Will Jose Miranda or Willi Castro Make Room For Kyle Farmer?

[mikelink45]

1 hour ago, tony&rodney said:

Not sure what you see in a comparison between a player like Farmer and either of Castro or Gordon.

What I am seeing is that Farmer is not great, but if we have him we do not need Castro (especially) and/or Gordon.

[Blyleven2011]

I hate to say it but the sophomore slump has gotten to him ...

He's out of wack with his swing and defense  has been below average ...

Miranda is doing more harm being on the team with bad defense and hitting  ...

Solano would be next,  defense hasn't been good and hitting isn't what  it was at the beginning of season ...

Castro doesn't hit much but plays infield and outfield  and he switch hits , defense is better than the others ...

Defense and pitching win games  ...

[Doctor Wu]

14 hours ago, Chatts said:

Miranda's glove work and throwing strength both need work while his offense is struggling mightly. Hopefully some time in St Paul will allow him to work on all of the above. And to think we traded away a very serviceable 3rd baseman in Geo Upshela who is carrying a 283 avg as I write.

Urshela is now hitting over .300 !

[Trov]

I expect Miranda to get sent down, to allow him to keep getting regular at-bats.  He has options.  Castro would have to pass waivers, which he very while might, but in reality, he would only be holding spot until Lewis is ready to come up, baring other injuries to people.  

[Major League Ready]

1 hour ago, Doctor Wu said:

Urshela is now hitting over .300 !

Why use a stat that tells a small portion of the story.  His OPS is 50 points below average and his wRC+ is 87.  A singles hitter with a 328 OBP is not going to make any difference to this team.   The real mistake was trading CES.   I don't know if he could stick at 3B either, but he is crushing AAA pitching hitting 400 with 7 HRs.  He has legit 40 HR potential with a high average.

[DJL44]

13 minutes ago, Trov said:

Castro would have to pass waivers

I don't think this is correct. Roster Resource shows one option remaining for Castro.

2023 Minnesota Twins Depth Chart | RosterResource | FanGraphs Baseball

[chpettit19]

23 hours ago, roger said:

Very interesting question.  Truth is, however, that you may be talking about what will remain a question/concern also in the future.  Where is Royce Lewis going to play come summer?  Ain't gonna be shortstop, unless Correa is injured.  Third is likely the next best option.  With Miranda not likely to be a first baseman, his remaining role is DH.  Does that make sense?

Does anyone know where Lewis is playing now that he is playing with the EST group in Florida?

Lewis is now in Wichita on a rehab assignment. He's playing SS and 3B to start, but they haven't ruled out the OF in the future. I'd think Miranda should be hearing footsteps at this point as Lewis started his rehab stint Saturday (if I'm remembering correctly) and only gets 20 days. So the Lewis decision will come before the end of May. I'd think if he's mashing, and playing everyday. by the end of the month, and Miranda is still swinging at everything, Miranda will be replaced by Lewis at 3B.

Edit: I was wrong, they announced Sunday that he'll start his rehab on Thursday. So they have 20 days from Thursday which puts them at the last day of May if my math is correct.

[TopGunn#22]

Thanks for clarifying chpettit.  Lewis will make a lot of this speculation moot when he's ready to come up to the big club.  

[stringer bell]

21 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

Lewis is now in Wichita on a rehab assignment. He's playing SS and 3B to start, but they haven't ruled out the OF

Edit: I was wrong, they announced Sunday that he'll start his rehab on Thursday. So they have 20 days from Thursday which puts them at the last day of May if my math is correct.

As I wrote on another thread, the timing is significant. Lewis can't be activated from the 60-day IL until late in May (the 29th?) and unless he has a medical setback, his rehab can't extend beyond May 31. When his rehab is over, the Twins will have to activate him. That means at that point they will have to make room on the 40-man roster and, much like Alex Kirilloff this week, decide whether to option him to the minor leagues or put him on the major league roster. If it wasn't possible that Lewis would be performing for the Twins by June 1st, they wouldn't have sent him on rehab. 

Jose Miranda should certainly be feeling the footsteps of #1 overall draft pick Royce Lewis with this news and the additional nugget that he'll be working at third base. 

