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Thorpe's "shoulder soreness" certainly did not start yesterday given his decrease in velocity.  I would imagine he was trying to put on a brave face since he is on the cusp of the majors, and somehow the Twins were not able to see past that.  A failure on both sides, but frankly it's amazing to me that the Twins would measure a significant drop in velocity and not deeply examine the guy's arm.  Of course we don't know what happens behind the scenes, but it seems likely that his arm has not been healthy for a long time.

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1 hour ago, Tibs said:

Sure Colome didn't have his best outing, but Jeffers absolutely has to make a better effort to block that pitch that allowed the tying run to score. It was not a good pitch whatsoever and that's on Colome. However, Jeffers absolutely has to get in front of that ball. All he did was kind of move his body and throw his glove in front of it. You can't let a ball by you like that when there are two outs in the 9th and the tying run is on third.

I never get past how many Twins fans believe catchers can slow time down and move like they're Neo in the Matrix around here. Jeffers blocked plenty of pitches spiked in the dirt yesterday. Any and every pitch spiked in the dirt which is blocked is 50% luck and 50% technique. When 100mph balls are spiked in the dirt, it's total luck in regard to the angle the ball bounces and it's at best a guessing game. The ball is traveling at 135-150 feet per second. It has to travel 3 feet to reach the catcher after it spikes off the ground, now traveling with a randomized trajectory. It reaches the catchers body (if it his the body) in 0.2 seconds. Your eye cannot blink faster than 0.1 seconds. The catcher cannot physically make any adaptation to block a pitch once it's hit the dirt and they've already committed to their guess at where the pitch will ricochet. 

I'm sure folks like to watch the slow motion replay as they play the Matrix theme in the back of their minds while imaging shockwaves behind the ball and the catcher floating off the ground, but here in real life, it doesn't happen.

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1 hour ago, TwinsAce said:

Cardinals and Brewers had a similar wild pitch in the top of the 10th.  The Cardinals pitcher bounced it, but Molina wasn't able to stop it.  Not quite the same since Colome bounced it sooner and the Cardinals pitcher bounced it closer to the plate but farther in.  But in some ways, it shows that even the veterans or best catchers can't stop all wild pitches, even ones that are close to the plate.

Sure, that's fine. I understand not every pitch can be stopped. It was a terrible pitch by Colome. The problem is Jeffers seemingly made no effort to get his body in front of the pitch. I think the cause of that is how the Twins are having their catchers set up to receive the pitch. Just seems to me in that situation every effort should be made to not allow the tying run to score on a ball that gets by the catcher.

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12 minutes ago, bean5302 said:

I never get past how many Twins fans believe catchers can slow time down and move like they're Neo in the Matrix around here. Jeffers blocked plenty of pitches spiked in the dirt yesterday. Any and every pitch spiked in the dirt which is blocked is 50% luck and 50% technique. When 100mph balls are spiked in the dirt, it's total luck in regard to the angle the ball bounces and it's at best a guessing game. The ball is traveling at 135-150 feet per second. It has to travel 3 feet to reach the catcher after it spikes off the ground, now traveling with a randomized trajectory. It reaches the catchers body (if it his the body) in 0.2 seconds. Your eye cannot blink faster than 0.1 seconds. The catcher cannot physically make any adaptation to block a pitch once it's hit the dirt and they've already committed to their guess at where the pitch will ricochet. 

I'm sure folks like to watch the slow motion replay as they play the Matrix theme in the back of their minds while imaging shockwaves behind the ball and the catcher floating off the ground, but here in real life, it doesn't happen.

I'm sorry for wanting to see the catcher make a better effort to move his body in front of a ball with the tying run on 3rd with two outs in the 9th inning. That's literally all I said. I don't expect every single pitch ever to be blocked by the catcher. It was a horrible pitch by Colome.

Everything else you added is putting words in my mouth.

