Trevor Bauer

[jmlease1]

Pretty much everything about Bauer screams "garbage fire". Borderline criminal sexual conduct (no, he wasn't convicted of anything, or charged...which is why I say "borderline") that many people find unacceptable, expressed bigotry on social media, evidence of being a bad and disruptive teammate. Even if you find all of that excusable (I don't), you still have to question whether or not he'd even be any good.

Personally, I don't need to look at whether or not he might have anything left in the tank...I don't want this guy. Too many red flags. He's basically a walking red flag. Part of why we kept chasing after Carlos Correa was the team looked at him as a being a leader, mentor, and role model on the team and in the community. Bauer has none of those things. Anyone bringing him in invites a media circus that by definition can't be good. He's never shown remorse for anything or any interest in changing.

I don't care how cheap he might be, I don't care if he might still be able to throw the ball real good. I don't want Trevor Bauer on this team.

[bap3141]

2 hours ago, DFlow said:

Would like to point out that "clubhouse vibes" are extremely overblown. The Twins and Wild have had great locker rooms over the past few years to achieve........nothing. The reality is that with Correa, the Twins are still the 15th best overall fWAR team all included. Unsurprisingly, it's ugly when isolating just the pitching staff. They don't have immediate prospects or remaining free agents who could improve those number substantially. Barring an unforeseen major trade unloading prospect capital, we need to make some decisions as we have given up a lot of prospect capital as it stands for 2023 (see Gray and Mahle trades). 

I'm not a big fan of Bauer, but the Dodgers are paying his salary this year already. For 2-3 million from our end, you get substantial value that could meaningfully benefit your roster without sacrificing the prospect pipeline.  I personally wish we could have closed Rodon and not be in this position at all, but we wont win in October with this rotation as it stands. There is also not an arbitration level pitcher who would be better than Bauer (no Pablo Lopez is not better). 

 

I don't agree that clubhouse vibes are overrated.  Sure, a great clubhouse doesn't guarantee winning. But it only takes one bad seed to create a toxic one and a bad clubhouse very rarely, if ever, leads to success.  

[DFlow]

8 minutes ago, bap3141 said:

I don't agree that clubhouse vibes are overrated.  Sure, a great clubhouse doesn't guarantee winning. But it only takes one bad seed to create a toxic one and a bad clubhouse very rarely, if ever, leads to success.  

Great clubhouses matter when you have the personnel to make it matter. For the past 17 years, the Twins have not invested in frontline playoff pitching. We have had wonderful clubhouses and people who were on those teams to absolutely zero success. Even with Correa, this would only be a playoff team due to a garbage division. The Correa parade blew the Twins chance to land impact starting pitching on the FA market, and it's unlikely the Twins can acquire the type of starter they need in a trade (again Pablo Lopez is not an upgrade). 

Further- whoever takes Bauer moving forward can be his last chance moving forward with one slip up. He's not going to blow that if given the chance. I hate that its come to making a decision like this for the 17th straight offseason, but it's better than wasting 10 million on Dylan Bundy/Chris Archer.

[bap3141]

2 minutes ago, DFlow said:

Great clubhouses matter when you have the personnel to make it matter. For the past 17 years, the Twins have not invested in frontline playoff pitching. We have had wonderful clubhouses and people who were on those teams to absolutely zero success. Even with Correa, this would only be a playoff team due to a garbage division. The Correa parade blew the Twins chance to land impact starting pitching on the FA market, and it's unlikely the Twins can acquire the type of starter they need in a trade (again Pablo Lopez is not an upgrade). 

Further- whoever takes Bauer moving forward can be his last chance moving forward with one slip up. He's not going to blow that if given the chance. I hate that its come to making a decision like this for the 17th straight offseason, but it's better than wasting 10 million on Dylan Bundy/Chris Archer.

I think you're missing the point. Nobody ever wins with a bad clubhouse.

[DFlow]

12 minutes ago, bap3141 said:

I think you're missing the point. Nobody ever wins with a bad clubhouse.

MLB: Barry Bonds, Manny Ramirez, A-Rod, Kevin Brown all come to mind. 

Plenty of other cases in NFL, NHL, and NBA that have worked too. 