[jmlease1]

1 hour ago, Major League Ready said:

Why use a stat that tells a small portion of the story.  His OPS is 50 points below average and his wRC+ is 87.  A singles hitter with a 328 OBP is not going to make any difference to this team.   The real mistake was trading CES.   I don't know if he could stick at 3B either, but he is crushing AAA pitching hitting 400 with 7 HRs.  He has legit 40 HR potential with a high average.

Trading CES was a risk and it's not paying off with Mahle unreliable because of injury. His bat has the potential to be impressive and he was the piece I was most concerned about losing. But I do think if people are up in arms at Miranda's defense at 3B then CES would have really made people crazy. He's pretty dreadful defensively, which is probably why he's only played 2 games at 3B for Cincy this season. I don't think he's going to stick there.

I think I would send Miranda down at this point. He's slumping badly and needs a reset. Farmer can slot in at 3B and I think other posters are right that it's preferable to have Castro sitting on the bench with Solano than Miranda. Castro kind of is who he is: utility guy who isn't going to hit much but will provide competent defense at a lot of different spots. A couple of weeks in AAA might get Miranda back to showing better plate discipline and attacking pitches in the zone with authority. A couple of weeks in AAA probably doesn't change anything for Castro, and his positional flexibility gives him utility in the late innings as a defensive replacement or pinch runner.

[Jeff K]

On 5/7/2023 at 10:40 AM, LewFordLives said:

I generally agree it should be Miranda that goes to St Paul. I always assumed Farmer was brought on board as insurance in case Correa didn't come back and/or Miranda struggled. Keeping Miranda on the bench does him no good. He needs to play every day and I think he needs to keep getting time at 3B. It's too early in his career to throw in the towel and put him at first.

I agree with your comments as well as the original ones...and my gut reaction to sending down Miranda was...are you crazy?  But his negative defense and  mediocre offense are reasons to not play.  Miranda has good  upside and needs to play.  Send him to St. Paul and let him find his batting stroke and improve his fielding.

 

[Major League Ready]

41 minutes ago, jmlease1 said:

Trading CES was a risk and it's not paying off with Mahle unreliable because of injury. His bat has the potential to be impressive and he was the piece I was most concerned about losing. But I do think if people are up in arms at Miranda's defense at 3B then CES would have really made people crazy. He's pretty dreadful defensively, which is probably why he's only played 2 games at 3B for Cincy this season. I don't think he's going to stick there.

I think I would send Miranda down at this point. He's slumping badly and needs a reset. Farmer can slot in at 3B and I think other posters are right that it's preferable to have Castro sitting on the bench with Solano than Miranda. Castro kind of is who he is: utility guy who isn't going to hit much but will provide competent defense at a lot of different spots. A couple of weeks in AAA might get Miranda back to showing better plate discipline and attacking pitches in the zone with authority. A couple of weeks in AAA probably doesn't change anything for Castro, and his positional flexibility gives him utility in the late innings as a defensive replacement or pinch runner.

Sending him down last year worked great.  Of course, I am kidding because he was back up immediately.  However, maybe it will be a wakeup call.

many of us did not support trading away that much for Mahle.  He just is not that big of an impact.  For me it was that last years team just did not warrant a big deadline push that traded away good long-term assets.  Yes, many said we were in first place and had to go for it.  To me, they may have been in first place but they were not even remotely a contender.

[Fire Dan Gladden]

14 hours ago, Linus said:

Play the best players. The Show isn’t where you learn how to play this game although watching the Twins young players would suggest otherwise. I want to win games so that means Farmer is the starting 3rd baseman until further notice. Miranda can go to St Paul and prove that he should be given another chance or not. People are so worried about prospects that they literally want to adopt strategies that will lose more games to nurture some prospect. Let the prospects play well enough to push the starter out until then they are just suspects. 

Stop bringing logic to an emotional argument.

[Fred]

23 hours ago, Rosterman said:

Is Miranda a part of the Twins future? The pluses: he could play first base or third base, and slot into fullt-time DH when the time comes.

But does he need to work on some things now, similar to issues Trevor Larnach might be facing? Yes. Can he do it at the big league level? Possibly. Do we, as a team, feel more comfortable having Farmer and Castro playing third for the short-term, if Mrianda does go down? Yes. 

The Twins offense is in a bubble right now. Players like Miranda, Larnach, Gordon, Kirilloff, Jeffers ALL have to prove they are worthy of the long-term plans for the team. Like Kepler and Polanco are currently fighting to remain Twins after this season, he aforementioned names have to be looking over their shoulder, wondering who might replace them in the very near future, or next year at best.

