Jump to content
Twins Daily
  • Create Account

Eddie Rosario


Number3
 Share

3 hours ago, roger said:

I'm certain I will be corrected if I am wrong, but I recall Eddie getting on base during some of those losses to the Yankees.  Don't recall what his stats were, but I seem to remember he did ok.

He was 0-7 against Houston last year. In the matchups against the Yankees, he hit very well. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Most famously, Rosario hit a 2-run HR in the first inning of the 2017 AL Wild Card game vs NY. He drew a walk in the third inning too, as part of a rally that tied the game before we let it slip away again.

2019 ALDS, Rosario was effective overall at the plate but we were unable to capitalize. He went 0-for-5 in game 1 and stranded a few runners. GIDP in his first PA of game 2; by his second PA single, the Twins already trailed 8-0. Game 3, he collected a leadoff double and single with a runner on base but was stranded both times. Then he led off the 8th with a HR to get us on the board and cut the deficit to 3-1; sadly, we'd go on to lose 5-1.

Maybe Rosario purposely avoided the home run in the 8th for Atlanta last night, feeling a single and a series of dramatic advancements would better spark a rally. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 10/13/2021 at 9:35 PM, cHawk said:

Ugh, not this again. Are we really arguing that Rosario would’ve put this team anywhere near contention?

Are we really arguing losing a guy who produced .9 WAR was a problem.  I was once a big Rosario fan but he is no longer a good player and he has not been above average since the 1st half of 2018.  He makes stupid mistakes and took horrible ABs when he with us.  I don't miss him even a little.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, MABB1959 said:

I loved watching him bafoo's and all.  I like players that go all out every time they play.  Rosario, Escobar, Austidillo, Buxton, Sano, Cruz, Suzuki, Berrios to name a few.  There is more to baseball than just stats if you really love and enjoy watching a game.  They certainly could have afforded to pay Rosario 9 million instead of going CHEAP with Cave.   

IF you were to sum up the WASTE that was Refs, Garlick, the FA pitchers that were a total joke, you have enough to pay him $9MM.  They chose to allocate the dollars on reaches (or naive 'comeback' players), and then put too much pressure on the young OFs that were not ready (Larnach, Rooker), and let Eddie walk.  At least sign him and trade him at the deadline for a high ceiling low A player, as there would likely be teams looking for his career average numbers and 'gamer' attitude.  Not a great result for the Twins to get ZERO for an OF starter and replace him with below average production. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

This simply doesn't make sense. So is Rosario clutch and helped Atlanta win or is he just the beneficiary of being on a team that doesn't choke? Or is Rosario leading Atlanta but then why didn't he do it with the Twins?

By the way, Rosario had a .665 OPS literally a week ago in the NLDS.

Why can't we just be happy for Eddie without trying to manufacture some kind of negative side of the situation?

With all 'due respect' to Admin, this is a 'tree vs. forest' response.  There is a negative side.  You never waste assets when you have a chance to make something out of them.  We ARE happy for Eddie.  There is also the negative Twins Mgmt. side mentioned above (lost asset for ZERO), in addition to freeing up funds to sign some incredibly crappy pitchers; Happ ($8MM), and Shoemaker ($2MM) - both FAR below replacement level.  When you add Cave at $1MM, Colomb at $5.6MM, and Refs/Garlick at a combined $1.3MM - just a poor use of salary/performance ($17.9MM) - a idiotic 'wing and a prayer' approach, versus rewarding a previously performing player in his prime vs. 'not anymore's' and 'never were's.'   If you are in a business, which the Twins are certainly run as, you do NOT piss away assets for nothing, and then redeploy this capital in some incredibly LOW PERFORMING assets.  Your comment is 'Terry Ryan-esque' - dump a known performer for multiple dumpster fires that lost games for you (which total twice as much investment).  These dregs caused the extreme ineptitude in the first two months of the season that sealed the Twins fate for the balance of the year - prove me wrong.  We will see if Gant for Happ returns enough to validate any of this idiocy.  Additionally, do NOT underestimate the bench value of Rosario.  He and Cruz seemed to bring a great vibe into the clubhouse.