It's pretty clear that plenty of locker room problems have won rings or made it to the big game. If you make a problem the leader, then its an issue. Donaldson signed a fat deal and flopped as a leader. If others in the locker room take the reins than it can work (all of the MLB guys above have rings). If it doesn't work you just DFA him obviously which would effectively end his career. 

Again- this should have been hashed out in FA with a quality frontline pitcher. Now that we are here, it's better than Dylan Bundy/Chris Archer. 

[IA Bean Counter]

The Twins are still looking for that #1 pitcher . . . Bauer in glimpses has been that pitcher. However with the baggage, with being a poor teammate I just don’t see the need to take the chance.  I am generally willing to give 2nd chances.  Bauer has been given multiple opportunities to mature, and just hasn’t shown the ability to do that. The Twins need to take risks to be competitive, this isn’t one they should take.  

[Parfigliano]

Skip Bauer.  Go with the young pitching they have and the returning wounded.  The Twins have SS, C, and CF locked in for the foreseeable  future.  Arraez can get on base and hopefully Miranda develops further.  Time to see what the rest of the kids can do.

[mrtwinsfan]

On 12/25/2022 at 10:11 AM, Bigfork Twins Guy said:

Thanks for the correction.  I couldn’t recall his name and being an old timer Bell is the one that popped into my mind.

I believed ya, im a  youngster also 76, Still in Bigfork ? love that area , We Hunt- Fish deer lake just north of ya east of Effie

[bap3141]

6 hours ago, DFlow said:

MLB: Barry Bonds, Manny Ramirez, A-Rod, Kevin Brown all come to mind. 

Plenty of other cases in NFL, NHL, and NBA that have worked too. 

It's pretty clear that plenty of locker room problems have won rings or made it to the big game. If you make a problem the leader, then its an issue. Donaldson signed a fat deal and flopped as a leader. If others in the locker room take the reins than it can work (all of the MLB guys above have rings). If it doesn't work you just DFA him obviously which would effectively end his career. 

Again- this should have been hashed out in FA with a quality frontline pitcher. Now that we are here, it's better than Dylan Bundy/Chris Archer. 

Oh please.  Now you're confusing players that did bad or unethical things with a person that is disliked by his teammates.  These guys may have cheated or been surly but with the exception of A-Rod they were either respected or loved by their teammates,  Not undermining snakes with toxic personalities that disrupt team chemistry. 

Barry Bonds was loved by his teammates, with the exception of Jeff Kent -- who was, by all accounts a grade-A jerk.  And those teams won nothing.  Manny Ramirez was also very well liked.  A-Rod? Perfect example of how he held a team back that could (should) have won many championships. But even then, the level to which he was a toxic teammate was vastly overstated by the New York media.  Kevin Brown?  No.  And are you seriously comparing those guys to an accused rapist with a history of being disliked by teammates?  

Give me a break.  A toxic personality is not good for any team, sports or otherwise.  And there's a huge difference between a toxic person and a person that cheats. Bauer just so happens to be both.  

[EGFTShaw]

Ah WTH...

I'll jump in.

First, I think Falvey should have some experience with Bauer as a player since he came from Cleveland.

That said, I'll address the "he hasn't pitched in XXX long" stream.  If you are picking up for $600K (which I doubt it will be that low), then you have virtually no risk.  You have an experienced and seasoned pitcher, who does study the craft/art of pitching and was good enough for the LAD to offer that monster contract.

Teammate: Again, Falvey should have an idea, but he has been with 2 other clubs since Cleveland, the Reds and Dodgers so checking in with both of those teams is a must if you are considering Bauer.  Contentious isn't reason to not sign a talent.  Some very good ball players had contentious relationships with the press and teammates.

Charges: Don't overestimate what the independent arbitrator was reviewing.  He was not reviewing the documents to see if Bauer was guilty of sexual abuse or any other criminal offense, he was reviewing Bauer's action within the context of the MLB's domestic violence policy.  You can be suspended/fined if you are in violation of the policy regardless if you are criminally guilty.

Personally, any convicted of domestic violence in my book deserves a stiff penalty and strict guidelines to be reinstated.

