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Maggi returned to minors without getting into a game


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1 hour ago, tony&rodney said:

Poor move by the Twins. My position on current management has been mostly supportive but understanding that they did not have the experience of past front office teams. This move was unnecessary and classless, sad to see.

Agreed. Also mostly supportive of the FO, and Rocco, but Maggie not seeing the field in Toronto is just disappointing. I want to say stupid, silly, ugly, but will stick with disappointing. 

The Twins aren't playing for anything. Maggi will always be able to say he reached the ML level. He made something like $9K in 3 days! Good for him! But there was no reason whatsoever he couldn't have started a game or been thrown in half way through a game to actually see the field and maybe have an AB. Very disappointed in Rocco on this, especially being a former player. I hate to play this game but I'm betting Gardy and Kelly both, in a losing year, would have made sure he saw the field.

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22 minutes ago, DocBauer said:

Agreed. Also mostly supportive of the FO, and Rocco, but Maggie not seeing the field in Toronto is just disappointing. I want to say stupid, silly, ugly, but will stick with disappointing. 

The Twins aren't playing for anything. Maggi will always be able to say he reached the ML level. He made something like $9K in 3 days! Good for him! But there was no reason whatsoever he couldn't have started a game or been thrown in half way through a game to actually see the field and maybe have an AB. Very disappointed in Rocco on this, especially being a former player. I hate to play this game but I'm betting Gardy and Kelly both, in a losing year, would have made sure he saw the field.

I will say that Maggi is still on the 40-man roster and that there are still three series remaining. Any of Arraez, Donaldson, Simmons, or Sano could be shut down for that last week. It wouldn't surprise me if Maggi got another chance in the the final two series. Baldelli played to win against someone contending for a playoff spot, as he should have.

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22 minutes ago, stringer bell said:

I will say that Maggi is still on the 40-man roster and that there are still three series remaining. Any of Arraez, Donaldson, Simmons, or Sano could be shut down for that last week. It wouldn't surprise me if Maggi got another chance in the the final two series. Baldelli played to win against someone contending for a playoff spot, as he should have.

Agree you should ALWAYS play to win. 100%, even in a lost season when you are also auditioning various prospects for the next season. (How great would it be for a healthy Kirilloff and Larnach continuing to get ready for 2022)? Hopefully Miranda gets a taste yet this year. Very happy to see Gordon getting playing time and taking advantage of it. 

But I just can't agree with Rocco's choice to not let Maggi play in one of the 3 games in Toronto. If you are going to give the guy a taste of his dream, why wouldn't you give him just a little bigger bite and let him play in at least one game? I'd hope you would agree that in a lost season you can still try to win and give a guy like Maggi his one brief shot. I mean, what's the worst that could happen? He could do nothing in a losing game, or, MAYBE make a good play and get a hit. 

I just think his reward is a tiny bit hollow considering the circumstances. 

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10 minutes ago, DocBauer said:

Agree you should ALWAYS play to win. 100%, even in a lost season when you are also auditioning various prospects for the next season. (How great would it be for a healthy Kirilloff and Larnach continuing to get ready for 2022)? Hopefully Miranda gets a taste yet this year. Very happy to see Gordon getting playing time and taking advantage of it. 

But I just can't agree with Rocco's choice to not let Maggi play in one of the 3 games in Toronto. If you are going to give the guy a taste of his dream, why wouldn't you give him just a little bigger bite and let him play in at least one game? I'd hope you would agree that in a lost season you can still try to win and give a guy like Maggi his one brief shot. I mean, what's the worst that could happen? He could do nothing in a losing game, or, MAYBE make a good play and get a hit. 

I just think his reward is a tiny bit hollow considering the circumstances. 

As stringer pointed out, Maggi is still on the 40-man and the season isn’t over yet. He could still get a chance to play

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3 hours ago, DocBauer said:

I hate to play this game but I'm betting Gardy and Kelly both, in a losing year, would have made sure he saw the field.

You can bet the national debt - they sure would have. I'm really disappointed, It's such a little thing, but exactly what the players notice. Rocco lost me.

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Whether Maggi ever gets back or not, this was totally  classless and as usual clueless by Rocco. It would almost have to be intentional. And his completely BS statement about how emotional and difficult it was to send him back down just makes him sound more out of touch than most days. I have no personal investment in Drew Maggi, but this was crap. The Twins have been toast since May. For those who think you should always play two win? The Twins should have worked harder on that approach during last winter! 