 

As for the NLDS OPS, the playoffs are still going on.  Rosario had a hit in every game in the NLDS - which Twin has had a hit in every game of ANY series lately?  Rosario also batted .300 in one of our playoff series, and in one qualifying game.  He did go 0-7 in the last playoff run, which meant he was hit-less in a total of TWO games, whereas he has hit in SIX straight playoff games this year, and has AT LEAST one hit in THREE OUT OF FOUR of the Twins playoff (or qualifying) games in 2017 and 2019.  In short, he has hits in NINE out of TWELVE of the last playoff (or qualifying) games.  By any measure, that is CLUTCH (particularly compared to the Twins woeful hitting performance).  Mauer (your comparison) did not fare as well - career .262 BA and .597 OPS vs, Rosario at .263 BA and .900 OPS.  Again, your summary post analysis (using stats you referenced) is WAY OFF.  Lastly, Mauer also had several more hit-less games than Rosario (and was never paid 1/2 the salary).  The truth hurts, stats bear this out, and so does 'on field performance.'

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 10/14/2021 at 11:27 AM, Brock Beauchamp said:

Oh, that's not what I meant at all. I'm happy Rosario is doing well with another team. I have nothing against the guy at all, I enjoyed his time with the Twins, it simply didn't make sense to keep him for $9m.

At first I did not understand what you were saying. Now I understand your position and I agree. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

42 minutes ago, Crackedfungo said:

IF you were to sum up the WASTE that was Refs, Garlick, the FA pitchers that were a total joke, you have enough to pay him $9MM.  They chose to allocate the dollars on reaches (or naive 'comeback' players), and then put too much pressure on the young OFs that were not ready (Larnach, Rooker), and let Eddie walk.  At least sign him and trade him at the deadline for a high ceiling low A player, as there would likely be teams looking for his career average numbers and 'gamer' attitude.  Not a great result for the Twins to get ZERO for an OF starter and replace him with below average production. 

They weren’t planning on Cave, Refsnyder, Garlick, etc to take up most of the starts. They were expecting Kirilloff to get the spot. He then got injured. At the time they non-tendered, Kirilloff’s baseline appeared to be essentially a Rosario-type player. Therefore, paying Rosario $10M would’ve been a bad allocation of resources.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Major League Ready said:

Are we really arguing losing a guy who produced .9 WAR was a problem.  I was once a big Rosario fan but he is no longer a good player and he has not been above average since the 1st half of 2018.  He makes stupid mistakes and took horrible ABs when he with us.  I don't miss him even a little.

Bad Take.  We are arguing losing a .9 WAR 2020 player (Twins average WAR 1.7) for ZERO return for redistributed salary to players that produced -.9 in the OF (Cave, Garlick, Refs), and three pitchers that produced -4.3 WAR (Happ, Shoemaker, and Colomb), which also cost almost twice as much as we could have signed Rosario for and added any replacement level players to consume these innings at much less cost than an additional $8MM.  These are the types of decisions that get a GM fired - except on the Twins (see Terry Ryan).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, cHawk said:

They weren’t planning on Cave, Refsnyder, Garlick, etc to take up most of the starts. They were expecting Kirilloff to get the spot. He then got injured. At the time they non-tendered, Kirilloff’s baseline appeared to be essentially a Rosario-type player. Therefore, paying Rosario $10M would’ve been a bad allocation of resources.

A 'Bad Allocation of resources' is depending on a Rookie that has been perpetually injured since HS (and is deemed to be a 1B masquerading in OF) and/or a collection of stiffs at a combined -.9 WAR (Cave, Refs, and Garlick) to replace a career 1.7 WAR player, then reallocating any salary (plus $8MM more) for 3 pitchers (Happ, Shoemaker,  and Colomb), who produced a combined -4.3 WAR (nevermind that we did not 'get' anything in a direct exchange for Rosario.  There is no logical way to argue this point.  That is a variance of -6.1 WAR (factoring Rosario's 2020 WAR), or -6.9 WAR (factoring his career WAR; omitting the COVID year).    These 'salary redistribution below replacement' hacks lost more than a dozen games for the Twins (almost single-handedly).  This is one of the MAJOR reasons why the Twins tanked this year:  e.g. what the Twins did with the Rosario money?  They 'leveraged it' into  -6.1 to -6.9 WAR at double the cost; an offense that should get a GM fired.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, dxpavelka said:

"great in the clutch." Still waiting for the advanced analytic that measures that.