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Its so much fun to watch a player who is totally dialed in like Polanco is right now. They go up there 'knowing' they are going to succeed. They stay hot for a spell, then its back to normal. But its those streaks that make stats so unreliable for the day by day fan who watches the game for pure enjoyment.  A .300 BA or a ..900 OPS doesn't always tell the story of when a player goes nuts for a week and is responsible for  all the team's wins.

Back in June 1990 a journeyman named Sam Horn had been sent down to Rochester from Baltimore. He was hitting .211 on June 23rd when the Wings faced Tidewater in a double header. On the 23rd, he homered on 3 consecutive AB's, driving in 8 runs..the outburst consisted of a pair of 2 run HR's in game one and and grand slam in the nitecap.. Next day he hit two 3-run HR's. When he came up in the 8th inning the crowd gave him a standing O when he hit a deep fly out to center field. So, in 21 hours he raised his BA from .211 to .345; he went 6-10, scoring 6 runs, drove in 14 and smashed 5 HR's. he was back in Baltimore on July 3rd,

Was that fun to watch? You bet it was. Did he ever come close to doing it again? Nope.

With Cruz gone, is Polanco our team MVP? Probably. He is having a great second half. Can the Twins catch Detroit and Cleveland? they could if winning is a priority, along with testing the young talent. Would finishing 2nd matter? I believe it would because if would bode well for the team being competitive again in 2022, which is their bigger objective.

I think the motivation to win will be strong this weekend when the hated Yankees are the opposition. Twins need to show everyone that they can beat The Payroll, the Evil Empire and whatever nickname suits your fancy. Yanks are hot right now, and playoff bound again, so it would be VERY sweet to slow them down.

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10 minutes ago, Tibs said:

I'm sorry for wanting to see the catcher make a better effort to move his body in front of a ball...

The catcher tries to move his 250lb body with gear within 1/2 a second to change his stance and position in front of where he's guessing the ball will go. He does not know exactly where the ball will go and cannot physically make any adjustment after the ball hits the dirt. How hard is that to understand?

I didn't put words in your mouth. I explained how unreasonable your expectations (and several others on the site) of human anatomy were.

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I can't figure out why Kepler remains in the leadoff spot. It's starting to irritate me to see his name at the top of the box score. He's a great defender, but a .300 OBP leading off? That's worse than Sano!

(Maybe he agreed to wash Baldelli's car on the weekends?)

 

How about calling up Jimmy Kerrigan? He couldn't be worse at the plate than Kepler who has been woeful against lefties and simply mediocre against righties. Kerrigan is also a competent fielder.

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4 minutes ago, Aerodeliria said:

I can't figure out why Kepler remains in the leadoff spot. It's starting to irritate me to see his name at the top of the box score. He's a great defender, but a .300 OBP leading off? That's worse than Sano!

Yeah.  Arraez should be leading off.

Honestly, picking the leadoff hitter is the easiest spot to fill in the lineup.  Not sure why the Twins struggle with this one year after year.  Sure, Baldelli says he makes choices based on what he thinks gives them their best chance to win.  

Picard Facepalm GIF by MOODMAN

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4 hours ago, Tibs said:

I'm sorry for wanting to see the catcher make a better effort to move his body in front of a ball with the tying run on 3rd with two outs in the 9th inning. That's literally all I said. I don't expect every single pitch ever to be blocked by the catcher. It was a horrible pitch by Colome.

Everything else you added is putting words in my mouth.

Some can't help but to fansplain. I agree with you. You said something simple, and the rest was projection. Colome spiked like 3 in a row, with each one getting worse. This new sitting down on the job that our catchers (and others) are doing is not helping. I called the WP on the game thread. I knew it was coming. It was Colome pitching.

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8 hours ago, theBOMisthebomb said:

 

The Legend of Lewis Thorpe and his early days continues to grow. It's not that I don't believe these tales of greatness, they just are so different than what he flashes today. It makes me even more nervous to give up Berrios for prospects. 

