Second Deadline Passes, Still No Deal

[Ted Schwerzler]

Today, after hours of negotiation early into the morning Tuesday, Major League Baseball presented their best offer. It was formally rejected by the union a half hour prior to the league’s deadline and the lockout continues.

The next step would be for Rob Manfred and the league to impose a cancellation of regular season games. At this point, on March 1, 2022, there’s simply not enough of a runway for the season to commence as scheduled. No further talks are scheduled and both sides are set to leave Jupiter, Florida.

The players remain divided on what the league deems as fair from a pre-arbitration bonus pool and luxury tax threshold while the league suggests it has made their best offer. Owners no doubt have a monetary value placed on games they’re willing to miss and now we’re likely to see that game of chicken come into play.

It was announced that a 12 team postseason had been agreed upon, but without a ratification of the CBA it’s worth wondering if that returns to negotiation. $100 million could be at stake when it comes to expansion of regular season games, and that’s where ownership has the most to gain financially.

Players have been bracing for canceled games, and while some can handle the economic impact more than others, it will be worth watching whether the union remains as united as they have been to this point.

Look for future bargaining sessions to be on the calendar, but it’s anyone’s guess as to when those take place. After a week of serious and contentious discussions, it would be far from shocking if both sides withdrew from the table for some fresh air.

The commissioner will make an address shortly.

Regular season games are cancelled:

The earliest a deal could come together would be Thursday:

The MLBPA responds

Here’s some of what MLB sought to add in the final negotiations prior to cancellation.

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[Original_JB]

[Mike Sixel]

the owners have locked out the players. Let no one call this a strike, please.

They could be playing ball, if the owners wanted to. 

[Employee No. 4210]

My heart goes out to the part-time stadium and gameday employees, many of whom are retired or handicapped and use these games to supplement social security. Cities with taxpayer-funded stadiums need to consider lawsuits against MLB owners for loss of income for these employees, not to mention the business around stadiums losing revenue.

[Mike Sixel]

4 minutes ago, Employee No. 4210 said:

My heart goes out to the part-time stadium and gameday employees, many of whom are retired or handicapped and use these games to supplement social security. Cities with taxpayer-funded stadiums need to consider lawsuits against MLB owners for loss of income for these employees, not to mention the business around stadiums losing revenue.

Good points!

Manfred saying revenue has been tough the last five years......in 2019, revenues went up for the 17th straight year.....and, lest we forget, they didn't pay the players full salaries in 2020.....and revenues are rising much faster than player pay. 

[USAFChief]

17 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

the owners have locked out the players. Let no one call this a strike, please.

They could be playing ball, if the owners wanted to. 

I hope the owners do just that. Play ball. Open camps, and play with whoever shows up.

 

The union will cave within weeks. And we'd all be better off for it.

[Mike Sixel]

1 minute ago, USAFChief said:

I hope the owners do just that. Play ball. Open camps, and play with whoever shows up.

 

The union will cave within weeks. And we'd all be better off for it.

Yikes. I guess we'll just 100% disagree on that one.

[mk]

Whether the players get more money or the owners get more money, it doesn't affect me at all because it surely isn't ending up in my pocket. I just want baseball. A pox on both their houses!

[tony&rodney]

15 minutes ago, USAFChief said:

play with whoever shows up.

 

I encourage you to go to college, high school, town ball, and organized youth league games plus minor league games when they all start up. MLB is not a place for lesser players. You wouldn't come to me for surgery. I'm very frustrated with the lockout myself though.

[h2oface]

Millionaires arguing with Billionaires. Big Dix Hot Dogs should be catering........

[USAFChief]

6 minutes ago, tony&rodney said:

I encourage you to go to college, high school, town ball, and organized youth league games plus minor league games when they all start up. MLB is not a place for lesser players. You wouldn't come to me for surgery. I'm very frustrated with the lockout myself though.

I go to baseball games at all levels quite often. 

If it weren't for the names on the uniforms, most fans wouldn't recognize the difference between AA and AAA players and major league players.

In any case, I side more with owners than players in this ridiculous display of greed, although there's plenty of blame to go around.