All we know is that Correa is at shortstop, and it would be nice to have an occasional sub for the guy. Edouard Julien is on the cusp, but can he push Polanco off second base now or in the future? They seem to playing him there, although there was talk about getting reps in at first base.

The Twins have three guys: Lee, Martin and Lewis. None of the to have an occasional sub for the guy. e three will probably make an imapct this season. Lewis will have to be pencilled in somewhere come the start of 2024 with Martin and Lee right behind. Is Lee the third baseman of the future, with Martin going to an outfield/utility role? Where does Lewis end up in the scheme of things.

Last year Miranda also started rough. He went down and came back strong. But the whole team (and much of the league) seems to be struggling, too. If Farmer can hold down the fort for two weeks or a month, I say...go for it. But right now waiting to see what Kirilloff brings to a sleepy lineup.

I know I'm in the minority, but it's better to trade a guy too early than it is to trade him too late. I think they have 2 or 3 young prospects to hold down 2nd base. Therefore I think trading Polanco now for a good haul would be a smart move (before his leg and ankle problems resurface).

I am a huge Miranda fan, but, yes, they have to figure out how to get his bat going or he has little value. Has anyone else questioned whether they need to get his vision checked? I am probably wrong, but sometimes he looks like people I know with ill fitting contacts.

[roger]

1 hour ago, chpettit19 said:

Lewis is now in Wichita on a rehab assignment. He's playing SS and 3B to start, but they haven't ruled out the OF in the future. I'd think Miranda should be hearing footsteps at this point as Lewis started his rehab stint Saturday (if I'm remembering correctly) and only gets 20 days. So the Lewis decision will come before the end of May. I'd think if he's mashing, and playing everyday. by the end of the month, and Miranda is still swinging at everything, Miranda will be replaced by Lewis at 3B.

Edit: I was wrong, they announced Sunday that he'll start his rehab on Thursday. So they have 20 days from Thursday which puts them at the last day of May if my math is correct.

Thanks, chpettit19.  Also saw that in this morning's Strib.  Turns out May 31 is also tied to when he can come off the 60-day IL.  Seemed to indicate he would be in Wichita for part of the rehab, then move up to the Saints.  

I really expect Lewis to play like last year, which means he will be deserving of a starting spot.  God knows the Twins need somebody, anybody to start hitting the ball.  Biggest question, if Lewis' natural position with Correa at short is third, what does the future hold for Miranda?  

[Fred]

53 minutes ago, jmlease1 said:

Trading CES was a risk and it's not paying off with Mahle unreliable because of injury. His bat has the potential to be impressive and he was the piece I was most concerned about losing. But I do think if people are up in arms at Miranda's defense at 3B then CES would have really made people crazy. He's pretty dreadful defensively, which is probably why he's only played 2 games at 3B for Cincy this season. I don't think he's going to stick there.

I think I would send Miranda down at this point. He's slumping badly and needs a reset. Farmer can slot in at 3B and I think other posters are right that it's preferable to have Castro sitting on the bench with Solano than Miranda. Castro kind of is who he is: utility guy who isn't going to hit much but will provide competent defense at a lot of different spots. A couple of weeks in AAA might get Miranda back to showing better plate discipline and attacking pitches in the zone with authority. A couple of weeks in AAA probably doesn't change anything for Castro, and his positional flexibility gives him utility in the late innings as a defensive replacement or pinch runner.

At one point the Twins had Encarcion-Strand, Steer, Miranda, and Julien in the minors. There's no room for that much fumble-handedness on a ball field. Something had to give. 

[jmlease1]

Just now, Fred said:

At one point the Twins had Encarcion-Strand, Steer, Miranda, and Julien in the minors. There's no room for that much fumble-handedness on a ball field. Something had to give. 

Steer ain't so bad defensively? LOL. (Ok, he's probably the best of the 4. Barely. Just above Miranda.) It's definitely part of why Steer & CES were available to be traded, along with Lewis, Martin, and Lee coming in the next wave.

[chpettit19]

11 minutes ago, roger said:

Thanks, chpettit19.  Also saw that in this morning's Strib.  Turns out May 31 is also tied to when he can come off the 60-day IL.  Seemed to indicate he would be in Wichita for part of the rehab, then move up to the Saints.  

