Ober Optioned as Opening Day Roster Becomes More Clear

[wabene]

People complaining about Sands making the roster over Ober are not considering that they don't play the same position. As mentioned Sands is on the 94 shuttle while Ober is in a controlled environment, incubating. 

[stringer bell]

1 hour ago, Doctor Gast said:

I really can't say I'm surprised but I'm really really disappointed. Unfortunately Baldelli doesn't share the same definition of long relief as mine. My definition of true long relief is the extension of the rotation where 1 SP is not able to complete 5 innings and another SP comes in & pitches 3-5 innings on a regular basis. The mentality of long relief should the same as the SP and that's to win the game. And someone who in a pinch, can spot start. Baldelli's idea of long relief is a glorified low leverage short RP, pitching 2 innings at a time, once in awhile.

I saw them pitch Maeda in a relief role. (intentionally or unintentionally) He had difficulty adapting his 1st inning which IMO put the nail in Ober's coffin. Ober said he'd do anything to come up with the club, why wasn't he tried to come in after a SP to see how well he fared. If had fared well he could have been plugged into long relief on a regular basis of 3-5 innings & chances to win games for the club. Ober pitched well enough not to be sent down to AAA, and Sands isn't good enough.

Castro will be an asset to the club, with his versatility, glove & LH INF bat. He should be given ample time at 2B until Polanco comes back. Farmer is our best 2B sub but with Miranda's shoulder & he's our best sub at SS, he'd be busy at those positions. IMO Castro is behind Farmer at 2B.

According to your specifications for long relief, what happens when that guy goes 4-5 innings, how long is he down, so that there's no long reliever? Extending a guy that long pretty much rules him out for as long as the short starter is out and the bullpen is short for the duration. How many times is this guy going to be able to aid in a win? With five quality starters, how many short starts will occur? 

I think that the proper role for Ober is in the starting rotation and he will get his chance probably sooner than later. I don't think a piggyback scenario is really works either. It would leave the bullpen one short of what every other club has. Maeda probably threw more innings in Florida than any Twins pitcher. He's stretched out enough, so that if he's effective, he can give the club six innings. I think we all want to take too much out of performances in exhibition games. It probably matters for guys who are competing for jobs, but established starting pitchers are working on specific pitches or situations.

If they are lucky, the Twins will probably use eight or nine starters, unless they trade for one. Bailey Ober will get plenty of starts and I think he'll establish himself as a solid starting pitcher going forward. He hasn't pitched a lot of professional innings and we probably don't know how durable he will be. It looks like he will be effective when he is able to pitch.

I don't get the front office's Pagan love. He just hasn't been effective in years. He doesn't have good enough command or secondary pitches to be above average. 

[HerbieFan]

We get way too worked up about what the Opening Day roster looks like.  In a month it'll look different.  Couple weeks after that, it'll look different again.....

[I wish the twins were good]

8 hours ago, h2oface said:

Pagan and Sands coming in for relief? Now, that is scary.

Willie Castro? Add him to a bunch of backups that don't hit much, some who will be starting because of injuries.

I hope the pitchers make the gamble all worth it. They will need to be real good to make up for a lack of offense.

Coloumbe was clearly deserving of pagan's spot after the spring they both had. Pagan continues to live rent free in the minds of falvine. Actually they are paying him 3.5 million for the privilege. And why not dobnak in long relief instead of sands?

[I wish the twins were good]

48 minutes ago, HerbieFan said:

We get way too worked up about what the Opening Day roster looks like.  In a month it'll look different.  Couple weeks after that, it'll look different again.....

