to directly refute that.

But the last sentence is also interesting, and concerning. It seems to support the idea that things are indeed very formulaic, and robotic. There's not much leniency in following "the plan." A plan is not only good, it's needed in today's sports world. But being unable, or unwilling, to adjust that plan is every bit as harmful as not having one at all. The players being ready for moves should also be a positive in that they know they all need to be ready to contribute during any given game. This also goes to the complaints about bullpen usage/roles that pops up every now and then. I'd think the pitchers' meetings are also well communicated, and every bullpen arm knows what part of the game, and what part of the lineup, they may see that day. It should allow them to maximize their preparation for the day. It doesn't seem to be working, though. So what's the disconnect? I hope it's something the FO, and coaching staff, are examining.

....no complaints in the dugout from players....?

Right. That means nothing. Nothing at all. How do you think it would go for the players if they complained? So they don't. Hell, even if a player doesn't complain, but doesn't sign an undervalued extension, they are consistently traded. Luis Arraez was the most recent that said no to the extension offered at the time and terms, even though he was under control for more years. 

Of course there were no complaints from the players, especially from the prospect/rookies/newbies. It doesn't mean that they think the plan and decision was total ...........

[h2oface]

1 hour ago, Riverbrian said:

Is there anything in his minor league stats that strongly suggests that he needs to be protected from lefties? 

Kirilloff Career Splits:

VS LHP

100 PA

4 HR

.250 BA

.728 OPS

VS RHP

330 PA

10 HR

..263 BA

.734 OPS

 

Absolutely not!!!

I know the question was rhetorical, but what the heck.....

[h2oface]

18 hours ago, Winston Smith said:

On pace for an 84 win season in the heavy hitting AL Central and all you can do is complain.

 

5 hours ago, John Belinski said:

Do you remember what happened last year?  

I do believe Winston's comment was dripping with sarcasm, John. 

[chpettit19]

1 minute ago, h2oface said:

....no complaints in the dugout from players....?

Right. That means nothing. Nothing at all. How do you think it would go for the players if they complained? So they don't. Hell, even if a player doesn't complain, but doesn't sign an undervalued extension, they are consistently traded. Luis Arraez was the most recent that said no to the extension offered at the time and terms, even though he was under control for more years. 

Of course there were no complaints from the players, especially from the prospect/rookies/newbies. It doesn't mean that they think the plan and decision was total ...........

I have no idea what you're trying to get at with the trade stuff. I don't see any connection between player's responses to last night's decisions and Luis Arraez getting traded. If you think professional athletes are shy about their opinions you haven't been around professional athletes.

Carlos Correa isn't even shy about being shy. He let's his opinion be known on everything. Loudly. Joey Gallo has been very open about not liking leading off. Buxton has complained about a number of things over the years. Sonny Gray gave TD threads months worth of content with his comments on being pulled early last year. Bailey Ober was open about his frustration with being sent down to start the year. And that's just the stuff we hear publicly. Players and coaches disagree on strategies all the time, and they're discussed in the clubhouse all the time. These guys have millions of dollars on the line. They're not shy about letting Rocco and the FO know if they're not happy with how they're being used. Alex Kirilloff is represented by Scott Boras. You think if he's unhappy with how he's being used Boras wouldn't be on every radio and TV show he can get on today ranting and raving?

[h2oface]

28 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

I have no idea what you're trying to get at with the trade stuff. I don't see any connection between player's responses to last night's decisions and Luis Arraez getting traded. If you think professional athletes are shy about their opinions you haven't been around professional athletes.

Carlos Correa isn't even shy about being shy. He let's his opinion be known on everything. Loudly. Joey Gallo has been very open about not liking leading off. Buxton has complained about a number of things over the years. Sonny Gray gave TD threads months worth of content with his comments on being pulled early last year. Bailey Ober was open about his frustration with being sent down to start the year. And that's just the stuff we hear publicly. Players and coaches disagree on strategies all the time, and they're discussed in the clubhouse all the time. These guys have millions of dollars on the line. They're not shy about letting Rocco and the FO know if they're not happy with how they're being used. Alex Kirilloff is represented by Scott Boras. You think if he's unhappy with how he's being used Boras wouldn't be on every radio and TV show he can get on today ranting and raving?