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Agreed that the Twins should play to win against teams in the playoff race. Leaving him on the roster for the Cubs series and letting him have a couple of at-bats would not have had any impact on the playoff race.

The team plays this up as a big feel-good story and then ships him back without even letting him get a little dirt on his uniform? Bad play. This game has always been about stories like this, much more than any other sport, mainly because we have these long-term minor league guys who pursue the dream.

I hope he gets another shot during what's left of this nightmare season and can get in a game.

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4 hours ago, Platoon said:

Whether Maggi ever gets back or not, this was totally  classless and as usual clueless by Rocco.

Classless and clueless is in the eye of the beholder.  AL East opponents of the Jays might say it is classless to pinch hit a career minor leaguer in the ninth inning, for instance.

I was initially puzzled by the lack of game action, but the timing worked against Maggi (as can probably said every step of his career); he could have been a pinch hitter instead of Tortuga yesterday, with different luck. 

Maggi understands where he is in the team depth chart, even with Simmons underperforming, so that when the bona fide major leaguers come back he goes down.  Snubbing Simmons this late in the season might be viewed as classless and clueless, from other vantage points. The point being that Rocco and the FO deal with variables that we may not fully be privy to.

Crossing fingers Maggi gets another callup when we're playing the non-contenders.

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15 hours ago, stringer bell said:

I will say that Maggi is still on the 40-man roster and that there are still three series remaining. Any of Arraez, Donaldson, Simmons, or Sano could be shut down for that last week. It wouldn't surprise me if Maggi got another chance in the the final two series. Baldelli played to win against someone contending for a playoff spot, as he should have.

The 40-man isn't the limiting factor here, so much as the 28-man. While some guys will undoubtedly get days off in the season's final days, I am not sure if any of those names will go on the 10-day IL to open up a 28-man roster spot for Maggi. I suppose we could do a "phantom" IL placement before the last game of the season? Looks like a few clubs may have done something like that before their final game in 2020:

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/transactions/#month=9&year=2020

A few guys have options -- notably Astudillo among position players, and maybe Garza Jr., Barraclough, etc. among pitchers -- and the Saints schedule runs through Oct. 3 just like ours, although again that's a 10-day thing, unless you do it just before the last game.

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12 hours ago, a-wan said:

Who really gives a rip about Maggi getting into a game? He got called up, made the prorated salary of the major league minimum.

I care. It is just coincidental i happen to be out of rips. Yesterday was Tuesday, and someone spotted me a hamburger late last week...

 

Meh, did Mr. Gordon get similar treatment back in May or June? And there is more to the big leagues these days than is dreamt of in my philosophy... May not be wrong to not throw 'em in the deep end right away.

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Part of the reason he was added was that he was on the taxi squad and travelling with the team when they somehow found out they would be without Simmons in Toronto. Of course, the knowledge was 100% that this move would be temporary with Simmons being added back as soon as the team crossed the border.

 

Of course, it would've been nice to have him start a game (see J.T. Riddle) or come in during a game (Tzu-Wei Lin). Both of these guys got a moment to become a true Twins alumni.

 

Maggi joins a few guys who have been on the team roster and never played. First was Chuck Schilling, who was on the expanded rosters coming out of spring training and sat on the bench for the first month and called it quits rather than go back to the minors. Another was Alejandro Machado, who was a Rule 5 pick, got to sit on the disabled list for a season.

 

Juan Minaya almost made this list, being on the roster briefly last year but not getting into a game. Now he is a Twins alumni.

 

Tomas Telis was called into the dugout earlier this year but never got past the steps.

 

Maggi got three days pay, he is also on the 40-man for the rest of the season (maybe) and gets more pay because of that. And he could still drift over.

 

Did I leave anyone out? I'm sure there are a couple of more folks, as there are many that only played one game (Jamie Garcia, for example).

 

But, yes, would be nice if the guy could've lived the dream, getting the photograph of himself with bat in hand at the plate in a Twins uniform, or fielding a ball during a regular season game.

 

Used to be fun to see whom a team would add just for this reason when there was no limitations on September call-ups.