But I believe if owners opened camps, this would end quickly. Players aren't opting out of hundreds of thousands, or millions of dollars. They'll cave, and who cares? Both sides will still get to chop up billions, and I'll get to watch MLB, either way.

 

[tony&rodney]

Any player on a MLB 40 person roster can apply to the PA for financial assistance. February and March aid was set at $5,000 per month and it goes to $15,000 per month on April 1. Financially, the players are fine. They will not "cave". This is more than the salaries of AAA players.

Hopefully, each side will take a few days and recognize that games are in their mutual interest. Setting a more difficult course would create real problems. While I'm in favor of an 8 team playoff structure myself, there was agreement for a 12 team playoffs. The players could take that back and then there would be a round of retrenchments. Not good. Again, hopefully the two sides look again at their battles and find a compromise.

[big dog]

I just went to mlb.com and cancelled my auto-renewal and removed my credit card from the site. No more money from big dog for a while. I'm sick of this crap. There's obviously no social contract here whatsoever. It's just a way for more people to get rich. I'm not playing along.

[a-wan]

1 hour ago, USAFChief said:

I hope the owners do just that. Play ball. Open camps, and play with whoever shows up.

 

The union will cave within weeks. And we'd all be better off for it.

I am now a dumber person for reading this. 

[Dave The Dastardly]

11 minutes ago, a-wan said:

I am now a dumber person for reading this. 

Welcome to the club. Give me a few more years and I'll be sub-Forrest Gump. That's all I'm going to say about that.

[Brock Beauchamp]

3 hours ago, USAFChief said:

I hope the owners do just that. Play ball. Open camps, and play with whoever shows up.

The union will cave within weeks. And we'd all be better off for it.

This is such a garbage take, Chief, and you should be embarrassed for it. Have you looked at what the owners have done for the past 2+ years through Covid and these "negotiations"? They've been straight-up union-busters, nothing more. As the MLBPA caved through concession after concession, the owners did things like raise the CBT by less than inflation and then asked for expanded playoffs in return.

Yours is the worst of worst takes. If you want the sport to be better, crushing the union is not the way to get there. The players have their own issues, of which I've complained about ad nauseam, but right now the owners are the biggest problem in the sport and it's not close. They're so busy protesting and protecting their $80m payrolls and the lack of competition that they can't even see the fans that stopped caring ten years ago.

And now you want even more fans to stop caring so those multi-billionaires can make a few million more.

Huzzah and cheers for that.

[sampleSizeOfOne]

3 hours ago, USAFChief said:

I hope the owners do just that. Play ball. Open camps, and play with whoever shows up.

 

The union will cave within weeks. And we'd all be better off for it.

Can i play, then?

 

Would i get paid?

 

And what's to stop the players from just taking their roles? No strike has been called after all.

[Major League Ready]

10 hours ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

This is such a garbage take, Chief, and you should be embarrassed for it. Have you looked at what the owners have done for the past 2+ years through Covid and these "negotiations"? They've been straight-up union-busters, nothing more. As the MLBPA caved through concession after concession, the owners did things like raise the CBT by less than inflation and then asked for expanded playoffs in return.

Yours is the worst of worst takes. If you want the sport to be better, crushing the union is not the way to get there. The players have their own issues, of which I've complained about ad nauseam, but right now the owners are the biggest problem in the sport and it's not close. They're so busy protesting and protecting their $80m payrolls and the lack of competition that they can't even see the fans that stopped caring ten years ago.

And now you want even more fans to stop caring so those multi-billionaires can make a few million more.

Huzzah and cheers for that.

How is raising the CBT threshold good for the game.  It widens the gap in parity and there can be no argument to the contrary.  

In 2020, we could have had more games.  The last proposal was for 80 games as I recall but 80% of comp.  They elected for  60 games at 100%.  They had the audacity to go public with MLB promised prorated salaries.  The memo that was leaked clearly showed they were purposefully misleading the public. 

They are not partners and therefore not due a percentage of revenue.  Partners invest capital and there compensation varies based on the success of the business or this case individual team.

US Household income has increased almost identically to the adjusted rate of inflation.  Had MLB players income grown at the same rate they would be making 5% of what they make today.  Yes, 5%.  Yet, they are unwilling to play for the increases that have been proposed.  