Well, I have no problem looking at it from the other perspective and seeing what you are trying to get at. Sorry that it doesn't work both ways for you. Kirilloff and Julien are not in a position to really do anything but nod yes at this point in their career, especially if they want to play, and sometimes just saying no is received as complaining. But you can be right if you like. I'm pretty sure someone as smart as you is getting the drift. Kinda silly to pretend you don't.

[chpettit19]

1 minute ago, h2oface said:

Well, I have no problem looking at it from the other perspective and seeing what you are trying to get at. Sorry that it doesn't work both ways for you.

I seriously don't understand what the suggestion was. Are you suggesting Luis Arraez was traded because he disagreed with Rocco or the team on some strategy? I seriously don't understand what you're trying to suggest. I'm not trying to be rude or anything. I literally don't understand what you're suggesting.

[Wilco1]

I consider myself a great twins fan. Last night was the first time I turn the game off. After 3 innings . I stay tune in to watch the young stars like larnach, kiriloff Julian.. If anyone should have a pinch hitter it should be Correa! Drop him down to the 7 or 8 hole.!  I saw the box score after the game and saw 16 strickouts. Unfrickinbelivabe!!!! You guys might want to consider a new  hitting coach.  The twins lead all of baseball with 474 strikeouts. Buxton and Correa half nearly 100 between the 2 of them. This is unacceptable. Hard to believe they extended Rocco’s  contract.🤔

[Eris]

I think the biggest criticism of the PH moves is depleting the bench early in the game. However, Rocco didn’t get 16Ks by himself, 12 of which came against Manaea and Beck, both of whom have ERAs >5.4. There should be expectation that MLB players can take quality at bats. Currently, beyond Kirilloff, something few players on the Twins seem capable of doing. 
 

I was going to put Farmer on the list with Kirilloff but noticed that Farmer’s K% has increased from 17% last year to 26% this year. 

[RickOShea]

9 hours ago, DJL44 said:

Agree. 

Managers don't hit or pitch, but they do decide who should be in a particular position.  They can assist in putting a player in a position that's best for him to have success or fail.  If the manager is adept at this, it ultimately falls on the player/pitcher to execute.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

9 hours ago, CoasterProductions said:

I did not know he was extended how much longer is he here for?

2025

[Riverbrian]

16 hours ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

It does go beyond the draft for sure, but again what offensive players have the developed? I can't find an everyday player. And AK (2016), Gordon (2014), and Miranda (16) were round 1 and 2 picks, if it takes that long to develop a player, I think they might be doing something wrong.

Maybe but I think they are making the same mistake that nearly every team makes. 

I've spent a lot of time looking at all 30 teams and how they go about the process and it is indeed a process with a very hard hard hard filter that is very difficult for a young player to squeeze through. 

As for the development time that you reference... IMO... the biggest culprit is the agreed upon rules between the players and owners in the CBA. The rules set forth in the CBA basically make it irresponsible to rush a player through the system. 

The system in place demands that a young player has to be significantly better than a veteran player just to earn a MLB job, the system can reward mediocrity and it can impede development.  

After a player is drafted: Teams have 4 years to make a decision on college players, 5 years with high school players before they must be placed on the 40 man roster or exposed to the rule 5 draft. For a college player drafted at age 22... they can be looked at until they are 26. 

After a player is placed on the 40 man roster... they are assigned 3 minor league options before they must be assigned to the 26 man roster or be exposed to other teams this gives teams 3 years to send them up and down without consequence. For that college player who is drafted at age 22... now they are 29 years old. 

Once their options are gone, they have to be placed on outright waivers to be taken off the 26 man roster and this gives other teams the chance to claim them. 