I really expect Lewis to play like last year, which means he will be deserving of a starting spot.  God knows the Twins need somebody, anybody to start hitting the ball.  Biggest question, if Lewis' natural position with Correa at short is third, what does the future hold for Miranda?  

It's going to be interesting to see what they do with Lewis. I'm a supporter of him being the new MAT, and starting in CF the majority of the time now that Buxton seems to be a long ways from being an everyday CFer. I think Lee is actually the one who takes 3B. Miranda may end up being the backup 1B/3B moving forward. It's going to be very interesting to see what they do with everyone.

[Eephus]

On 5/7/2023 at 9:23 AM, Bigfork Twins Guy said:

Defensively I like Farmer (and eventually Lewis or Lee) at 3B.  Miranda had a few errors yesterday and just does not look comfortable there.  I will say he has been good on the slow rollers but gets eaten up on hard hit balls even those right at him and his range is limited.  Combine that with his hitting issues I would send him to STP to clean up some things.  Long term I like Miranda much better than Castro as he does have more upside offensively.

It doesn't help with the eye test that he's playing next to a gold glove shortstop. Correa looks all world next to Miranda, especially on hard hit balls... night and day. Actually a good example of how Correa raises the bar.  Lee seems like a long term solution (Lewis perhaps in the outfield.if Correa stays healthy over the next few years.)

[JD-TWINS]

23 hours ago, DocBauer said:

1] Small correction, Gordon is a LH bat.

2] Lewis is playing SS and 3B in Ft Myers, and is scheduled to remain at those two spots for at least the short term. If I am correct, these are scrimmages at the moment, the actual season doesn't start until around the draft.

3] I also don't believe Miranda's long term future is at 3B, and have said so for a while now. He should be a very nice, almost daily, dangerous RH bat who plays BOTH INF corners and DH. Lee or Lewis should be the 3B of the future, and relatively soon, and there are different roster construction options that make sense for either/both to be the 3B.

I have a hard time will all the negativity that seems to surround a few of the younger players like Miranda and Larnach. Both have a TOTAL of a little over a full season of games played. And yes, injuries have hurt Larnach, as well as AK, but just because either kid hasn't hit .300 and project to 30 HR their first 500AB/162G there is this sentiment of frustration that neither/no-one is ever going to be good, much less a productive, daily member of the lineup. 

Who says? How SUDDEN do these young players have to perform at an All Star level before we have confidence in them? And more importantly, if they aren't allowed to fail some, and grow, how will they ever get better?

All that being said, the Twins are in an enviable position right now where they have the luxury of almost interchangeable pieces to allow temporary re-sets. AK comes up, Larnach goes down, re-set with the idea of coming back ASAP. (Wallner also fits here, though not previously mentioned). Miranda started slow last season and the light switch came on around this time. Can it again? If not...and while a strong arguement can be made to keep him at the ML level to work through things...he can go down for a couple of weeks also for a re-set, keep Castro for now as the last man on the bench, and swap them again 2-3 weeks from now when Miranda gets on a role. 

The kids need opportunity to learn, grow  and produce at the ML level. But it's an enviable spot for the Twins to be able to roll through a collection of talented youngsters to grant them these opportunities as well as the luxury of re-sets to get rolling again.

Miranda - Larnach - Gordon all have nice potential upside for rest of season. Gotta get more disciplined and swing at strikes to be able to be in line—up daily.

Larnach looks smoother than the other two. He misses pitches down & the other two have no discipline up & out of the zone up! All gotta improve.

[jmlease1]

1 hour ago, chpettit19 said:

It's going to be interesting to see what they do with Lewis. I'm a supporter of him being the new MAT, and starting in CF the majority of the time now that Buxton seems to be a long ways from being an everyday CFer. I think Lee is actually the one who takes 3B. Miranda may end up being the backup 1B/3B moving forward. It's going to be very interesting to see what they do with everyone.

I could see that as an option for next season? But MAT has been hitting well enough that combined with his defense in CF that it seems unlikely that he'll get pushed out soon.

I tend to agree that Brooks Lee sure looks like the eventual starter at 3B

[chpettit19]

24 minutes ago, jmlease1 said:

I could see that as an option for next season? But MAT has been hitting well enough that combined with his defense in CF that it seems unlikely that he'll get pushed out soon.

