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FREE JOE RYAN!


As we all know, with the loss of Maeda, the Twins rotation has gone from bad to laughable.

Drew Strotman hasn't pitched well since being traded for Nelson Cruz.

Randy Dobnak is still on the rehab path.

Joe Ryan was in Tokyo pitching for Team USA until... he wasn't. And while I supported the logical step of letting him have a few starts in the Twins organization to re-acclimate himself to the cycles of American baseball and familiarize himself with his new organization, this season isn't going to last forever. Every start the Twins give to the likes of Andrew Albers into September is one fewer start they can use to evaluate the likes of Joe Ryan.

The Twins were put into a really bad situation with Strotman struggling, Ryan in Tokyo, and seemingly half their minor leagues injured. I'm willing to be patient when things spiral out of the team's control and they're forced to run Charlie Barnes out there every fifth day.

Except my patience runs out when other, vastly superior options become available. And as of about 8pm yesterday, a *very* attractive option became available and the Uber ride to Target Field won't even cost the team $30.

Two games and this is what he has done. Never mind that he pitched to a 1.50 ERA in the Olympics, including a 4.1 IP with 1 ER in the silver medal game against Team Japan.

FREE JOE RYAN

2021 Player Pitching Game Log
Rk Date Lev Tm   Opp Inngs Dec IP H R ER BB SO HR HBP GSc AB 2B 3B IBB GDP SF SB CS PO BF Pit Str StL StS GB FB LD PU
13 2021-08-20 AAA-AAAE St. Paul Saints   Iowa Cubs 1-4   4.0 1 1 1 1 9 1 0 64 14 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 15 67 49 15 12 4 1 1 0
14 2021-08-25 AAA-AAAE St. Paul Saints @ Toledo Mud Hens 1-5   5.0 4 1 1 1 8 0 0 62 17 1 0 0 0 1 2 0 0 19 81 52 16 10 6 4 1 0
Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Original Table
Generated 8/26/2021.
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Have to believe they are waiting for September when rosters expand although given what they have on the 40 man right now it shouldn't really matter or they just don't want to start his clock because they don't know how the new CBA will work.  I guess we'll find out.

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All comes to he, or she, who waits!  Let's all take a breath, sit back and be patient.  Whether he makes one more start for the Saints, or none or two won't change his future with the Twins and his role next year.   Ryan will pitch for the Twins and odds are it will be soon. 

 

 

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Is the roster expansion to 28 in September a covid thing or a permanent rule?

They have to find room for Joe Ryan either way. They have plenty of options to make that happen. I was just curious on that.

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Just now, Tibs said:

Is the roster expansion to 28 in September a covid thing or a permanent rule?

Permanent rule from before Covid hit, and I kinda hate it.

I understand not allowing the entire 40-man in September but 28 is too effing low for rebuilding teams who need to try out young players. 30 would have been a much better middle ground to appease owner cheapness and other considerations that went into the 28-man decision.

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5 hours ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

Permanent rule from before Covid hit, and I kinda hate it.

I understand not allowing the entire 40-man in September but 28 is too effing low for rebuilding teams who need to try out young players. 30 would have been a much better middle ground to appease owner cheapness and other considerations that went into the 28-man decision.

The problem is, it's all relievers anyway. So 30 wouldn't be much better than the full 40 -- it's still 4 extra relievers, and with options it's probably more like 6+ relievers cycling through the 4 extra spots.

I think there were proposed limits on the number of pitchers but those have been waived the past two seasons. If those come back, maybe you could let the rosters expand to 30 or more again -- just limit the pitching staff to, say, 14.

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5 hours ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

I understand not allowing the entire 40-man in September but 28 is too effing low for rebuilding teams who need to try out young players.

On the other hand, rebuilding teams don't need to wait to try out young players in September either -- they can do it all season. And even at 28, there should be more than enough spots to work with in September too.

Look at the Twins this year -- if any young players have been, or will be, held back due to MLB roster size considerations, I'd chalk it up to irrationality on the Twins part. The opportunities are there.

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I'd love to see them bring Ryan up for his next start at the MLB level. Given that he pitched yesterday, He would be in line for Detroit on 8/30 or the Cubs on 8/31 or 9/1. My money is either the Cubs on 9/1 or another start in AAA and then a start in MLB on about ('6 or 9"7 against Cleveland at home. That way they can use the extra two spots to not have to make a corresponding move.