Using Kyle Farmer for example. He was drafted at age 22 out of the University of Georgia by the Dodgers in the 8th round. The Dodgers used all 4 years allowed by the CBA to determine if they wanted to protect him. They wanted to protect him and stashed him in the minors, calling him up and down until they traded him to the Reds. Welcome to the majors Kyle Farmer the 28 year old Rookie who is actually pretty good but hiding deep in a deep Dodger system waiting for his chance. The Dodgers followed the rules... there was nothing that Kyle Farmer could do about it. And we have Twins fans wondering who is this guy at age 32? You gotta cheer for a guy like Kyle... He practically took the full brunt of the process and came out the other side. The funny thing about Farmer...  he's 32... he still has an option remaining and under 5 years of service time. We could send Kyle Farmer down without consequence. 

Let's look at Nick Gordon... Nick was drafted out of high school at age 18. He did his 5 years and he has used his 3 minor league options. He has gone through this entire process. He is now 27 years old and he is out of options so he can't be sent down or the Twins could lose him for nothing to any team that would like to claim him so he is allowed to struggle and hopefully work out his problems.

This is an important point because I'll contend that there are (I'm making up a number) 15 players in the Twins minor leagues that would be able to produce better numbers at the MLB level than what Nick has with us this season. Nick is protected from consequence for the time being. On the other hand... Jose Miranda still has options remaining so he is sent down because the club can send him down even though he isn't struggling as bad as Nick Gordon.

Let's look at someone like Yunior Severino. He's really hitting the ball down in AA. Why can't the Twins take a look at Yunior while he's hot.

First he needs a 40 man spot. Anybody taken off the 40 man roster is exposed to other teams. Ok... you found a 40 man spot... Who do you take off the 26 man roster. Do you release a Gordon just to see if Yunior is going to be OK in the majors? Nope... Do you send a player down that is more advanced through the system. The end result for Yunior is this... he can get as hot as he wants, he's not getting a roster spot unless there is a cannonball of injuries. He will spend his 5 years in the system and this is his 5th year. The Twins will have to decide if Yunior gets a 40 man spot after this season. It's looking like a yes if he keeps hitting like he is.   

In a nutshell. The CBA is the reason why it takes a long time for players to... umm... develop. Believe me... if players were exposed to the majors at age 23 instead of 26... They'd have it figured out at age 25 instead of age 28.

The CBA is the reason why entry into the major league is a hard hard system to filter through. The CBA has created a system that rewards mediocrity from vets and slows down the development process. The CBA punishes a team that rush players through the system because that organization will have to pay younger players at the arbitration table quicker and eventually pay them or lose them to free agency at a younger prime age.

The CBA will also punish the aggressive team because they won't have the necessary depth stashed away in AAA should the need occur and the need will occur. 

Kirilloff has used his last option this year. He can't be sent down next year. This is his year to be healthy and claim a job... This is his year to face lefties/righties the whole kit and kaboodle.   

 

[umterp23]

Baseball to me is the hardest professional sport to be really successful in all of pro sports.  Think about a hitter who has to square up a baseball that is round and his bat is round to get a hit 3 x's out of 10.  Tough task when pitchers throw up to 102MPH or craft guys can changes speeds +/- 10 mph.  Tough to do.  

Basketball, shooting the ball and begging for a foul when it doesn't go in when you run down the court to not play defense.  Pretty easy.  Hockey and the goalie position is hard.  Football, players stronger/faster/bigger but with new rules it's more like 2-hand touch.

NBA/NFL, you get drafted you pretty much make roster. Dog eat dog world but year one you are in the league.  Hockey, top picks on team, 

Baseball, top pick unless your Robin Yount, you take busses for 10 hours to play a game you love for no money.  Getting to the bigs well versed by RiverBrian shows you how difficult it can be and the heart and desire to chase a dream really starts for MLB guys after high school or college.