What's wrong with an international Draft?  I see that as a more equitable approach that promotes parity.

The owner's last offer looked perfectly reasonable.  I might add that if there was no union we would have baseball and players would still be the most fortunate group of players on the planet.  They would still be making 100X that of the people paying their salaries. and top players literally make nearly 1,000X that of the average American income.  Yet, they are unwilling to work.

Finally, if you think the players are more concerned about the health of the game than owners you have lost your mind.  Even it's purely financially driven, their interest is far more long term.  Also do you really think athletes, with no business experience and for the most part no formal education are better equipped to determine what's better for this business than a group of 30 of the most accomplished business people in the country?  There are 3 Harvard MBAs and a couple other MBAs.   Several with degrees from Wharton and 28 of the 30 are as accomplished as it comes.  Anyone here who believes they are qualified to stand in judgment better have some serious credentials.

[old nurse]

32 minutes ago, Major League Ready said:

How is raising the CBT threshold good for the game.  It widens the gap in parity and there can be no argument to the contrary.  

In 2020, we could have had more games.  The last proposal was for 80 games as I recall but 80% of comp.  They elected for  60 games at 100%.  They had the audacity to go public with MLB promised prorated salaries.  The memo that was leaked clearly showed they were purposefully misleading the public. 

They are not partners and therefore not due a percentage of revenue.  Partners invest capital and there compensation varies based on the success of the business or this case individual team.

US Household income has increased almost identically to the adjusted rate of inflation.  Had MLB players income grown at the same rate they would be making 5% of what they make today.  Yes, 5%.  Yet, they are unwilling to play for the increases that have been proposed.  

What's wrong with an international Draft?  I see that as a more equitable approach that promotes parity.

The owner's last offer looked perfectly reasonable.  I might add that if there was no union we would have baseball and players would still be the most fortunate group of players on the planet.  They would still be making 100X that of the people paying their salaries. and top players literally make nearly 1,000X that of the average American income.  Yet, they are unwilling to work.

Finally, if you think the players are more concerned about the health of the game tan owners you have lost your mind.  Even it's purely financially driven, their interest is far more long term.  Also do you really think athletes, with no business experience and for the most part no formal education are better equipped to determine what's better for this business than a group of 30 of the most accomplished business people in the country?  There are 3 Harvard MBAs and a couple other MBAs.   Several with degrees from Wharton and 28 of the 30 are as accomplished as it comes.  Anyone here who believes they are qualified to stand in judgment better have some serious credentials.

Yeah the union has done nothing for the player’s incomes. In 1972 Danny Thompson as a third year starting player made 13,500. Median household income was 11,200. Thanks to the union the players aren’t doing that much better than median household income now, if you move the decimal point over to the left one position and divide by 2 

[Vanimal46]

38 minutes ago, Major League Ready said:

How is raising the CBT threshold good for the game.  It widens the gap in parity and there can be no argument to the contrary.  

In 2020, we could have had more games.  The last proposal was for 80 games as I recall but 80% of comp.  They elected for  60 games at 100%.  They had the audacity to go public with MLB promised prorated salaries.  The memo that was leaked clearly showed they were purposefully misleading the public. 

They are not partners and therefore not due a percentage of revenue.  Partners invest capital and there compensation varies based on the success of the business or this case individual team.

US Household income has increased almost identically to the adjusted rate of inflation.  Had MLB players income grown at the same rate they would be making 5% of what they make today.  Yes, 5%.  Yet, they are unwilling to play for the increases that have been proposed.  

What's wrong with an international Draft?  I see that as a more equitable approach that promotes parity.

The owner's last offer looked perfectly reasonable.  I might add that if there was no union we would have baseball and players would still be the most fortunate group of players on the planet.  They would still be making 100X that of the people paying their salaries. and top players literally make nearly 1,000X that of the average American income.  Yet, they are unwilling to work.

Finally, if you think the players are more concerned about the health of the game tan owners you have lost your mind.  Even it's purely financially driven, their interest is far more long term.  Also do you really think athletes, with no business experience and for the most part no formal education are better equipped to determine what's better for this business than a group of 30 of the most accomplished business people in the country?  There are 3 Harvard MBAs and a couple other MBAs.   Several with degrees from Wharton and 28 of the 30 are as accomplished as it comes.  Anyone here who believes they are qualified to stand in judgment better have some serious credentials.

