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Are the Twins done making moves?


cHawk
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The Twins, in the last week of the offseason, made several big moves, such as the trade for Sonny Gray and signing Carlos Correa.

There has been some speculation around the Twins trading for Frankie Montas and Sean Manaea. Opening day is roughly a week away, and while we have been looking for one of those moves to be made, that bears the question, “Will it actually happen?”

I’m really not sure what to think about this.

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Showed the As they were very interested, then backed off the steep demands. Now it's just a matter of circling a good deal for both parties. Reminds me of how my wife and I got married. 😀

Here's hoping it ends as well for the Twins, too. But I do appreciate that this FO seems unwilling to make a too-rash move. Be interesting to see what happens next.

 

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I hope they add at least one more rotation piece before the season starts but I can see them starting the season with Gray, Bundy, Ober, Ryan and Winder and as the season gets going if they think we will be competitive and still need rotation help make a trade before the trading deadline to add another experienced starter.   Even with the flaws in our pitching staff I am excited to see how this season plays out with the lineup we have. 

  

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56 minutes ago, dex8425 said:

I'd do Martin and Arraez for Maenea and Montas. Straight up that looks fair and seems like it would appeal to both teams? My guess is Twins think that's too steep? The A's couldn't possibly be asking for more than that? Winder or Duran should get you Maenea for one year. 

Martin and Arraez won't get Montas alone, much less both.

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I keep checking in religiously (appropriate since baseball and football are my man made religions) for a pitching signing but crickets for about a week. Rumors are that the As want 3 of our top prospects (Lewis, Martin, etc) for Montas and 2 of them for Manaea. Is one year of Manaea valuable enough to lose that much controllable talent? 

There is a need for a 5th starter earlier this year than most but I think it is smart for the Twins not to overpay. The As firesale has attracted plenty of attention and the Yanks, Cards, Royals, Twins (and probably others) have taken notice. No reason to overpay now. The playoffs start in October and there will be plenty of teams whose seasons have been derailed by then and are willing to trade away a rental.

 Keep wondering, "Why did we trade Berrios again???"

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34 minutes ago, TopTwinsFan said:

The As firesale has attracted plenty of attention and the Yanks, Cards, Royals, Twins (and probably others) have taken notice.

Welcome to the forum!

As long as other teams aren't trading for the A's starters (or the remaining Reds starters, etc.), then it's hard to get too worried about the Twins not making a deal yet.

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I assume the Twins are at least pondering a trade, but I have next to no interest in any of the remaining free agent starters.

I'm pretty surprised about the lack of bullpen pieces though. I mean, if the team is going to wing it with the young prospects in the rotation, seems likely they'd do the same with the bullpen, but unless there is a Craig Kimbrell type, free agent relievers unsigned this time of the year are about a dime a dozen (I didn't follow the new CBA very closely, maybe they go for a quarter now?). I'm surprised we haven't seen the Twins pick up an unappetizing reliever for us all to gag about.

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I'm starting to lean away from them getting any of the A's starters. I think the price is too high for this front office.

Though it wouldn't surprise me at all if they find a way to acquire a starter not in Oakland for something less than a king's ransom, even if that pitcher isn't elite or even that good.

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Some people won't like to hear this....but this organization has a crap ton of near-ready, interesting pitchers.  I'm not paying through the nose for Oakland's guys because they have all the leverage.  

Let's see what Ryan, Ober, Gray, Bundy, and Winder/Sands/Whoever can do.  And let's keep bringing up the Balazovics and Durans when we need to.  This offense can keep us in it while we let the young arms thrive.

I still might sign Cueto as Bundy insurance though.

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11 minutes ago, TheLeviathan said:

Some people won't like to hear this....but this organization has a crap ton of near-ready, interesting pitchers.  I'm not paying through the nose for Oakland's guys because they have all the leverage.  

Let's see what Ryan, Ober, Gray, Bundy, and Winder/Sands/Whoever can do.  And let's keep bringing up the Balazovics and Durans when we need to.  This offense can keep us in it while we let the young arms thrive.