[Riverbrian]

On 5/24/2023 at 7:17 AM, umterp23 said:

Baseball to me is the hardest professional sport to be really successful in all of pro sports.  Think about a hitter who has to square up a baseball that is round and his bat is round to get a hit 3 x's out of 10.  Tough task when pitchers throw up to 102MPH or craft guys can changes speeds +/- 10 mph.  Tough to do.  

Basketball, shooting the ball and begging for a foul when it doesn't go in when you run down the court to not play defense.  Pretty easy.  Hockey and the goalie position is hard.  Football, players stronger/faster/bigger but with new rules it's more like 2-hand touch.

NBA/NFL, you get drafted you pretty much make roster. Dog eat dog world but year one you are in the league.  Hockey, top picks on team, 

Baseball, top pick unless your Robin Yount, you take busses for 10 hours to play a game you love for no money.  Getting to the bigs well versed by RiverBrian shows you how difficult it can be and the heart and desire to chase a dream really starts for MLB guys after high school or college.

Great Post. 

I'll throw a couple more additions to my novel. 

Teams can hold players rights until well past their prime:

Kyle Farmer will reach free agency in 2025. He will be 34 years of age when he finally gets a chance to choose who he plays for and at age 34 he won't have that many choices. Kyle had no choice in this matter. He was drafted by a deep Dodger team who operated under the terms of the CBA. 

The margins are incredibly thin: Miranda, Steer, Strand who do you choose? The Twins chose Miranda,

Steer and Strand were traded to the Reds.

Steer was drafted out of college in 2019... a 40 man decision would have needed to be made on him at the conclusion of last year. Was there room for Steer on the Twins 40 man roster? How much better or how much worse was Steer then the guys that the Twins selected for the 40 man spot. Probably not much difference at all but the Twins were getting crowded so Steer was probably an easy guy to include in the trade because keeping Steer on the 40 man will cost themselves someone else that they liked. There are only so many 40 man spots.   

Strand was drafted out of college in 2021. He was probably the hard one to include in the deal because he didn't require a roster spot. The Reds won't have to make a decision on him until after the 2024 season. He is tearing the cover off the ball in the minors. The Reds don't have to call him up... because they can use this time to take a look at Steer and others. Calling him up early... will cost them a player so they will probably take time with him even if he is hurting the baseball over and over again.  

Players... many we never thought of or heard of... are pretty good players and have the potential to be pretty good major league players yet they still get bounced out of the systems of all 30 teams because of roster space decisions. Lack of opportunity kills them. 

The only conclusion that I have come up with is this: 26 man roster spots are GOLD! When you decide to hang on to Pagan and let him struggle... there is a bigger consequence than just absorbing his poor performance. Somewhere down the line, like falling dominos... someone that could have gotten opportunity instead is gone. All teams... not just the Twins make mistakes on these types of decisions all the time. You can't screw around with the 26 man roster, you can't waste a spot on a Billy Hamilton type player, You need a team full of players competing for playing time.   

You need 26 players on the 26 man who can play. You can't let a Logan Morrison just waste a spot with crappy performance and everyday playing time day in and day out. You should never let a Andrealton Simmons or Logan Forsythe play every day on a losing team when they will not be in uniform next year. You should never sign a Matt Belisle during a losing season at the expense of a Nick Anderson. 

Honest competition is the only way to minimize mistakes that are sure to be made because the margins are thin. The decisions are hard. If you let bad play clog up the system, the bottle neck is much worse than it already is by the terms of the CBA. You will spill potentially better players down the line. You may not know who those spilled players are...but they are spilling.  Constantly search for better... even if it's improving from a .560 OPS to a .690 OPS and never assume that you know... who is better. 