None of this has anything to do with the post Brock replied to. Where Chief essentially said to break the players union and open up camps to anyone and everyone. It’s an opinion I disagree with very much. 

I’m going to regret even responding to this because I’ve seen this same talk track from you over and over again. Comparing any professional athlete’s salary to the average American household is always going to disappoint. They are paid to entertain, and master their craft at an elite level against the best competition in the world. If you think MLB players are the most fortunate players in sports, I urge you to look into NBA salaries. Where a backup point guard makes 8 figure salaries.

The CBT hasn’t increased in line with revenues in baseball. If they did, it would be $297 million. 

Listening to Michael Kay this week, it sounds like the CBT is intentionally left lower to put a Governor on Steve Cohen’s spending. Him spending like a drunken sailor is bad news for the other billionaire owners who want to cry poor and have $50 million payrolls. 

[tony&rodney]

Arguments against the work of the union in baseball are just silly. Dave Boswell made as much money painting houses as he did playing baseball. The goals of the PA could be more streamlined and focused. The past two CBA have totally shifted towards the owners. The PA just wants to maintain some balance. Either way, the owners win.

Baseball does NOT have typical ownership. Half of the owners inherited their team. MLB is a closed club. No person can just have enough money and buy a team (see Mark Cuban). Baseball still has anti-trust exemption status, which is a real travesty of justice, unless you really believe that MLB is THE American treasure.

[Brock Beauchamp]

59 minutes ago, Major League Ready said:

How is raising the CBT threshold good for the game.  It widens the gap in parity and there can be no argument to the contrary.  

In 2020, we could have had more games.  The last proposal was for 80 games as I recall but 80% of comp.  They elected for  60 games at 100%.  They had the audacity to go public with MLB promised prorated salaries.  The memo that was leaked clearly showed they were purposefully misleading the public. 

They are not partners and therefore not due a percentage of revenue.  Partners invest capital and there compensation varies based on the success of the business or this case individual team.

US Household income has increased almost identically to the adjusted rate of inflation.  Had MLB players income grown at the same rate they would be making 5% of what they make today.  Yes, 5%.  Yet, they are unwilling to play for the increases that have been proposed.  

What's wrong with an international Draft?  I see that as a more equitable approach that promotes parity.

The owner's last offer looked perfectly reasonable.  I might add that if there was no union we would have baseball and players would still be the most fortunate group of players on the planet.  They would still be making 100X that of the people paying their salaries. and top players literally make nearly 1,000X that of the average American income.  Yet, they are unwilling to work.

Finally, if you think the players are more concerned about the health of the game tan owners you have lost your mind.  Even it's purely financially driven, their interest is far more long term.  Also do you really think athletes, with no business experience and for the most part no formal education are better equipped to determine what's better for this business than a group of 30 of the most accomplished business people in the country?  There are 3 Harvard MBAs and a couple other MBAs.   Several with degrees from Wharton and 28 of the 30 are as accomplished as it comes.  Anyone here who believes they are qualified to stand in judgment better have some serious credentials.

Why are you such an obvious shill for billionaires who don’t love the sport you seem to love?

I would rebut most of what you typed but why bother? It only validates the gross nature of your opinion. 

[jorgenswest]

It was either going to be lock out now or strike later in the season threatening playoffs. I will take the lockout now. They will play eventually.

Meanwhile I was was at a high school baseball last weekend. The close game was entertaining and hard fought. Baseball is a great game whether at the high school level or major league level.

I don’t know if the advice about getting out and watching other levels of baseball was sincere or not but I will be finding a game and getting my fill.

[LastOnePicked]

55 minutes ago, Major League Ready said:

The owner's last offer looked perfectly reasonable.  I might add that if there was no union we would have baseball and players would still be the most fortunate group of players on the planet.  They would still be making 100X that of the people paying their salaries. and top players literally make nearly 1,000X that of the average American income.  Yet, they are unwilling to work.