Lewis Thorpe...big guy, 6'4 280. He loves his scotch. Hell of a salesman. He once punch a bald eagle because it wasn't American enough. Big guy, 6'7 384 lbs! I once saw him eat a whole live chicken. His first words as a baby were "grab your clothes and beat it sweetheart!". Big s.o.b, 7-8' and 500 lbs! His colonoscopy tape got higher rating than How I Met Your Mother. To Lewis Thorpe! A 10' tall 2-ton son of a b---- that could eat a hammer and take a shotgun blast standing!

(I may have confused some of these stories with a big fella named Bill Brasky...)

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9 hours ago, jmlease1 said:

You can't run an actual team like a fantasy/video game. There are actually people involved and the human element impacts your actions in both the short and long term.

Yes, Colome is not coming back next year but he's been pitching well over his last 9 appearances until yesterday. A reliever is pitching well, has a bad outing and gets cut? Good luck signing anyone good to a 1-year deal next season.

We don't have a young SS ready to play in the majors so, who do we replace Simmons with, exactly? One of the retreads from AAA who also won't be part of the future?

Pineda is a contender to get re-signed next season and with his current relationship might be gotten for a reasonable price. They're going to need some veterans for the rotation, because betting on all rookies next season is a recipe for disaster. When healthy, he's a good pitcher. Cut him and he'll never wear a Twins uniform again.

Sorry to see that Thorpe looks like he's never going to put it together. Sounds like the shoulder is trash, and that's a shame. I had hopes for him, but he's never been able to put it together. Maybe he'll get healthy for one more go this year, but I expect he'll fall off the 40 man now. Too bad: he had talent. 

I am the last guy that wants to run a team like a fantasy/video game. I hate both and participate in neither. But many on this site do like to think that way, I agree.

One season signings already know that they are there for one season. Not news. I read MLBTradeRumors daily, and the Twins are not even close to some of the teams and the moves being made. All teams are quick to pull the trigger in those cases, and should, I think. I never liked Colome, and never liked the signing, and if it wasn't for him blowing so many games for the whole first half of the seaon, Berrios and Cruz would still be on the team. Those are the guys that the FO played fantasy/video games with. Our long term guys. The last nine outings for Colome before this doesn't make up for the whole half season, so saying "1 bad outing" is ignoring the total of his sad contribution to this team. As for these guys are human - I agree, and feel for all the teammates that had to suffer through Colome blowing game after game after game this year. 25 of them to one of Colome.

Polanco could easily move to short for the last 6 weeks, and we could have Miranda and his two hits a game on the team taking third and Arraez second, and it would make the team better for the coming season. Plus, Gordon should get some time there in the last 6 weeks. The FO already totally gave up on the season, so no need to not see what we have, and I don't mean the AAAA filler, but prospects running out of time and options.

I know many like Pineda, but I don't see a PED convicted out of shape vet that takes forever to throw the next pitch as an inspiration and mentor to younger pitchers. And he is probably out for the rest of the season anyway. I hope the FO learned to go for a better pitching staff than they went for this off season. I seriously doubt that other players would feel that the Twins are too quick to cut the chord. They all saw how long they kept giving Shoemaker and Happ opportunities - way longer than they deserved. 

The fans deserve better than inning's eaters. They deserve upgrades, from the farm, and from free agency and trades. Not lateral moves, but upgrades. Pineda will not be signed by a contender, but by a team that doesn't expect to win. You watch. If the Twins resign him, that is not a good direction.

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6 hours ago, 21bdp21 said:

I wonder how that would play out. Take the best player on the team and duplicate them across every position. How would that team do?

The best player would need to be someone who is willing to pitch in with the unglamorous jobs. I suspect our man Jorge would do just fine, with minimal internal arguments along the lines of "I'M not the clone who has to catch, YOU'RE the clone who has to catch."

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