 

 

[Original_JB]

The thing with putting it on the player's 'not performing' really isn't fair either. I'll give an analogy (I haven't thought the whole thought through so hopefully I don't ramble too much). I work in the Electronics industry and have for almost 40 years, doing a variety of different jobs. I have and do work with some of the most talented/smart/'crazy smart' people in a wide breadth of fields. No matter how much talent and ideas and stuff like that you have, you can't overcome inept management, you just can't. As the talent, you basically have to do what you're told to do; you can give your opinions on things, but ultimately, it isn't your say/choice on how it goes. You can piss/moan/complain to your boss and/or co-workers, but that just gets you a "not a team player" label and an eventual trip out the door, even if you are correct in what you are saying. There gets to be a point where you "stop trying" for lack of a better term, because it gets you nowhere and just leads to chronic frustration. Sure you come in and "do your job, earn your check", but the passion is gone.  I think of Joey Gallo, he actually made public his gripe, and how do you think he took Baldelli's response? He won't bitch, but I tell you, in his head, there's a certain amount of "eff this". Going 'above and beyond'? Nope, not any more. A good manager in any field gets his team on the same page, and is able to get his/their team to 'rise to the occasion' where not only do they go through the paces, they're eager to excel, and fired up/excited about the possibilities of what can be accomplished. I just don't see that in this Front Office and Manager.

[Eris]

15 hours ago, Riverbrian said:

 

The system in place demands that a young player has to be significantly better than a veteran player just to earn a MLB job, the system can reward mediocrity and it can impede development.  

 

I agree with everything you have written. In general unions are designed to protect the most senior members. This is as much true for MLB players, the umpires union, as well as teachers unions and the auto factory. This is one of the reasons why I thought having the MLB players association represent the minor league players was a poor idea. The objectives of minor league players are inherently in conflict with major league players. 

[Riverbrian]

3 hours ago, Original_JB said:

The thing with putting it on the player's 'not performing' really isn't fair either. I'll give an analogy (I haven't thought the whole thought through so hopefully I don't ramble too much). I work in the Electronics industry and have for almost 40 years, doing a variety of different jobs. I have and do work with some of the most talented/smart/'crazy smart' people in a wide breadth of fields. No matter how much talent and ideas and stuff like that you have, you can't overcome inept management, you just can't. As the talent, you basically have to do what you're told to do; you can give your opinions on things, but ultimately, it isn't your say/choice on how it goes. You can piss/moan/complain to your boss and/or co-workers, but that just gets you a "not a team player" label and an eventual trip out the door, even if you are correct in what you are saying. There gets to be a point where you "stop trying" for lack of a better term, because it gets you nowhere and just leads to chronic frustration. Sure you come in and "do your job, earn your check", but the passion is gone.  I think of Joey Gallo, he actually made public his gripe, and how do you think he took Baldelli's response? He won't bitch, but I tell you, in his head, there's a certain amount of "eff this". Going 'above and beyond'? Nope, not any more. A good manager in any field gets his team on the same page, and is able to get his/their team to 'rise to the occasion' where not only do they go through the paces, they're eager to excel, and fired up/excited about the possibilities of what can be accomplished. I just don't see that in this Front Office and Manager.

I have never seen how any of them interact with staff so I am not even close to qualified to make any kind of speculation on the work place environment at 1 Twins way.

I think social media has created a mess that is impossible to clean up and drawing conclusions off of short sentences is how it got messy. 

 

 

 

[Minny505]

Pulling Kirilloff and Julien after the 1st inning was the plan, not a reaction. Not at all.

Rearranging his starting lineup because the team thought Manea was NOT going to pitch is reacting, abandoning the plan. 

If this is overmanaging, Kevin Cash of the Rays is the worst manager in MLB...meaning he is the biggest over-managing manager in the league.

[Jeff K]

On 5/23/2023 at 8:28 AM, Riverbrian said:

I have participated in a lot of discussion lately (and in the past) that can leave the impression that I'm anti-platoon. 

To be clear - I'm not anti-platoon. I am anti-strict adherence to the platoon.  

To be clear - This team has platooned it's way to a bad offense. It's not the platoon's fault that the offense is bad. The offense is bad because the players are playing bad. A platoon hitter isn't going to make this offense better. We need HITTERS... the kind of hitter that we are not going to pinch hit and Rocco let everyone know last night that the hitters that we need will not be Kirilloff or Julien so we can adjust our expectations now and move on from this pair. 