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Just less than a week ago we were saying it was a classy move for the FO to  add him to the 40-man and call him up, a career minor leaguer ... and now it's classless and clueless because they didn't get him into a game. Okay, hmm. While I wanted him to get into a game and am disappointed he did not and wish otherwise, I wouldn't call it classless

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Agree classless is a little much, but it sure would have been nice - and I think it would have been ok to be nice in this case. I will only hope Rocco gave him a heads up, and told him it would be quite unlikely, barring injury that he would get into a game. Hope we had the class (the nice) to prepare him in this way. I haven't heard of any busloads of parents, family and friends that made the long journey to Toronto, so maybe its all good here. 

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As for the Toronto series:

Game 1: we won 7-3. Presumably Maggi plays solid defense? If so, we could have easily justified inserting Maggi as a defensive replacement for the bottom of the ninth, either directly at 2B for Arraez or at SS with Polanco shifting to 2B. (Pinch-hitting would have been a little tougher, you would have had to pinch-hit for Arraez leading off the top of the 8th.)

Game 2: we lost 6-2. Astudillo played the whole game at 1B, seems like that would have been an easy spot to somehow switch Maggi in defensively for the last inning or two (Astudillo was the last out in the top of the 7th, Jays extended the lead to 4 in the bottom of the 7th). If you don't sub for Astudillo, note that Gordon, Polanco, and Donaldson went down quietly in the top of the 8th, so it would have been relatively painless to switch into one of those spots defensively for the bottom of the 8th. And if we still chose not to use Maggi on defense up to this point, once Kepler reached with 2 outs in the 9th, down 4 runs against the Jays closer, with Jeffers batting, Astudillo on deck, and Gordon in the hole, it seems like we could have pinch hit with Maggi without anyone thinking our "play to win" mission was particularly compromised.

Game 3: lost 5-3. Fell way behind early but we hung around this game. FWIW, Jake Cave made the last out, again vs the Jays closer -- Cave represented the tying run, although Rortvedt was on deck so a rally didn't seem super-likely. But probably the toughest of the 3 games to justify inserting Maggi.

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2 minutes ago, In My La Z boy said:

I haven't heard of any busloads of parents, family and friends that made the long journey to Toronto, so maybe its all good here. 

Maggi indeed did NOT have any family travel to Toronto, according to this:

https://www.mlb.com/news/drew-maggi-called-up-to-twins-after-11-minor-league-seasons

Making things tougher is the fact that his dad doesn't have a passport, and the short notice meant his family wouldn't be able to make it to Canada to potentially see him play.

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2 hours ago, ashbury said:

Classless and clueless is in the eye of the beholder.  AL East opponents of the Jays might say it is classless to pinch hit a career minor leaguer in the ninth inning, for instance.

I was initially puzzled by the lack of game action, but the timing worked against Maggi (as can probably said every step of his career); he could have been a pinch hitter instead of Tortuga yesterday, with different luck. 

Maggi understands where he is in the team depth chart, even with Simmons underperforming, so that when the bona fide major leaguers come back he goes down.  Snubbing Simmons this late in the season might be viewed as classless and clueless, from other vantage points. The point being that Rocco and the FO deal with variables that we may not fully be privy to.

Crossing fingers Maggi gets another callup when we're playing the non-contenders.

I don't think the Twins owe other AL East opponents, or any team for that matter, anything. I doubt the Yankees, TB, or the Jays were on the phone bitching when Astudillo threw an inning against Boston a month ago. Also, based on some of the guys they've handed major league playing time to this season, I don't know if I'd buy the "upholding the integrity of competition," argument from the Twins side.

Getting Maggi and AB or at least into a game defensively wouldn't have been all that hard. I'd stop short of calling it classless or clueless, but it's a bad look if you're going to celebrate his call up. 

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If a player is called up to the 40-man but not played, does that still entitle them to the post-retirement benefits (e.g. health plans, etc.) of an MLB player?

 

UPDATE: A Google link says 'yes'

Quote

Arguably, Major League Baseball ("MLB") offers one of the best pension and healthcare programs in all of sports. Players vest in their pensions after 43 days on the active roster and just one day qualifies a player for lifetime healthcare. Playing isn’t even a requirement, benchwarmers may qualify for benefits as well.

https://www.bclplaw.com/en-US/insights/blogs/benefits-bclp/major-league-baseball-pension-and-healthcare-benefits.html

If Maggi does decide to call it quits at age 32 after this season - that's one hell of a benefit. Even if Rocco didn't play him (boo) having him sit on the bench in Toronto is hardly a slap in the face.