But it does make a statement of confidence to the players which I'm sure is not nothing to them. Ober has a deserved chip on his shoulder now. Why create the unnecessary animosity with the players. Let the most deserving guys get the roster spots stop playing games

[wabene]

8 minutes ago, I wish the twins were good said:

But it does make a statement of confidence to the players which I'm sure is not nothing to them. Ober has a deserved chip on his shoulder now. Why create the unnecessary animosity with the players. Let the most deserving guys get the roster spots stop playing games

I doubt Ober is wasting any energy on thoughts like that. He knows as well as you or I about him being the only starter in the top 6 with an option. The only starter with zero track record for durability. He knows if he performs this year and holds up, he will have the inside track on a rotation spot next year. The young man will keep his head down and work. His opportunities are just ahead of him. 

[tarheeltwinsfan]

I'm especially disappointed for Ober and Coulombe. They both deserve to be on the 26 man roster. This is based on spring training and past years' performances. Sands and Pagan do not deserve to be on the 26 man roster. This is based on spring training and past performances.   I'm glad  Castro  made the team, but hopefully it will be short lived, due to Polo returning. Who gets sent down if both Polo and Alex K. return, ready to play? I understand Castro will be sent down, but  who would be the second player to be sent down?  Solano? Looking at this dilemma, I suggest that the front office may not expect Alex K. or Polo to return.  I agree that as soon as P. Lopez was signed, Ober was going to be optioned,  no matter how well he pitched in spring training, unless there was an injury to one of the other 5 SP's.  Question: If Ober is going to be used sparingly in AAA in order to save him for the late summer and the fall, then why not place him at long relief now? Are the Twins wanting to find out what they have in Maeda, so if he is not effective, they can move him (Maeda) to long relief and bring back Ober to start games?

[stringer bell]

8 minutes ago, tarheeltwinsfan said:

 I'm glad  Castro  made the team, but hopefully it will be short lived, due to Polo returning. Who gets sent down if both Polo and Alex K. return, ready to play? I understand Castro will be sent down, but  who would be the second player to be sent down?  Solano? Looking at this dilemma, I suggest that the front office may not expect Alex K. or Polo to return.  

I think bringing up Castro indicates one of Kirilloff or Polanco will be ready to go sooner rather than later. If the Twins saw a long-term absence for both, I think they'd be more comfortable selecting Garlick, even though he is out of options and would have to be exposed if they had to take him off the active roster. Castro can be optioned.

[stringer bell]

3 hours ago, wabene said:

People complaining about Sands making the roster over Ober are not considering that they don't play the same position. As mentioned Sands is on the 94 shuttle while Ober is in a controlled environment, incubating. 

Sands has not impressed IMHO, but he can throw perhaps 50-60 pitches, is on the 40-man roster and has an option remaining. I don't expect him to last through April, perhaps losing his 40-man spot. Sands has a pretty good slide, but he doesn't have good enough stuff and  control/command to often make it a chase pitch.

[I wish the twins were good]

35 minutes ago, wabene said:

I doubt Ober is wasting any energy on thoughts like that. He knows as well as you or I about him being the only starter in the top 6 with an option. The only starter with zero track record for durability. He knows if he performs this year and holds up, he will have the inside track on a rotation spot next year. The young man will keep his head down and work. His opportunities are just ahead of him. 

There is a quote in the recent athletic article about him saying he vents his frustrations to his wife. What do you think they're talking about? He grouses about his bosses at his job like everybody else does!

[I wish the twins were good]

55 minutes ago, I wish the twins were good said:

Coloumbe was clearly deserving of pagan's spot after the spring they both had. Pagan continues to live rent free in the minds of falvine. Actually they are paying him 3.5 million for the privilege. And why not dobnak in long relief instead of sands?

They are truly embarrassing themselves with the pagan thing at this point. I'm at a complete loss. You'd think the Minnesota twins would jump at the chance to save a few million it defies explanation 

[Schmoeman5]

20 minutes ago, I wish the twins were good said:

There is a quote in the recent athletic article about him saying he vents his frustrations to his wife. What do you think they're talking about? He grouses about his bosses at his job like everybody else does!

