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Twins Make Multiple Vaccination-Related Roster Moves


Message added by Brock Beauchamp,

This is going to be a rough topic on both sides of the issue so please, do not ascribe either moral superiority or moral failing on any players spoken about in this thread. No matter whether you personally agree or disagree with them, their choice is their own and we expect everyone to be treated with respect on these forums.

1 hour ago, 2wins87 said:

There are cardiac complications associated with getting COVID as well.  Here is a Link to a report on a study in particular looking at cardiac arrest in the period before vaccines were available.

I can't speak to all potential side effects, but many of the potential bad outcomes that have been associated with the vaccines are much more likely to occur from getting COVID itself.  The risk calculation shouldn't be whether there is any tiny chance of an adverse effect from the vaccine but whether it will lower your overall risk of having adverse health effects (including getting COVID). Not to mention whether getting it will reduce the risk of bad health outcomes to those around you.

I don't begrudge anyone for making decisions that they think are right. But I don't believe the evidence taken as a whole supports the decision not to get vaccinated for the vast majority. I don't really expect to change anyone's mind, but I would hope people would take the effort to learn about all of the risks, not just those associated with the vaccine. And also consider that we don't know any more about the long term effects of COVID than we do about the vaccine.

And the vaccine does not prevent you from getting covid and the potential long term affects from it.   The vaccine does not stop you from spreading it either.   A vaccine that was rushed to market by companies competing for BILLIONS of dollars and are legally protected from any lawsuits.  The survival rate from Covid for professional level athletes at this age is almost 100%.   There is increasing evidence that the vaccine is causing many more examples of serious health affects as time goes by.   The media, which recieves millions from big pharma, is not covering this.   Anybody that feels that this specific vax should be absolutely mandated simply is not relying on logic, science or common sense.   

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33 minutes ago, 2wins87 said:

No, it's not inaccurate.  Vaccines have been shown to both reduce the likelihood of infection and reduce forward transmission to others in those who do get infected.  Just because they aren't perfect in those areas doesn't mean they don't work.

Here is some science: https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid-19-vaccine/news/20210722/gold-standard-study-mrna-vaccines-prevent-infection

https://www.bmj.com/content/376/bmj.o298

Fascinating choice of sources--your first is a study done among VA patients; how many people 17 and under do you think are in the VA system, which is of course what I was correcting you on.  This source is also almost a year old (it's from July 2021), and as such predates the Omicron and other subsequent variants.  Given the increased transmissibility of those strains, this source seems out-of-date at best, incorrect at worst.

Here's a quotation pulled directly from your second source 'Most papers to date (notably, many are preprints and have yet to be peer reviewed) indicate vaccines are holding up against admission to hospital and mortality, says Linda Bauld, professor of public health at the University of Edinburgh, “but not so much against transmission.”'

So what I can gather here is that you have no response to the contention that shots are largely unnecessary and ineffective in youth age groups (due to the fact that there's very little Covid occurring in those groups--it's hard to reduce something that barely exists), and you agree that the shots do not reduce transmission.

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4 hours ago, USAFChief said:

That was my point, poorly stated as it was.

The internet is full of poorly stated points. In that regards you are not unique. Admitting it is

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1 hour ago, Cap'n Piranha said:

Saying it's medical fact is a bit of a stretch, as long-term consequences (if there are any) are unknown.  The data clearly shows that Covid is not a serious risk to young, healthy people without any underlying medical conditions.  I would imagine most doctors would recommend against taking medication that is not needed, and the fact is that for millions under the age of 30, or even 40, Covid is far less concerning than multiple other activities engaged in with regularity.

Now, if you want to amend to say that unless you've had a severe allergic reaction to the mRNA shot, every person who is elderly, immune compromised, or has comorbidities should get the shot, I would wholeheartedly agree.

Sorry to burst your bubble but they have found organ damage and respiratory. Issues in younger people after Covid. The fave also found the fatigue lingers

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24 minutes ago, old nurse said:

Sorry to burst your bubble but they have found organ damage and respiratory. Issues in younger people after Covid. The fave also found the fatigue lingers

Source?  Had these young people received a Covid shot?  If so, how was the cause determined?  With the lingering fatigue, is there any evidence linking that to Covid, or is it a post hoc, ergo propter hoc assessment?

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Um... I totally called Kepler being out and likely not vaxxed on the original string....talked about selling swamp land in Florida for those who did not believe and such....

Not surprising at all. 

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As someone who treated numerous COVID patients from the very beginning of the pandemic and throughout, knows the science very well, and has no financial interest... let me be very clear.

The vaccine significantly reduces your chances of being hospitalized and/or dying from COVID-19.

The evidence is definitive

It is agreed upon by the vast majority of medical experts whom have NO financial stake in the vaccine.

It does not prevent all infections or transmission, but has save countless lives

There are many things in the world that are debatable... this is not one of them. Sorry

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20 minutes ago, Cap'n Piranha said:

Source?  Had these young people received a Covid shot?  If so, how was the cause determined?  With the lingering fatigue, is there any evidence linking that to Covid, or is it a post hoc, ergo propter hoc assessment?

I have worked with this form the last two plus years. Sorry I don’t keep sources available for you. It is called knowing what you need to know for your job

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3 hours ago, nicksaviking said:

Their long term health is not at risk. No reasonable person would believe otherwise.

Nick, after my booster I immediately contracted tinnitus. I have permanently lost 50% of my hearing in my left ear and have the constant sound of static in the ear. It is INCREDIBLY debilitating. I’m told it will never go away. According to my internist, my ENT doc, and my wife’s cancer drs., this is a documented long term side effect of the Pfizer shots and is prevalent in a higher percentage of people than is being reported. None of those physicians are anti-vaxxers, in fact, just the opposite. And I’m not either. But the risk is not zero and is likely as high or higher than my risk of long-term health issues from getting Covid - particularly these latter strains. 

I am a mid 50s active male in great shape and no morbidities and my remaining years will be significantly negatively impacted by my decision to get the booster.

Just an FYI from an incredibly reasonable person. 

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2 hours ago, a-wan said:

No, everyone 5 and over should be vaccinated. All vaccines available in the United States are highly effective, substantially reduce the risk of COVID-19, especially severe/critical disease, and have been associated with substantial reductions in COVID-19-associated hospitalizations and deaths, even in the context of variants that partially evade vaccine-induced immune responses. In addition to direct reductions in COVID-19-associated morbidity and mortality, vaccination has been associated with lower non-COVID-19 mortality rates, supporting evidence that COVID-19 vaccination does not increase the risk of death.

The only true contraindication is anaphylaxis to the previous mRNA shot 

 

Take a look at how many people under 18 have died of coronavirus compared to other causes of death.  Even under age 45 compared to other causes.  Then consider all the damage we have done to people regarding education, losing businesses, losing jobs, etc.  

These folks are not selfish and it's wrong to call them such.  Half the country would support kepler, this is not some looney fringe.

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OKAY ... ENOUGH ... YOU HAVE ALL HAD YOUR SAY ABOUT COVID AND THE VACCINES AND CHOICE AND PUBLIC HEALTH AND CANADIAN LAW. GET BACK TO BASEBALL AND QUIT GOING DOWN THESE RABBIT HOLES OF DISCUSSION. IT'S UNFORTUNATE THAT ROSTER MOVES HAD TO BE MADE, BUT IT IS WHAT IT IS. GET ON WITH IT.

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