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We can't have nice things, episode 1740: Maeda to have elbow surgery


Squirrel
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9 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Ugh. If he needs surgery, they literally have ZERO experienced SP signed for next year. Ugh.

Also, I feel bad for him. 

Yeah, this sucks for everyone involved. The Twins have no respectable, controlled pitchers for next season and Maeda's contract is so incentive-based that he goes from being a ~$10m player to a $3m player if he misses 2022.

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Just looking at starters on the Saint's roster ... first, who is on the 40-man ... Burrows (I thought he was removed?), Duran (IL), Farrell (rehab assignment) and Strotman ... I think they will go with Strotman first. Dobnak has had 1 rehab start in Fort Myers, but he may be back up soon-ish. Then there are several not on the 40-man ... and of course, Ryan tops that list for me. Sheesh ... they gotta start trying these arms. This is just not good.

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2 minutes ago, Squirrel said:

Just looking at starters on the Saint's roster ... first, who is on the 40-man ... Burrows (I thought he was removed?), Duran (IL), Farrell (rehab assignment) and Strotman ... I think they will go with Strotman first. Dobnak has had 1 rehab start in Fort Myers, but he may be back up soon-ish. Then there are several not on the 40-man ... and of course, Ryan tops that list for me. Sheesh ... they gotta start trying these arms. This is just not good.

My guess is: Dobnak, Ryan, Strotman.

Dobnak may bump back down if he's not stretched out enough and/or has a setback but I think the Twins are loathe to starting adding pitchers to the 40-man willy-nilly because they have sooooooo many players on the 60-day IL and have so many hard decisions to make. I think they want to be really confident in any 40-man addition before pulling the trigger on a new player being added.

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2 minutes ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

My guess is: Dobnak, Ryan, Strotman.

Dobnak may bump back down if he's not stretched out enough and/or has a setback but I think the Twins are loathe to starting adding pitchers to the 40-man willy-nilly because they have sooooooo many players on the 60-day IL and have so many hard decisions to make. I think they want to be really confident in any 40-man addition before pulling the trigger on a new player being added.

I agree ... That's why I mentioned Strotman as first up, because of those on the 40-man, well ... who else is there? And then Dobnak - I think they will want him to make another rehab start before they can determine for certain he's ready. Ryan isn't yet on the 40-man ... I hope he gets an opportunity in September, but I don't see him being the first up, even though he's the one I want to see most. He's also scheduled to pitch tomorrow in St. Paul, I think Strotman is scheduled for Friday or Saturday (?). That fits better into our schedule of need ... unless they bring Ryan up for Thursday? Ugh ... will have to wait and see ... and Maeda hasn't been placed on the IL officially yet, I don't think. (Someone correct me on that if I'm wrong.) 

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3 minutes ago, Squirrel said:

I agree ... That's why I mentioned Strotman as first up, because of those on the 40-man, well ... who else is there? And then Dobnak - I think they will want him to make another rehab start before they can determine for certain he's ready. Ryan isn't yet on the 40-man ... I hope he gets an opportunity in September, but I don't see him being the first up, even though he's the one I want to see most. He's also scheduled to pitch tomorrow in St. Paul, I think Strotman is scheduled for Friday or Saturday (?). That fits better into our schedule of need ... unless they bring Ryan up for Thursday? Ugh ... will have to wait and see ... and Maeda hasn't been placed on the IL officially yet, I don't think. (Someone correct me on that if I'm wrong.) 

You're right, I flipped Strotman and Ryan without thinking. Strotman has the 40-man spot and will likely be in line before Ryan.

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If they are really worried about the 40 man, I agree, Strotman is next up. If they are really worried about next year, and willing to lose a RP that might turn out to be good, they'll bring up Ryan this year to get his feet wet. 

Ober, Jax, and NO ONE ELSE is the current list of SPs they are likely counting on next year (and Jax is a bit of a stretch, IMO). If Maeda is out next year, I don't see any realistic path to having a good pitching staff. It's just a hill to far to climb. So, I guess they can pass on Ryan and wait until next year....I mean, if next year is already a lost cause, may as well wait on him until June or so.

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Honestly, there is no reason that Strotman and Ryan aren't up right now (unless there's an injury I don't know about). Strotman's 24, Ryan is 25. They should be in the majors and learn at that level. None of the pitchers currently getting starts in the majors have better upside. The longer they stay down, the more we should consider it another huge mistake by the FO. And, frankly, Balazovic should be at AAA to end the season.

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13 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

If they are really worried about the 40 man, I agree, Strotman is next up. If they are really worried about next year, and willing to lose a RP that might turn out to be good, they'll bring up Ryan this year to get his feet wet. 

Ober, Jax, and NO ONE ELSE is the current list of SPs they are likely counting on next year (and Jax is a bit of a stretch, IMO). If Maeda is out next year, I don't see any realistic path to having a good pitching staff. It's just a hill to far to climb. So, I guess they can pass on Ryan and wait until next year....I mean, if next year is already a lost cause, may as well wait on him until June or so.

I mostly agree, I simply haven't looked at the current IL to see who they might actually lose.

But given the overall quality of this team, particularly the pitching staff, I don't think I'd have too hard a time removing 3+ names from the 40-man without thinking about it too hard.

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1 minute ago, gunnarthor said:

Honestly, there is no reason that Strotman and Ryan aren't up right now (unless there's an injury I don't know about). Strotman's 24, Ryan is 25. They should be in the majors and learn at that level. None of the pitchers currently getting starts in the majors have better upside. The longer they stay down, the more we should consider it another huge mistake by the FO. And, frankly, Balazovic should be at AAA to end the season.