The players all know the deal. I know he's p o at not making it. And his teammates empathize with him I'm sure. They see and know who's deserving but they also understand the business side too. Every time I hear a gm or manager talk I believe about 1% of what they say in regards to a players status or where they'll fit in

[wabene]

6 hours ago, I wish the twins were good said:

There is a quote in the recent athletic article about him saying he vents his frustrations to his wife. What do you think they're talking about? He grouses about his bosses at his job like everybody else does!

Ober said his wife was good at grounding him. Maybe she told him that Sands wasn't a starter, so him being upset about Sands making the roster over him was like him being upset about Carlos Correa making the roster over him. 

Maybe she told him that he may have pitched better than Mahle and Maeda this spring, but they don't have options and they do have extensive track records of being reliable and durable starting pitchers, which he has not yet proven. 

In that article Bailey talked about being the underdog his whole life and having to scratch for what he gets. He knows what to do. Work. 

[Doctor Wu]

13 hours ago, old nurse said:

I could be wrong but it doesn’t seem like the starters have pitched many innings this spring. They may need another long reliever to go with Sands at the start of the season. If there are a lot of 4 inning starts to the season the bullpen might be overused by May. Once the starters get going it should be less of a problem. 

I think you are right. Just from box score watching, it seems like the starters are pitching more innings earlier in the spring already, and that's not only the Twins. 

[Doctor Wu]

Biggest surprise for me was Sands making the cut instead of some like Coulombe or Hoffman. And yes, we are all wondering about the continuing presence of Pagan. We can only hope that he harnesses his "stuff" and makes fools of all of us non-believers.

[TopGunn#22]

Nicely laid out Seth.  I think Solano is on a very short leash.  He did nothing to impress in ST and unless he hits well right out of the gate I could see him let go as soon as Kirilloff and/or Polanco are ready.  I actually think Castro could stick with his versatility.  I'd love to see Julien up at some point and if he rakes in St. Paul he will be hard to ignore.  I would have liked to see Ober at the #5 starter and Maeda start the season in long relief, or as some have suggested Maeda and Ober used as a consistent piggyback with Maeda starting for 3-4 innings and Ober coming in.  But that does not appear to be the plan.

[FlyingFinn]

3 minutes ago, TopGunn#22 said:

I think Solano is on a very short leash.  He did nothing to impress in ST and unless he hits well right out of the gate I could see him let go as soon as Kirilloff and/or Polanco are ready.  I actually think Castro could stick with his versatility. 

Barring more injuries, I don't think Castro will stick even if he does well as he probably won't get a lot of playing time. When either Kirilloff or Polanco come off the IL, Castro will go down because he has the option.

[David Maro]

I can't see Sands over Ober. He is a thrower not a pitcher. He has zero control of his pitches,walks himself into trouble. With any luck Ober will be back by game 10 and Sands will be back to St Paul. We need pitchers who throw strikes,not free passes.

[Mike Sixel]

28 minutes ago, David Maro said:

I can't see Sands over Ober. He is a thrower not a pitcher. He has zero control of his pitches,walks himself into trouble. With any luck Ober will be back by game 10 and Sands will be back to St Paul. We need pitchers who throw strikes,not free passes.

Those two aren't competing for a spot, are they?

[jmlease1]

15 minutes ago, David Maro said:

I can't see Sands over Ober. He is a thrower not a pitcher. He has zero control of his pitches,walks himself into trouble. With any luck Ober will be back by game 10 and Sands will be back to St Paul. We need pitchers who throw strikes,not free passes.

As has been noted: Sands is being kept up to relieve. Ober is a starter, and the Twins (correctly) want to keep him stretched out as a starter to be available in case of injury to one of their current starters. We were never going to keep 6 starters, don't think there's a team in baseball that's going to roll out with a 6-man rotation to start the season. And frankly, all that's likely to do is put more stress on the bullpen. While Ober might have looked better in spring training than Maeda, Kenta is a veteran who, when healthy, was excellent for us. It's also much easier to slide him into a relief role if it proves that he doesn't have the ability to be a quality starter any longer after the injury.