As far as I'm concerned in regards to our use of the platoon... Last night was a bridge too far. 

Our young clean up hitter was pulled before he swung a bat in reaction to a 7.81 ERA left hander taking the mound after the opener. He set the lineup to left handed based on one inning of a right handed opener and then re-set the lineup to right handed in the 2nd inning based on a left handed 7.81 ERA pitcher entering the game. The blind adherence to platooning just got cartoonish.   

We don't need MORE platoon hitters. We need HITTERS! We need hitters who can hit both hands, we need hitters that nobody is going to pinch hit for. If a player needs to be platooned... he is not the type of hitter we need. We got enough of those guys and they are failing at the moment. 

Did we call Kirilloff up to be a platoon hitter or are we hoping that he is better than that? Are we developing Kirilloff to be a platoon hitter or are we hoping that he is better than that? We have Kirilloff for the next 5 years before he hits free agency. Are we going to develop a platoon hitter for the next 5 years? 

I guess so. That is exactly what they are doing. Kirilloff didn't start against left-handers on Friday and Saturday so he obviously isn't good enough to face them in the eyes of the front office and he won't be good enough to face them in the future due to not being allowed to face them. 

I have been hopeful that Kirilloff develops into a plus plus hitter. It won't happen. The Twins are going to minimize his development to be nothing more than a strong side platoon that will need to be pinch hit for when Josh Hader enters the game.

Or worse... when Sean Manaea enters the game.  

Will Kirilloff have bad career splits when we look at his numbers 3 years from now.?

Yes he will. The Twins are going to make sure that he does via usage.  

Julien? Future platoon hitter? Yep... future platoon hitter. He can't even face a 7.81 ERA left-hander. 

We don't need more platoon hitters. WE NEED HITTERS!  

It won't be Kirilloff or Julien. We can cast our eyes down the road. 

This is an interesting post and I think you might be right.  The platoon becomes a self (manager) fulfilling prophecy when it's dictated from the outset.

[Riverbrian]

1 minute ago, Jeff K said:

This is an interesting post and I think you might be right.  The platoon becomes a self (manager) fulfilling prophecy when it's dictated from the outset.

Bingo

If you want to build a two legged chair... only give it two legs. 

[John Belinski]

I guess the FO extended Rocco because they were concerned some other team would sign him? My local high school team does need a coach, but do not think they would even hire Rocco.

[Whitey333]

The team play reflects the managing style of their manager.  Baldelli and the FO should be held accountable for the most boring and listless brand of baseball in recent Twins memory.  This organization is a joke just like signing Baldelli to an extension is a joke.  It has become so apparent that win ING is not important to them but sticking to their plan is.

[SwainZag]

32 minutes ago, Whitey333 said:

The team play reflects the managing style of their manager.  Baldelli and the FO should be held accountable for the most boring and listless brand of baseball in recent Twins memory.  This organization is a joke just like signing Baldelli to an extension is a joke.  It has become so apparent that win ING is not important to them but sticking to their plan is.

It's actually pretty insane people think this to me.  Rocco has been here 5 seasons and two of the seasons the Twins had winning percentages over .600.  Two of the best eight winning percentages ever in the Twins 123 year history have come with Rocco at the helm.  How did you come to the conclusion that winning isn't important under Baldelli?  The "what have you done for me lately" crowd has gotten out of control. 

[RickOShea]

On 5/23/2023 at 1:18 PM, h2oface said:

Well, I have no problem looking at it from the other perspective and seeing what you are trying to get at. Sorry that it doesn't work both ways for you. Kirilloff and Julien are not in a position to really do anything but nod yes at this point in their career, especially if they want to play, and sometimes just saying no is received as complaining. But you can be right if you like. I'm pretty sure someone as smart as you is getting the drift. Kinda silly to pretend you don't.