Why do their ages matter so much when both players have been in the org under 30 days?

Especially Ryan, who just came back from the Olympics with massive lay-offs between pitching opportunities. The Twins have never seen him pitch in person or coached him. It's pretty reasonable they didn't ship him straight to Minnesota from Tokyo.

With that said, I'd try *really* hard to find a way to get both, at minimum one, of them pitching in Minnesota in the next 7-10 days.

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Just now, Squirrel said:

Gant is already scheduled to start on Thursday. (Not sure why no one looks at that.) Is that a bp game? 

I don't understand this decision at all. They have Ryan and Strotman and Albers who can start. Gant is a RP, plain and simple. Why do bullpen games at this point? And, if you are, why isn't Moran up and playing in them? Heck, they have Barnes too to start. 

Ober, Jax, Barnes, Albers, Strotman. OR, better,

Ober, Jax, Strotman, Ryan, Dobnak

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2 minutes ago, Squirrel said:

Gant is already scheduled to start on Thursday. (Not sure why no one looks at that.) Is that a bp game? 

Gant is taking the mound, making it a bullpen game no matter what the plan may be going into the first inning.

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1 minute ago, Mike Sixel said:

I don't understand this decision at all. They have Ryan and Strotman and Albers who can start.

*groans*

There's a guy I wouldn't hesitate to replace with either Strotman or Ryan about five minutes from now.

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1 minute ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

*groans*

There's a guy I wouldn't hesitate to replace with either Strotman or Ryan about five minutes from now.

I don't disagree.....see my other post of possible starters. But I'd rather Albers start and Gant come in in relief, than the other way around. Gant should pitch 1-2 innings. That's his best role, IMO. 

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Just now, Mike Sixel said:

I don't disagree.....see my other post of possible starters. But I'd rather Albers start and Gant come in in relief, than the other way around. Gant should pitch 1-2 innings. That's his best role, IMO. 

Oh, without a doubt. I'm actually of the opinion I'd consider keeping Gant next season because I think he could be a decent 5/6 bullpen piece.

As a starter, though:

Flaming On Fire GIF

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Now correct me if I am wrong, because I did not watch the game, but I've heard others mention that John Smoltz in the booth had mentioned that he was shaking his arm after 6 or 7 consecutive pitches and that it was very easy to see something was wrong and that no one from the Twins dugout came out to check on him. 

If true, this is ridiculous. If Smoltz notices then every coach on the Twins should have noticed. Are the coaches just sleepwalking through the remainder of the season?

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9 minutes ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

Why do their ages matter so much when both players have been in the org under 30 days?

Especially Ryan, who just came back from the Olympics with massive lay-offs between pitching opportunities. The Twins have never seen him pitch in person or coached him. It's pretty reasonable they didn't ship him straight to Minnesota from Tokyo.

With that said, I'd try *really* hard to find a way to get both, at minimum one, of them pitching in Minnesota in the next 7-10 days.

Why is it reasonable? These guys are old, they've had success at AAA. What are we waiting for? There is still a big learning curve ahead for them in the majors. Why shouldn't they start now? Berrios had 400 ML innings in by his 24 year old season. The way the Twins work, these guys will be lucky to get 30 ML innings in in 7 starts.

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2 minutes ago, Azviking101 said:

Now correct me if I am wrong, because I did not watch the game, but I've heard others mention that John Smoltz in the booth had mentioned that he was shaking his arm after 6 or 7 consecutive pitches and that it was very easy to see something was wrong and that no one from the Twins dugout came out to check on him. 

If true, this is ridiculous. If Smoltz notices then every coach on the Twins should have noticed. Are the coaches just sleepwalking through the remainder of the season?

Yeah, it's a pretty rough indictment of Rocco's staff.

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42 minutes ago, Squirrel said:

I agree ... That's why I mentioned Strotman as first up, because of those on the 40-man, well ... who else is there? And then Dobnak - I think they will want him to make another rehab start before they can determine for certain he's ready. Ryan isn't yet on the 40-man ... I hope he gets an opportunity in September, but I don't see him being the first up, even though he's the one I want to see most. He's also scheduled to pitch tomorrow in St. Paul, I think Strotman is scheduled for Friday or Saturday (?). That fits better into our schedule of need ... unless they bring Ryan up for Thursday? Ugh ... will have to wait and see ... and Maeda hasn't been placed on the IL officially yet, I don't think. (Someone correct me on that if I'm wrong.) 

They put Maeda on the IL yesterday, with Sano taking his spot.

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5 minutes ago, gunnarthor said:

Why is it reasonable? These guys are old, they've had success at AAA. What are we waiting for? There is still a big learning curve ahead for them in the majors. Why shouldn't they start now? Berrios had 400 ML innings in by his 24 year old season. The way the Twins work, these guys will be lucky to get 30 ML innings in in 7 starts.

You're looking purely at age, I'm looking at situation.

Ryan missed a month of the minors, only to come back with an entirely new organization after pitching erratically in a very different environment. Giving him a couple of "get back into the flow" starts before tossing him amongst the wolves is a reasonable development and comfort strategy.

And if Strotman was pitching better, I'd already have called him up after a couple of "here's your new org" starts. The thing is that... he hasn't been very good since coming to St Paul.

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Just now, yeahyabetcha said:

I don’t see anything wrong with stretching Gant out and looking at him as a starter.  Despite all the demands to promote others , the fact is none of them have been exactly been pitching all that well or at least consistent to demand a call up

Gant is 28 years old and has over 40 career MLB starts. I don't know how much more anyone needs to see of him as a starter, just look at the film.

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