I'm a little baffled by the people who think Ed Julien is being wronged in some way by not getting a shot. While I'm really enthusiastic about his talent, let's keep in mind he's faced exactly zero pitches at AAA in his whole career. AA to MLB is a huge jump, even if he has looked good in spring training. With Polanco expected back (I'm also a little shocked at how many people have seemingly already decided that Polanco and Kirilloff are out for the year or something) soon, how much sense does it really make for Julien's development path to throw him in the fire? I mean, it worked so well for Celestino jumping him from AA to MLB! This way makes it easy to hang on to Castro for a couple of weeks and see what they have there and keep Julien on a smarter development path.

We've got two minor injuries coming out of spring training from guys rehabbing injuries that knocked them out last season. That's not all that unusual. Miranda might be limited (but might be fine), and Buxton is just getting a little extra caution (he could play CF in an hour if he needed to) and care in the cold weather start.

I'm feeling pretty good about where this team stands right now. My biggest questions are actually more about whether or not Gallo has himself back on track and how long a leash the front office will give him to get there, and Pagan...who has basically the same question.

The great thing about the team's depth is Nick Gordon slots in easily at 2B against RHP, and Farmer or Solano can spell him against LHP. Larnach slots in easily in LF while Gallo mans 1B. Farmer or Castro can handle 3B if Miranda isn't ready for the field yet. Taylor has CF handled if they choose to give Buxton more time at DH early on. Even with 2 injuries out the gate, we still have no only the starting lineup well covered with established players, we still have backups.

[roger]

How long will it be before Sands goes to St. Paul, Maeda moves to the pen for long relief and Ober is in the starting rotation?  Hopefully, not too long.  Until then, the Saints are going to have one heck'of'a starting rotation.

 

[Brett]

We’re breaking camp without the right side of the infield, and sending down one of our 5 best starters. Yes, we have depth with a bunch of guys I’ve never seen play, so right now they’re just ok to good numbers on a page.

I would have kept Ober and put Maeda in the pen to start out. We know what Sands is now, and I don’t need further proof.

In related news, I’m not in charge. So let’s just play ball and watch the adjustments unfold.

[Mike Sixel]

39 minutes ago, jmlease1 said:

As has been noted: Sands is being kept up to relieve. Ober is a starter, and the Twins (correctly) want to keep him stretched out as a starter to be available in case of injury to one of their current starters. We were never going to keep 6 starters, don't think there's a team in baseball that's going to roll out with a 6-man rotation to start the season. And frankly, all that's likely to do is put more stress on the bullpen. While Ober might have looked better in spring training than Maeda, Kenta is a veteran who, when healthy, was excellent for us. It's also much easier to slide him into a relief role if it proves that he doesn't have the ability to be a quality starter any longer after the injury.

I'm a little baffled by the people who think Ed Julien is being wronged in some way by not getting a shot. While I'm really enthusiastic about his talent, let's keep in mind he's faced exactly zero pitches at AAA in his whole career. AA to MLB is a huge jump, even if he has looked good in spring training. With Polanco expected back (I'm also a little shocked at how many people have seemingly already decided that Polanco and Kirilloff are out for the year or something) soon, how much sense does it really make for Julien's development path to throw him in the fire? I mean, it worked so well for Celestino jumping him from AA to MLB! This way makes it easy to hang on to Castro for a couple of weeks and see what they have there and keep Julien on a smarter development path.

We've got two minor injuries coming out of spring training from guys rehabbing injuries that knocked them out last season. That's not all that unusual. Miranda might be limited (but might be fine), and Buxton is just getting a little extra caution (he could play CF in an hour if he needed to) and care in the cold weather start.

I'm feeling pretty good about where this team stands right now. My biggest questions are actually more about whether or not Gallo has himself back on track and how long a leash the front office will give him to get there, and Pagan...who has basically the same question.