But the bottom line on this is simply something that all good club FOs should do every time they are looking at player to add to their organization.

Due Diligence.

In Bauer's case it is complicated and yes Public Opinion goes a long way today in determining the viability of a new player being added.

I don't think he gets added unless it is a multi-year deal with Team Options and some very strict guidelines and public service duty to help rehabilitate his public image like working to become the face of DV Awareness within the MN Twins region.

If any of the aforementioned items fail to pass due diligence or you are not satisfied, then no way.

Too often, (hello Browns of the NFL), the idea of Winning/Talent is put a higher priority than the quality of the person.  I do not ever want the Twins to put winning above this.  

[In My La Z boy]

9 minutes ago, EGFTShaw said:

Ah WTH...

I'll jump in.

First, I think Falvey should have some experience with Bauer as a player since he came from Cleveland.

That said, I'll address the "he hasn't pitched in XXX long" stream.  If you are picking up for $600K (which I doubt it will be that low), then you have virtually no risk.  You have an experienced and seasoned pitcher, who does study the craft/art of pitching and was good enough for the LAD to offer that monster contract.

Teammate: Again, Falvey should have an idea, but he has been with 2 other clubs since Cleveland, the Reds and Dodgers so checking in with both of those teams is a must if you are considering Bauer.  Contentious isn't reason to not sign a talent.  Some very good ball players had contentious relationships with the press and teammates.

Charges: Don't overestimate what the independent arbitrator was reviewing.  He was not reviewing the documents to see if Bauer was guilty of sexual abuse or any other criminal offense, he was reviewing Bauer's action within the context of the MLB's domestic violence policy.  You can be suspended/fined if you are in violation of the policy regardless if you are criminally guilty.

Personally, any convicted of domestic violence in my book deserves a stiff penalty and strict guidelines to be reinstated.

But the bottom line on this is simply something that all good club FOs should do every time they are looking at player to add to their organization.

Due Diligence.

In Bauer's case it is complicated and yes Public Opinion goes a long way today in determining the viability of a new player being added.

I don't think he gets added unless it is a multi-year deal with Team Options and some very strict guidelines and public service duty to help rehabilitate his public image like working to become the face of DV Awareness within the MN Twins region.

If any of the aforementioned items fail to pass due diligence or you are not satisfied, then no way.

Too often, (hello Browns of the NFL), the idea of Winning/Talent is put a higher priority than the quality of the person.  I do not ever want the Twins to put winning above this.  

I like this. What you are saying to Twins fans is...Falvey is THE most qualified person to make this decision, and we should keep an open mind until he makes a decision. Between Falvey's own personal due diligence, and discussions with Rocco and team leaders, and others around the league, if he pulled the trigger on Bauer, Twins fans should be on board. 

Guessing you'll get a lot of disagreement here. Not from me. Trust Falvey, or fire him. Trust Rocco, or fire him. My personal belief is there is ZERO chance this happens. But if it did, I'd have to figure Falvey knows something, and he thinks it will be great, so I would hold my fire and watch and see.

[JoeCool]

Bring him in on a one year deal. Make the contract language contingent on his behavior both on and off the field. Make it contingent on the type of teammate he will be in the clubhouse. He has more to lose if he messes up again. Low risk and high reward.  
 

if you subscribe to his YouTube channel I think he is more so an awkward personality and was a bit full of himself. I think we can could sign and even trade him at a high value if he performs. If he is a cancer we cut him and his career will be over.  If he performs though he really could do a lot for this team. 

[strumdatjag]

OK.   What about Ron LeFlore?   He was sent to prison for Armed Robbery and then had a good mlb career.  Oh, we need everyone to be Mr Congeniality in the clubhouse?   Then, what about all those years with AJ Pierzynski behind the plate and in the clubhouse - as Ozzie Guillen said, when he’s on your team, you hate him less. 
And finally, what about Carlos Correa himself?   He was a fixture on the Trashcan cheating  Astros.  That was obviously one of the reasons he had fewer suitors and settled for less money in this venture for a Dior contract.  I like this deal, but let’s not pat ourselves too much for being so virtuous. 
And don’t get started about “what-aboutisms.””   How else are double standards illustrated?