Hits in 9 out of 12 career playoff (or qualifying) games with a .900 OPS.  What more do you need to see cheering for a team that has not seen that type of performance in the playoffs since the Puckett years.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Crackedfungo said:

A 'Bad Allocation of resources' is depending on a Rookie that has been perpetually injured since HS (and is deemed to be a 1B masquerading in OF) and/or a collection of stiffs at a combined -.9 WAR (Cave, Refs, and Garlick) to replace a career 1.7 WAR player, then reallocating any salary (plus $8MM more) for 3 pitchers (Happ, Shoemaker,  and Colomb), who produced a combined -4.3 WAR (nevermind that we did not 'get' anything in a direct exchange for Rosario.  There is no logical way to argue this point.  That is a variance of -6.1 WAR (factoring Rosario's 2020 WAR), or -6.9 WAR (factoring his career WAR; omitting the COVID year).    These 'salary redistribution below replacement' hacks lost more than a dozen games for the Twins (almost single-handedly).  This is one of the MAJOR reasons why the Twins tanked this year:  e.g. what the Twins did with the Rosario money?  They 'leveraged it' into  -6.1 to -6.9 WAR at double the cost; an offense that should get a GM fired.

Kirilloff had been ‘perpetually injured since high school?’ I’d like to see a source. 

It seems like you’re arguing for a ‘bad allocation of resources’ simply because the actual allocation was worse. It doesn’t mean it would’ve been the right move. It means it would’ve been a better move than what actually happened.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, cHawk said:

Also, Kirilloff had been ‘perpetually injured since high school?’ I’d like to see a source. 

It seems like you’re arguing for a ‘bad allocation of resources’ simply because the actual allocation was worse. It doesn’t mean it would’ve been the right move. It means it would’ve been a better move than what actually happened.

In a 6 year career since HS, he has had significant wrist injuries, causing him to miss 2/3 of a full season (over two seasons), and also missed an entire season with a URL injury.  I will eliminate the COVID year, since essentially everyone outside of the majors and 'taxi squad' was not able to play.  If you miss almost two full years, and have one injury (wrist) that has been a multi-year problem, coupled with a URL (no guarantee that it will not recur), I think that qualifies.  Particularly when he has really only completed 2 mostly full years of 5 (eliminating the 6 year due to COVID); with 3 years being out for a significant portion (or all) of a season.  Outside of Buxton like injuries (e.g. 'always injured') I would say that it is fair to say that he has been 'perpetually injured'.

Yes, the results of the redistribution of salary that could have been used to retain Rosario performed materially worse than retaining Rosario as I proved above (and was exacerbated by almost two-fold the cost and four-fold the lack of performance by WAR).  That does NOT mean that I do not believe that retaining Rosario wasn't just a better allocation of resources than the path they chose.  I DID think it was the right allocation of resources and worth doing.  To me, he was the best solution in LF (and for the clubhouse for $9MM) for 2020 at least until the trade deadline, at which time, you move him if needed for SOMETHING. 

I like AK.  I just did not believe he was ready to perform AND LAST for the entire year in LF.  He has had a wrist problem for two years.  The Twins knew this too, as evidenced by the quote below from Baldelli after the wrist issue he had in a previous year inflamed again:

"AK had a successful stint in the big leagues, but we knew that his wrist was an issue and it was something that he was playing through," Baldelli said. "We knew there could be a point in the year where he just could not continue playing through this, and the right and smart thing to do would be to go ahead and have the procedure that we knew was probably coming."

Just look at that $hitshow behind AK if he did not last!?!?  It was a carousel of ineptitude.  I also know how the Twins .take $5 and make it perform at $1 in FA with the 'dumpster fire' of recent reclamation projects (Hill, Bailey, Happ, Shoemaker, Colomb).  I have also witnessed the Spring Training hero (Garlick this year) turn into a pumpkin when the regular season begins (Ryan LaMarre a few years ago) - there is a reason these players do not become the saviors the Twins hope they will stumble upon, as they cannot sustain the SSS in the regular season without being exposed. 