The big problem this team will have is getting enough relievers/relief innings. They don't have anyone likely to go more than 5 innings a start so there will be a lot of relief innings to cover. The bullpen is already imploding under the strain of 5 inning starts. We will need to cover at least 5 or 6 innings tonight - no way Gant goes more than 4 and my money is on 3 -   and we got no one to do it unless they piggyback Barnes. If they do that, then who starts this weekend? They have Albers Friday and then who if they use Barnes tonight? Jax isn't up until Sunday. This is a mess.   

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22 minutes ago, Otto von Ballpark said:

The problem is, it's all relievers anyway. So 30 wouldn't be much better than the full 40 -- it's still 4 extra relievers, and with options it's probably more like 6+ relievers cycling through the 4 extra spots.

I think there were proposed limits on the number of pitchers but those have been waived the past two seasons. If those come back, maybe you could let the rosters expand to 30 or more again -- just limit the pitching staff to, say, 14.

Oh yeah definitely, that's why I specifically called out rebuilding teams, who can definitely use the extra slots for non-reliever tryouts.

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5 minutes ago, LA VIkes Fan said:

The big problem this team will have is getting enough relievers/relief innings. They don't have anyone likely to go more than 5 innings a start so there will be a lot of relief innings to cover. The bullpen is already imploding under the strain of 5 inning starts. We will need to cover at least 5 or 6 innings tonight - no way Gant goes more than 4 and my money is on 3 -   and we got no one to do it unless they piggyback Barnes. If they do that, then who starts this weekend? They have Albers Friday and then who if they use Barnes tonight? Jax isn't up until Sunday. This is a mess.   

They don't really need to use Barnes tonight. Gant threw 60 pitches last time, and I wouldn't be surprised if they let him go more (he was a full start through mid-June this season). Garcia, Barraclough, and Minaya should be good to go, and Coulombe and Colomé should be fine too. With a 3-batter minimum and the runner in extra innings, they shouldn't need more than 6 pitchers. But if they wanted, it's not like Garza, Duffey, or Thielbar would necessarily be off-limits for a short appearance either.

Now, those pitchers may stay in a little longer than their effectiveness warrants, and we may eschew playing matchups etc., but that's all part of playing out string. :)

From today's game recap:

Bullpen Usage Chart

  THURS FRI SAT TUE WED TOT
Barnes 0 109 0 0 0 109
Minaya 0 16 0 30 0 46
Albers 63 0 0 0 0 63
García 0 0 28 0 0 28
Gant 61 0 0 0 0 61
Garza Jr. 0 0 31 0 24 55
Barraclough 0 46 0 0 4 50
Duffey 0 0 0 19 9 33
Colomé 0 0 0 0 20 0
Coulombe 19 0 0 0 19 19
Thielbar 0 0 0 14 22 23
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14 minutes ago, LA VIkes Fan said:

This is a mess.   

Very good points all, but you've really hit it on the head with your last sentence here.

That said, wouldn't Joe Ryan at least contribute to helping clean up the mess? Maybe he starts, or maybe he slots into a Gant-type role himself, piggy backing on Albert, Barnes, Jax, etc.

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14 minutes ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

Oh yeah definitely, that's why I specifically called out rebuilding teams, who can definitely use the extra slots for non-reliever tryouts.

Although once you get past 28, how much are those guys even going to play? The minor league season is active until October this year too, so teams could easily send out anyone with options for 10 days if they're not starting anyway -- i.e. Astudillo, or Gordon when he's usually been on the bench, or Cave when Buxton comes back, etc.

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Note that after Ryan made his Saints debut, his 2nd start came on normal rest. Doesn't look like they're trying to get him extra rest between starts at the moment, like they've been doing at the MLB level.

So that means Ryan could slot in Monday in Detroit on normal rest, thus giving Ober an extra day of rest by pushing him to Tuesday.

(I noted elsewhere that Ryan and the Saints are in Toledo through Sunday, so it would be very easy for Ryan to meet up with the Twins in Detroit for Monday.)

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10 minutes ago, Otto von Ballpark said:

Although once you get past 28, how much are those guys even going to play? The minor league season is active until October this year too, so teams could easily send out anyone with options for 10 days if they're not starting anyway -- i.e. Astudillo, or Gordon when he's usually been on the bench, or Cave when Buxton comes back, etc.

Good point about the MiLB season. I knew it was extended but didn't realize it extended into October. I thought it was over the second week of September.

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1 hour ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

Good point about the MiLB season. I knew it was extended but didn't realize it extended into October. I thought it was over the second week of September.