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When I was a teenager, I coached/managed a Little League team. I played everyone each game. I did not have to do that, but I thought that was the right thing to do. One day one of my players, Butch Roberts, arrived late, after the game had already started. I forgot about him and did not play him. He had been late because his grandparents were in town and had come o see him play.  I still feel badly about that 60 years after the fact.  Little League, college, minors or major leagues, baseball is still just a game played and managed by by human beings, who have feelings and dreams.   Rocco messed up and I hope Rocco apologized to Maggi.

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All I’ll say it’s that it’s a bummer for Maggi that he didn’t play. But MLB is about winning games, and no one has a right to even be on the roster. I’m sure he’s grateful for the experience and probably hopes to get another chance. 

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On 9/22/2021 at 11:00 AM, ashbury said:

Classless and clueless is in the eye of the beholder.  AL East opponents of the Jays might say it is classless to pinch hit a career minor leaguer in the ninth inning, for instance.

I was initially puzzled by the lack of game action, but the timing worked against Maggi (as can probably said every step of his career); he could have been a pinch hitter instead of Tortuga yesterday, with different luck. 

Maggi understands where he is in the team depth chart, even with Simmons underperforming, so that when the bona fide major leaguers come back he goes down.  Snubbing Simmons this late in the season might be viewed as classless and clueless, from other vantage points. The point being that Rocco and the FO deal with variables that we may not fully be privy to.

Crossing fingers Maggi gets another callup when we're playing the non-contenders.

"Snubbing Simmons"   Really?

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22 hours ago, Sousy said:

If a player is called up to the 40-man but not played, does that still entitle them to the post-retirement benefits (e.g. health plans, etc.) of an MLB player?

 

UPDATE: A Google link says 'yes'

https://www.bclplaw.com/en-US/insights/blogs/benefits-bclp/major-league-baseball-pension-and-healthcare-benefits.html

If Maggi does decide to call it quits at age 32 after this season - that's one hell of a benefit. Even if Rocco didn't play him (boo) having him sit on the bench in Toronto is hardly a slap in the face.

This is a common misconception that I have repeated in the past too. But apparently one day of MLB service time only qualifies a player to *buy into* the MLB player health plan for life. It's not free for non-active players. (It's probably a pretty good health plan, but I'm not sure how much it costs.)

And the pension benefit for 43 days of service (one-quarter of a season) is far from lucrative or even livable. Here's a document detailing pension benefits from 2012. Best as I can calculate, from page 114 and the table 7 on page 112, 43 days of service would have resulted in a pension of $328 per month, approx. $4,000 per year, beginning at age 62.

To get ~$30,000 per year at age 62, you'd need 2 full years of MLB service time.

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While it was a feel-good story, Maggi's call-up last weekend was fully legitimate -- we had a shortstop inactive for reasons unrelated to getting Maggi on the roster, and Maggi was the #1 shortstop in St. Paul with a respectable 122 wRC+ on the season to boot.

And getting into a 4-run game late in Toronto, as either a pinch hitter or defensive replacement, would have served some legitimate purpose too -- get his feet wet in case we actually needed him to enter or even start a future, closer game.

Maggi may still return to the Twins this season and see game action, but it's likely to look a bit more forced -- for example, a phantom IL trip for someone, combined with a scrubs lineup or mass substitutions in game 162. It still counts, of course, and he could have advance notice for family to attend, but it would have also been nice to take more advantage of the natural opportunity that presented itself last weekend. He earned it!

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On 9/21/2021 at 8:58 PM, DocBauer said:

Agree you should ALWAYS play to win. 100%, even in a lost season when you are also auditioning various prospects for the next season. (How great would it be for a healthy Kirilloff and Larnach continuing to get ready for 2022)? Hopefully Miranda gets a taste yet this year. Very happy to see Gordon getting playing time and taking advantage of it. 

But I just can't agree with Rocco's choice to not let Maggi play in one of the 3 games in Toronto. If you are going to give the guy a taste of his dream, why wouldn't you give him just a little bigger bite and let him play in at least one game? I'd hope you would agree that in a lost season you can still try to win and give a guy like Maggi his one brief shot. I mean, what's the worst that could happen? He could do nothing in a losing game, or, MAYBE make a good play and get a hit. 

I just think his reward is a tiny bit hollow considering the circumstances. 

Excellent remarks Doc.  Just incomprehensible that Baldelli couldn't find a situation to insert Maggi into a game especially considering he PROVED his bat was productive all season at Saint Paul.  Just hope that he gets recalled and given a chance to get at least 1AB before the end of the season.

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