I did make the points pertaining to Rosario from last September through April 2021 BTW; feel free to look them up.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, cHawk said:

They weren’t planning on Cave, Refsnyder, Garlick, etc to take up most of the starts. They were expecting Kirilloff to get the spot. He then got injured. At the time they non-tendered, Kirilloff’s baseline appeared to be essentially a Rosario-type player. Therefore, paying Rosario $10M would’ve been a bad allocation of resources.

BTW:  I explained the Twins foreknowledge of the AK balky wrist prior to this year above, so Twins Mgmt. planning for him to replace Rosario with a 'Rosario baseline' was ridiculous. 

That being said (dollars aside, which were wasted for pitiful FA performance), AK performed (with injury, but known) in 2021: .251 BA  .722 OPS  .6 OPS.  This does not equate to Rosario in his rookie year: .262 BA  .747 OPS  2.2 WAR, his average year: .275 BA .782 OPS  1.7 WAR, his last Twins year:  .257 BA  .792 OPS  .9 WAR, or in his best year: .288 BA .803 OPS  3.6 WAR. 

So, in a nutshell, this was a 'bad assumption,' given the AK injury history, his presence as a rookie, and the unappreciated production Rosario could/would produce (notwithstanding his bench presence and clutch potential in the playoffs - which he had proven, and AK has yet to do).  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, Crackedfungo said:

In a 6 year career since HS, he has had significant wrist injuries, causing him to miss 2/3 of a full season (over two seasons), and also missed an entire season with a URL injury.  I will eliminate the COVID year, since essentially everyone outside of the majors and 'taxi squad' was not able to play.  If you miss almost two full years, and have one injury (wrist) that has been a multi-year problem, coupled with a URL (no guarantee that it will not recur), I think that qualifies.  Particularly when he has really only completed 2 mostly full years of 5 (eliminating the 6 year due to COVID); with 3 years being out for a significant portion (or all) of a season.  Outside of Buxton like injuries (e.g. 'always injured') I would say that it is fair to say that he has been 'perpetually injured'.

Yes, the results of the redistribution of salary that could have been used to retain Rosario performed materially worse than retaining Rosario as I proved above (and was exacerbated by almost two-fold the cost and four-fold the lack of performance by WAR).  That does NOT mean that I do not believe that retaining Rosario wasn't just a better allocation of resources than the path they chose.  I DID think it was the right allocation of resources and worth doing.  To me, he was the best solution in LF (and for the clubhouse for $9MM) for 2020 at least until the trade deadline, at which time, you move him if needed for SOMETHING. 

I like AK.  I just did not believe he was ready to perform AND LAST for the entire year in LF.  He has had a wrist problem for two years.  The Twins knew this too, as evidenced by the quote below from Baldelli after the wrist issue he had in a previous year inflamed again:

"AK had a successful stint in the big leagues, but we knew that his wrist was an issue and it was something that he was playing through," Baldelli said. "We knew there could be a point in the year where he just could not continue playing through this, and the right and smart thing to do would be to go ahead and have the procedure that we knew was probably coming."

Just look at that $hitshow behind AK if he did not last!?!?  It was a carousel of ineptitude.  I also know how the Twins .take $5 and make it perform at $1 in FA with the 'dumpster fire' of recent reclamation projects (Hill, Bailey, Happ, Shoemaker, Colomb).  I have also witnessed the Spring Training hero (Garlick this year) turn into a pumpkin when the regular season begins (Ryan LaMarre a few years ago) - there is a reason these players do not become the saviors the Twins hope they will stumble upon, as they cannot sustain the SSS in the regular season without being exposed. 

I did make the points pertaining to Rosario from last September through April 2021 BTW; feel free to look them up.

Thanks for the source. I see what you mean about Kirilloff.

As for keeping Rosario, I still disagree with you. $10M, mathematically, is an overpay for 0.9 WAR. And if you look at him as a player, he really boils down to a corner outfielder with an above average bat but a bad glove, and a nearly impossible Baserunning WAR of -2.0 in 2020. He costed the team runs on a regular basis.

Any idea of getting something in a trade for him was a ****ing joke. They weren’t going to sell at the 2020 Deadline because they were going all in that year. They couldn’t trade him in the Offseason because he had zero trade value.

I agreed with letting Rosario walk, but I don’t think they had a sound plan to replace him.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share

Featured Video

×
×
  • Create New...