AAA was originally scheduled through Sep. 19/21, but they added 10 games last month in lieu of playoffs:

https://ballparkdigest.com/2021/07/14/milb-turns-triple-a-extended-season-to-tourney-kinda/

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4 hours ago, Otto von Ballpark said:

AAA was originally scheduled through Sep. 19/21, but they added 10 games last month in lieu of playoffs:

https://ballparkdigest.com/2021/07/14/milb-turns-triple-a-extended-season-to-tourney-kinda/

Except those extra 10 games are part of a playoff format from what I read and heard a month or so ago. Originally, the idea was to simply extend the season for all teams to get extra work for prospects in the system. They changed that idea to have playoffs for the top teams only to crown a sort of champion. So unless we have a milb team at the top of their division, we, and everyone else, lose the extra 10 game for play and development.

MLB and it's infinite wisdom messing even further with milb after a lost 2020 year.

And I have been on my soapbox for some time now about the absolutely ridiculous September call up restrictions. MLB decided the integrity of the game in September pennant races would suffer from teams playing a large number of milb players. Have they paid attention to history or some of the current teams this season? How does a bad team be "worse" by playing some young talent to get them experience before the next year?

Idiocy at its best. 

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The question for Ryan is what is best for him, and his future with the Twins, and NOT about a horrible rotation right now in a lost season. Ideally, he'd get at least one more start at St Paul to continue settling back in to a normal routine. Ideally. And I'm on the "what's best for Ryan" wagon.

BUUUUUT....I believe I've changed my stance. And I've done so because he's "riding the lightening" right now. He's been good at AAA, looked amazing in the Olympics, and had a pair of great starts for St Paul. I think it's his time. And he doesn't even have to catch a flight to just travel across town to make his debut. By the time he does, he will have had a couple weeks for his body and head  to adjust to being HOME again.

It's time.

Further, and off topic again, Dobnak will hopefully be healthy and ready to go soon. And a few starts for him to finish the season could be very important as a springboard for 2022. This also allows Gant to stick to the pen. He MIGHT have a role as a middle man in 2022 but does anyone really think he's even a HOPE for the rotation? No. And Albers, sorry, is doubtful to be the next Thielbar.

It's Ryan's time NOW. Get him up here and get his feet wet. Get a healthy Dobnak up ASAP as well. Then keep running through BP options from St Paul. September is about getting ready for 2022 and paving a new road.

 

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11 hours ago, LA VIkes Fan said:

I'd love to see them bring Ryan up for his next start at the MLB level. Given that he pitched yesterday, He would be in line for Detroit on 8/30 or the Cubs on 8/31 or 9/1. My money is either the Cubs on 9/1 or another start in AAA and then a start in MLB on about ('6 or 9"7 against Cleveland at home. That way they can use the extra two spots to not have to make a corresponding move.

9/1 against the Cubs would be the perfect time to give him his first start. The Cubs lineup looks like a AAA lineup, so it'll be like he's still in St.Paul. Would be a nice way for him to get acclimated to the majors and possibly pick up his first win.

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Yes. I would have already had him up. He is already 25, and after getting the plate umpire to fist bump him during his final appearance in the Olympics against South Korea to lead the charge and qualify Team USA for the Gold Medal game (he did not pitch in the final game against Japan for the Gold in which they lost and therefore won the Silver....), I was ready then. Then I was ready after the first game he pitched in St. Paul, and certainly ready now. FREE JOE RYAN~!~!~!~!

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11 hours ago, DocBauer said:

Except those extra 10 games are part of a playoff format from what I read and heard a month or so ago. Originally, the idea was to simply extend the season for all teams to get extra work for prospects in the system. They changed that idea to have playoffs for the top teams only to crown a sort of champion. So unless we have a milb team at the top of their division, we, and everyone else, lose the extra 10 game for play and development.

MLB and it's infinite wisdom messing even further with milb after a lost 2020 year.

Not quite. There are indeed 10 extra games, for all 30 AAA teams.

As described in the link I posted above, those 10 games are ostensibly part of a "tournament" but there's no seeding or anything. It's basically just 2 extra series, 10 extra games, for every team. The Saints will have 5 against Toledo, one of the best AAA teams, and 5 games vs Iowa, one of the worst.

The "tournament champion" is whatever team has the best record over those 10 games, with regular-season record as the inevitable tiebreaker. I think it will be difficult, structurally, to get too excited about it.

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