[Squirrel]

4 minutes ago, strumdatjag said:

OK.   What about Ron LeFlore?   He was sent to prison for Armed Robbery and then had a good mlb career.  Oh, we need everyone to be Mr Congeniality in the clubhouse?   Then, what about all those years with AJ Pierzynski behind the plate and in the clubhouse - as Ozzie Guillen said, when he’s on your team, you hate him less. 
And finally, what about Carlos Correa himself?   He was a fixture on the Trashcan cheating  Astros.  That was obviously one of the reasons he had fewer suitors and settled for less money in this venture for a Dior contract.  I like this deal, but let’s not pat ourselves too much for being so virtuous. 
And don’t get started about “what-aboutisms.””   How else are double standards illustrated?

This thread will not be turned into one big ‘what about’. It doesn’t prove your point and each situation is different from one another so stop obfuscating the situation with Bauer. Keep your comments to who Bauer is as a pitcher, a teammate and MLB player.

Consider this a moderator warning to all. This isn’t about anyone else but Bauer. Stop ‘whatabouting’. 

[strumdatjag]

8 minutes ago, Squirrel said:

This thread will not be turned into one big ‘what about’. It doesn’t prove your point and each situation is different from one another so stop obfuscating the situation with Bauer. Keep your comments to who Bauer is as a pitcher, a teammate and MLB player.

Consider this a moderator warning to all. This isn’t about anyone else but Bauer. Stop ‘whatabouting’. 

I predicted the “what about-ism” premise  would be raised. - just didn’t think it would be in the subsequent post.  Comparisons to other “less liked” players can help question the importance of  clubhouse comraderie.  Comparisons also expose double standards for one type of bad conduct vs another kind.

Bottom line:  the Twins need an ace starting pitcher and can find out if Bauer still is an ace for a cheap price.  I think they should do it and have a very short leash ready. 

[Squirrel]

48 minutes ago, strumdatjag said:

I predicted the “what about-ism” premise  would be raised. - just didn’t think it would be in the subsequent post.  Comparisons to other “less liked” players can help question the importance of  clubhouse comraderie.  Comparisons also expose double standards for one type of bad conduct vs another kind.

Bottom line:  the Twins need an ace starting pitcher and can find out if Bauer still is an ace for a cheap price.  I think they should do it and have a very short leash ready. 

So you over look a reprehensible person in order to hope for wins? That tells me quite a lot, is that the discussion you want? And I know people who can’t stand Correa who are ready to overlook Bauer’s behavior … what does that say? Is that hypocritical, too? None of this is productive discussion and serves no purpose but to impugn other posters and obfuscate the issue, which is Bauer and only Bauer. So stop thread jacking. There have been many professional athletes who have done abhorrent things. How many sought help? How many changed? How many were also clubhouse cancers? How many were described as ‘toxic’ by a very respected manager? And in what era, because more thought is given to domestic abuse than has in the past. Until you can provide context for every single person you mention, and relate them to this specific discussion, they don’t belong in this conversation. So far Bauer has proven to be unrepentant, in fact completely dug in and showing the opposite of remorse. The company he works for found enough cause to exact the harshest punishment ever given. In my job, my union contract is very specific about such behavior and I would be out of a job. Whether or not that’s fair, that’s the contract Bauer signed. And I don't want him on the team for all of that. And that is my opinion and an opinion held by others. Don't 'what about' the issue because you disagree. Make your case on its own merits and your own opinion without dragging it down a very complicated thread jack.

This is the last warning. If you want to stand on Bauer to try and exact some kind of indictment of hypocrisy on others or this situation, think again. If you want to discuss this further, send a PM to @Brock Beauchamp or one of the other moderators; but for the purposes of this thread, keep it to Bauer.

[Brock Beauchamp]

1 hour ago, strumdatjag said:

OK.   What about Ron LeFlore?   He was sent to prison for Armed Robbery and then had a good mlb career.  Oh, we need everyone to be Mr Congeniality in the clubhouse?   Then, what about all those years with AJ Pierzynski behind the plate and in the clubhouse - as Ozzie Guillen said, when he’s on your team, you hate him less. 
And finally, what about Carlos Correa himself?   He was a fixture on the Trashcan cheating  Astros.  That was obviously one of the reasons he had fewer suitors and settled for less money in this venture for a Dior contract.  I like this deal, but let’s not pat ourselves too much for being so virtuous. 
And don’t get started about “what-aboutisms.””   How else are double standards illustrated?