I still might sign Cueto as Bundy insurance though.

I pretty much agree with this... and I think the expanded postseason makes this less of a pressing issue. I think Oakland is mis-stepping here a bit (and who even knows what the hell Cincinnati is doing).

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I dont underrstand why everyone keeps throwing Arraez name in Oakland trade deals.  Arraez is already super 2 arbitration status, he has health and defensive concerns.  A team that is in a complete rebuild.  A's Dont want a guy who is going to be a free agent or completely unhealthy by the time the reach there next competitive window. 

 

I would guess they want Miranda and Lewis some of our young pitching.  

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I'm becoming less and less concerned about the Twins not trading for another starter. I agree with many of the other posters here, I think a combination of a lot of teams with interest plus the Twins signing Correa has raised the price significantly. I might be willing to part with two top 20 prospects for Montas for two years, but not for one year of Maneaa. When I hear Oakland might want three prospects and realize they are not going to be interested in any sort of veteran player like Arraez (too expensive, bad knees), Kepler or Sano (both too expensive), I lose interest quickly. I know we would like to maximize our window now while Correa is here for one year, but it isn't worth losing our long-term future to do that.

My prediction is that the Twin will either sign Johnny Cueto or plan on Winder being the fifth man in the rotation. I am fine with either approach frankly depending on whether Winder is ready to go now or could use another month or two in AAA to refine his pitching. Either Bundy or Cueto will break down or be ineffective and there will be plenty of chances for Winder to come back if we sign Cueto. Still, part of me wants to just put Winder in the rotation and see how it goes during the first month or so since you get to carry extra pitchers anyway. We can also trade for another back end starter during the deadline if we really need one then. 

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2 hours ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

I pretty much agree with this... and I think the expanded postseason makes this less of a pressing issue. I think Oakland is mis-stepping here a bit (and who even knows what the hell Cincinnati is doing).

I think waiting until the deadline not only presents more clarity on the youngsters, it helps our top prospects rebuild value, whom all slid during the last year.

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I think there's about 5 things going on here that have at least "paused" any further actions from the Twins.

1] Oakland has a HUGE "for sale" sign still out. And they've already reaped some benefits. I think they are being a big greedy right now. If rumors are to be believed, there's 6 or 7 teams interested in making a deal. But nothing has happened yet. Why? Again, I believe they are pricing themselves too high right now. (Sort of like a garage sale of good stuff that is stickered too high despite being nice). And they have the right to do that. Always top down sell, right? And I suspect their prices will come down based on my next point...

2] Post lockout  flurry, and now an abbreviated ST, the Twins and everyone else are focused on getting ready and SEEING WHAT THEY HAVE. Players and pitchers need to get ready. Some guys are being monitored closely coming back from injury to see if they're going to be ready. Many prospects, even top prospects...#Miranda for the Twins...may not get the time to show they are ready, or where they fit. Others are being fast tracked to see if they are ready to fit opening day. In other words, the neighbors are looking at what they have vs the prices at the garage sale before they decide to bid/buy. Bad news for Oakland right now, as well as maybe Cincinnati and Miami and others.

3] The Twins FO is patient. Sometimes I think they are too patient and need to be a little less risk adverse. I believe they should follow their MO, but in the future, they should identify and strike early for that ONE move they really like/want and then sit back. In retrospect, pre-lockout this year is a prime example.  But that's a different topic for a different day. They havent always hit, even when being applauded for their patient moves. Witness Happ, Lynn, etc, vs Cruz, Correa and a group of RP and others that DID turn out. (You NEVER hit 1000.00 in baseball terms). So right now, they, like everyone else, is seeing what they have and sorta following the Twins example of patience.

4] Like it or not, the Twins WANT to make a trade move. And they ARE willing to deal some prospects with the hope that the next draft, and international FA and prospects acquired from previous moves will pan out in the future and add to what they lose. BUT, they believe the Bundy they signed for is a combination of his Baltimore days...where everyone just thought he could be better on a better club...and his 2020 Angels season. Some combination of Bundy would make him, at least, a solid mid rotation piece.