Here's where we fundamentally disagree. Baseball exists without any union - of course it does. But the infrastructure that promotes (and seeks compensation for) excellence, that creates an equitable workplace for professionals, that gives laborers a voice is all created and maintained by the union. The players make the union. The players are what make the game great. Who the hell ever would ever buy a ticket at Target Field to watch Jim Pohlad roam around centerfield?

That doesn't mean that any union is ever 100% in the right. But if you listen to the MLBPA conference (I just did), you'll hear thoughtful professionals explaining why they are defending their profession as well as a very composed explanation that they have been and are still willing to negotiate the changes that are necessary to keep the game relevant and competitive. I don't see this commitment to the urgency of the moment or the heart of the game from any of the owners at this point. 

The players make the game - they are not replaceable at that level. If the game is wildly profitable, they should share in that equitably.

[Brock Beauchamp]

3 minutes ago, LastOnePicked said:

Here's where we fundamentally disagree. Baseball exists without any union - of course it does. But the infrastructure that promotes (and seeks compensation for) excellence, that creates an equitable workplace for professionals, that gives laborers a voice is all created and maintained by the union. The players make the union. The players are what make the game great. Who the hell ever would ever buy a ticket at Target Field to watch Jim Pohlad roam around centerfield?

That doesn't mean that any union is ever 100% in the right. But if you listen to the MLBPA conference (I just did), you'll hear thoughtful professionals explaining why they are defending their profession as well as a very composed explanation that they have been and are still willing to negotiate the changes that are necessary to keep the game relevant and competitive. I don't see this commitment to the urgency of the moment or the heart of the game from any of the owners at this point. 

The players make the game - they are not replaceable at that level. If the game is wildly profitable, they should share in that equitably.

This is exactly how I feel and far more politely stated than I care to state. Well said. 

[HerbieFan]

Let's be clear here.  The owners don't care about you or me.  They don't really care about the "integrity" of the game, the fans or any of the other mumbo-jumbo their highly paid puppet spews at a press conference.  They care about money.  Period.  Manfred is nothing more than their mouthpiece.

[wabene]

Sorry at this point I'm not reading the article. I got some email request about my MLB subscriptions, maybe we all should just cancel what we have pending. Might send a message, meanwhile I am happily occupied with other endeavors.

[USAFChief]

2 hours ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

This is such a garbage take, Chief, and you should be embarrassed for it. Have you looked at what the owners have done for the past 2+ years through Covid and these "negotiations"? They've been straight-up union-busters, nothing more. As the MLBPA caved through concession after concession, the owners did things like raise the CBT by less than inflation and then asked for expanded playoffs in return.

Yours is the worst of worst takes. If you want the sport to be better, crushing the union is not the way to get there. The players have their own issues, of which I've complained about ad nauseam, but right now the owners are the biggest problem in the sport and it's not close. They're so busy protesting and protecting their $80m payrolls and the lack of competition that they can't even see the fans that stopped caring ten years ago.

And now you want even more fans to stop caring so those multi-billionaires can make a few million more.

Huzzah and cheers for that.

I wish the owners WOULD set about busting the union. You act as if the MLBPA has anyone's interest at heart except themselves.

That's laughable. They don't care about fans, they don't care about the health of the sport. They care only about making more cash. 

They have that right, but get off your high horse. You can pick a side, but stop insisting it's the "right" side. 

I want a healthy MLB, with some semblance of parity. Only owners can give me that.

[USAFChief]

1 hour ago, HerbieFan said:

Let's be clear here.  The owners don't care about you or me.  They don't really care about the "integrity" of the game, the fans or any of the other mumbo-jumbo their highly paid puppet spews at a press conference.  They care about money.  Period.  Manfred is nothing more than their mouthpiece.

You have that backwards. 

[Mike Sixel]

12 minutes ago, USAFChief said:

I wish the owners WOULD set about busting the union. You act as if the MLBPA has anyone's interest at heart except themselves.

That's laughable. They don't care about fans, they don't care about the health of the sport. They care only about making more cash. 

They have that right, but get off your high horse. You can pick a side, but stop insisting it's the "right" side. 

I want a healthy MLB, with some semblance of parity. Only owners can give me that.

 

Your lack of empathy for the people that actually do the work makes me sad.