This is absolutely whataboutism and cut it out. I’m going to start hiding all posts of this nature.

People have different standards for what they find acceptable and unacceptable in life. That’s fine. We ALL do it.

Ron LeFlore retired 42 YEARS AGO. He has literally nothing to do with this conversation.

AJ Pierzynski was an obnoxious baseball player who enjoyed getting under his opponent’s skin. That seems a weird comparison to a guy accused of sexual abuse.

Feel free to like or dislike ANY player for ANY reason. That’s your right. It’s also everyone else’s right. 

[August J Gloop]

Trevor Bauer is a dangerous sexual abuser who has the armor of being publicly let off. His behavior toward women will get worse. All female staff will need to be afraid to be alone with him. That includes two of the writers who cover the team.

He also brings with him a side order of bigotry in the forms of transphobia and racism. He's not a 'raconteur' or 'difficult clubhouse personality'. He's one of those guys that nearly everyone around him hates. He was tolerated because our patriarchal system says that 'boys will be boys' and if there are results we look the other way. And even when those behaviors are clearly defined for us, many will contort themselves into pretzels to find technicalities of how what he did was 'ok' or 'not criminal'. 

His presence on the Twins would be 100% fatal to my fandom of the team. I'd be heartbroken, but I would stop following them immediately, until such a time that everyone involved in bringing him to Minnesota was gone. I hope I never have to say his name again. 

[StormJH1]

1 hour ago, August J Gloop said:

Trevor Bauer is a dangerous sexual abuser who has the armor of being publicly let off. His behavior toward women will get worse. All female staff will need to be afraid to be alone with him. That includes two of the writers who cover the team.

He also brings with him a side order of bigotry in the forms of transphobia and racism. He's not a 'raconteur' or 'difficult clubhouse personality'. He's one of those guys that nearly everyone around him hates. He was tolerated because our patriarchal system says that 'boys will be boys' and if there are results we look the other way. And even when those behaviors are clearly defined for us, many will contort themselves into pretzels to find technicalities of how what he did was 'ok' or 'not criminal'. 

His presence on the Twins would be 100% fatal to my fandom of the team. I'd be heartbroken, but I would stop following them immediately, until such a time that everyone involved in bringing him to Minnesota was gone. I hope I never have to say his name again. 

I have to agree with you.  It's really not my place to judge Trevor Bauer as a human being.  I know that sexual assault cases are very complicated, and that the District Attorney's office in this case did not find sufficient evidence to sustain charges against him.  But the physical harm he caused isn't even disputed, and it's disgusting.  "Lack of criminal liability" is also not the only standard I apply as a fan asking if I want my team to go acquire a specific pitcher for a lucrative sum of money.  The alleged behavior was quite different, but I pretty much ceased being a fan of Miguel Sano after the attempted sexual assault he was accused of, and my mind was not changed by the fact that MLB determined it lacked evidence to suspend him over it.

 

The Twins front office does not want this.  There are knock-on consequences to a move like this, but you don't know what they are in advance.  Fans who would consider signing Bauer are only evaluating his past rap sheet - and there's quite a bit there to worry about.  What about the next time an encounter with a female goes wrong?  What about the effect on an already half-empty stadium, and a portion of the fanbase who feel so strongly on this one issue that they have a fresh new reason to be done with this team?  What about a front office placed under constant pressure to defend this move in perpetuity.  The Brandon Taubman/Astros/Roberto Osuna episode is a notable example of how ugly this can get.

 

No thanks.  There has be some other route to getting to 81+ wins in a weak division than asking for all of these problems over this one guy.

 

[Rosterman]

Will he take a minor league contract and an invite to spring training?

[nicksaviking]

Enough. Bauer isn't coming here, and this nonsense serves no purpose on this site. We don't need  threads open in the baseball forums dedicated solely to discussing or defending terrible people. 

[Squirrel]