5] The FO is also stuck in the place where they want to improve the rotation, without giving up too much, but also needing to promote and audition the talent on hand. And a strong case could be made for Winder to be the #5 starter right now. Especially with an expanded roster where Duran and others could get their feet wet and contribute. But then again, despite your belief in Bundy, Ober and Ryan, you KNOW you need starts and IP. And you don't trade for Gray and sign Correa on a wing and prayer. History and logic tell us that there is opportunity to win, and still promote the prospects to pitch and get ready for 2023 and beyond while competing in 2022.

I believe the Twins WILL make a serious pitching move. I believe it will happen late in ST. And it could be anything from the A's to the Reds to the Marlins or Houston for Odorizzi. What they want is something that doesn't HURT by giving up too much. Witness the Maeda and Odorizzi trades of the past.

I just don't see a RP on the market that makes sense at this time, but who knows. 

The OF market has died other than Gardner, who can't hit any more but gets OB, has speed still, and some power along with OK defense, and Conforto who provides a decent LH bat with power. So I just don't see a match in the FA market for OF or RP.

This team is mostly set and just deciding if it's the right time to make a major move for the rotation NOW, or run with what you have and make a move early or at the deadline.

My best guess?  A week from now we are talking about a trade for someone in the rotation and what we gave up, which will hurt but seem fair.

 

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It's going to take a sacrifice to even get one of the Oakland pitchers. Oakland isn't in the running for a  title. So other teams will try to put bid the twins on at least one of the pitchers. No team in the American league wants the twins to have both. That's almost like giving them the title.

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I'm ready to go with this lot. Bags packed, tank full, coffee guzzled, engine warming up. 

Where are you guys, still in the shower?

Twins have a stout position lineup, a decent starting ro, some good relivers, good coaches, a very nice ballpark (a bit expensive), good hot dogs, overpriced beer... who could ask for more? 

Oakland smells blood at this late date, so don't fall for a one-year swindle that loses the upper half of the farm's top ten prospects. The guys we have right now look very competitive. Let the kids play, and see which ones become stars. 

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If Maneaa, Montas, and Castillo are all off the market (read this at MLB rumors), then I think the Twins go with what they have, test out the young'uns, and wait until the trade deadline to make additions.  And if 2022 has turned into another 2021, then trade both Correa and Gray for as much as possible and use the money to buy a top of the rotation pitcher next offseason.

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9 hours ago, PseudoSABR said:

I think waiting until the deadline not only presents more clarity on the youngsters, it helps our top prospects rebuild value, whom all slid during the last year.

Although I agree with waiting until the deadline rather than overpaying now, I do worry about the impact of the expanded playoffs. With more playoff spots available there will be more teams in the hunt at the deadline and fewer teams that are selling, so the price for a mid-year acquisition is likely to be significantly higher than in past years. 

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I agree with a lot of these comments, and I do think the A's want to unload Manaea and Montas, but they are just playing a game of brinkmanship like the owners and players did in negotiations.  I suspect if they trade either of them, it will be close to the beginning of the season or at the trade deadline when contenders have clearly emerged.  I suspect if nothing happens on that front, the Twins will sign someone like Cueto to eat up some innings in the first half of the season.

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I think Rogers' effectiveness during frequent use is still an issue and he's coming off injury.  The thought of having a Colome closer B was the right idea but became a train wreck that threw the entire season off the rails.  Hopefully Alcala can be that guy but I'd feel better with another proven bullpen vet.

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There's a reason neither A's pitchers have been traded. The price is too high and no one is willing or able to pay. Considering all the teams who were interested, and not one took the bait, that says a lot. We'll roll with what we have and hope that's enough. But I'm not interested in an overpay at this point until I know exactly what we've got and what our chances really are. I mean ... one year for Manea and two years for Montas ... that's not enough for a high price tag

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