The great thing about the team's depth is Nick Gordon slots in easily at 2B against RHP, and Farmer or Solano can spell him against LHP. Larnach slots in easily in LF while Gallo mans 1B. Farmer or Castro can handle 3B if Miranda isn't ready for the field yet. Taylor has CF handled if they choose to give Buxton more time at DH early on. Even with 2 injuries out the gate, we still have no only the starting lineup well covered with established players, we still have backups.

Several players have made rosters from AA this spring on other teams. The good argument you make is that polanco is likely back in ten days or so. If he's out a month, I'd like to see Julien get a shot. He had upside. But I like giving Gordon a shot, if he's not in the outfield. 

[Mike Sixel]

26 minutes ago, roger said:

How long will it be before Sands goes to St. Paul, Maeda moves to the pen for long relief and Ober is in the starting rotation?  Hopefully, not too long.  Until then, the Saints are going to have one heck'of'a starting rotation.

 

Hopefully Maeda is great, and they don't need Ober soon. 

[Jeff K]

21 hours ago, LewFordLives said:

That just ain't right. Who gives the Twins a better chance of winning right now....Maeda or Ober?  Maeda has not pitched in a year and a half, and he is most likely gone after this year. He has been terrible so far this spring, whereas Ober has been solid. Let Maeda work out the rust from the bullpen.

I agree with your comments.  I would also add that if Ober is a starter and Maeda is a reliever, then someone has to be sent down or released to make room.  Dump Pagan.  I know, such a unique idea.  Also, I could quibble that Coulombe ought to make the team rather than Sands.

[Danchat]

36 minutes ago, roger said:

How long will it be before Sands goes to St. Paul, Maeda moves to the pen for long relief and Ober is in the starting rotation?  Hopefully, not too long.  Until then, the Saints are going to have one heck'of'a starting rotation.

 

Sands will be back in AAA sooner than later, but Maeda is probably going to get a decently long leash. I’m 90% sure Ober will be up due to an injury rather than Maeda flopping. 

[jmlease1]

53 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Several players have made rosters from AA this spring on other teams. The good argument you make is that polanco is likely back in ten days or so. If he's out a month, I'd like to see Julien get a shot. He had upside. But I like giving Gordon a shot, if he's not in the outfield. 

It certainly happens, and sometimes it even goes very well. Other times jumping guys straight from AA goes...poorly. My point is that it's hardly a sin to think Julien might be better off starting the season in AAA rather than jumping him straight in to MLB just because he looked good in spring training and had a breakthrough minor league season.

I'm sure we will see Julien this season. And I think he's going to do well and get on base even in MLB. But I think they're making the smart play by starting him in AAA.

[KirbyDome89]

"And we know that over the course of the season, Ober will make a lot of starts for the Twins as well."

We do?

[I wish the twins were good]

7 hours ago, wabene said:

Ober said his wife was good at grounding him. Maybe she told him that Sands wasn't a starter, so him being upset about Sands making the roster over him was like him being upset about Carlos Correa making the roster over him. 

Maybe she told him that he may have pitched better than Mahle and Maeda this spring, but they don't have options and they do have extensive track records of being reliable and durable starting pitchers, which he has not yet proven. 

In that article Bailey talked about being the underdog his whole life and having to scratch for what he gets. He knows what to do. Work. 

He'll be up sooner than later. My only real concern is they don't have Maeda and/or Mahle on a short enough leash if they're struggling. I've got reasonable confidence in the other three for now. If they were willing to stick it out with Pagan all year after that mess, I gotta think there's no way they don't let those two try and fight through it even if it looks obvious to everyone else they got nothing in the tank. 

[KirbyDome89]

17 hours ago, wabene said:

Ober is in a controlled environment, incubating. 

There isn't any development left for Ober in AAA. It's not like he'll be sitting on ice in St. Paul either, he's going to be throwing innings, which history tells us are limited in his case. Yes, Sands and Ober play different positions, but they're linked as far as roster construction goes. I'd rather see the Twins try to max Ober's healthy innings than hide Cole Sands at the back end of a bullpen.