I tend to agree that Brooks Lee sure looks like the eventual starter at 3B

Yeah, I'm not saying right away, but long-term role. Right now the most likely immediate spot for him is looking like 3B unless Miranda gets himself straightened out before the end of the month.

[Shaitan]

3 hours ago, TopGunn#22 said:

Thanks for clarifying chpettit.  Lewis will make a lot of this speculation moot when he's ready to come up to the big club.  

Nah, by then TD will be calling for Correa to be traded because there's too much depth again.

[ashbury]

3 hours ago, jmlease1 said:

Steer ain't so bad defensively? LOL. (Ok, he's probably the best of the 4. Barely. Just above Miranda.) It's definitely part of why Steer & CES were available to be traded, along with Lewis, Martin, and Lee coming in the next wave.

Concur.  I posted this elsewhere in a Mahle thread, but a week ago I watched the Reds in Oakland and they played Steer at first base, and even there he looked stiff and failed a couple of times to do what he intended.  He probably has a major league bat but if you start profiling as a DH even that bar is very high, and unless he steps it up a lot in some dimension of his game he's not going to be a big loss to us.

[awmonahan]

Taking 92 mph often your face is not easy, so I think they'll need to ease Farmer back in. We don't know if he'll comfortably stand in the batters box yet. To ease him in, you give him Castro's spot and let Miranda know he's on the clock. If he can't clean things up and Farmer is a go, then you look at your options, which by that point could be: Castro, Lewis, Lee, etc. Doing this also signals to Miranda that he's in long term plans, which I think could help him out, though I obviously don't know the guy. 

This is my best guess. I'm just hoping they handle thus well and don't mess up Miranda for short term gains.

[tony&rodney]

5 hours ago, awmonahan said:

We don't know if he'll comfortably stand in the batters box yet.

Just an FYI, but Farmer has looked pretty good at AAA. The pitchers in AAA throw just as hard but have less command and control. Farmer swinging a good stick in AAA seems to indicate that he does not have any residual glitches in facing pitchers.

[Mike Sixel]

I see no need for Solano when Farmer is back. Castro can play multiple positions.

That said, it might be time to give Miranda a few weeks in AAA....

[wabene]

I don't know if I'd call the Mahle trade a mistake, but as was posted above even though they were in first place, they weren't a contender. CES was the one who really caught my eye with his bat in the minors, so that hurts. Steer and Hajar were two I was watching as well. This does sting and Mahle not being forthcoming with his status hasn't helped. 

[mickster]

Castro, Solano and Gordon should be gone by the All-Star break.   Castro or Solano are gone when Farmer is back.   Lewis will make the other expendable and Gordon takes on the Castro bench role until an injury and then Castro comes up from AAA.    We are a better team with Farmer, Lee, and insert another prospect here over Castro, Solano and Gordon

[jmlease1]

1 hour ago, wabene said:

I don't know if I'd call the Mahle trade a mistake, but as was posted above even though they were in first place, they weren't a contender. CES was the one who really caught my eye with his bat in the minors, so that hurts. Steer and Hajar were two I was watching as well. This does sting and Mahle not being forthcoming with his status hasn't helped. 

I dunno, Since anything can happen in a short series, I kinda look at it where if you can make the playoffs you're a contender (even if you're not one of the favorites). I respect the process behind the Mahle trade and the aggression in trying to get us over the top. I'm more forgiving of trades/signings that have that kind of process behind them.

Hajjar was interesting, but has real control issues that might limit him to the bullpen (and hasn't pitched yet in 2023, which is worrisome). CES was the key player for me, and while his best position is "hitter" his bat might be special. But you gotta give to get and Mahle looked like a valuable player. It's disappointing that injury has made him someone you can't rely on now. Has he not been forthcoming this season? The elbow problem seems new, but I haven't heard anything about it being an issue for a while.

Not sure Steer would have changed much in the calculus on Miranda, except that maybe we don't sign Castro? Does someone like Steer push Miranda back down to AAA or is it a "slightly higher floor, much lower ceiling" comp that doesn't make much difference?

Farmer's ability to come back quickly and hit at AAA has impressed me. that was a BAD hit and right now it doesn't seem to be in his head at all. I think if he's ready to come back I let Miranda go down and get his head and swing right.