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Refsnyder activated, Gordon demoted


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I guess if we still consider Gordon as “developing”…then it makes some sense to have him playing every day, something he hasn’t been doing. And he has been struggling pretty mightily at the plate for a while now, as well. I’m ok with it…but then again, I’m assuming this is about Gordon, and not Refsnyder.

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I suppose everyone is going to tell me I am a Pollyanna poster but I like this move.  I know Rob is 30 and technically past his prime but holy hotcakes Batman he is batting .321 with an 871 OPS at the MLB level right now. So it would be nice to find out if this is something that is somewhat sustainable or not because he could have a big roll to play on this team if it is.  He earned this shot by having a 318 average and 1.046 OPS in AAA.  

Look I like Gordon and want to see what he can do at the MLB level as well but he hasn't been hitting well recently so getting him some reps in AAA while we get another look at Refsnyder sounds like a good idea to me.  It certainly seems to have done Celestino and Rortvedt some good as they have found their bats there as well.

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I am more in favor of Refsynder as 4th OF than I am of Gordon at utility.  I think Arraez, Miranda, and now Martin are going to be ahead of Gordon by early next year - competition for reserve outfield is probably between Refsnyder, Celestino and Garlick, assuming AK goes to first base. 

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7 minutes ago, Dman said:

I suppose everyone is going to tell me I am a Pollyanna poster but I like this move...

Agreed. It's not about development or upside with Refsnyder, but he hasn't cooled off yet this year, nor has he done anything to suggest that he's not currently the Twins' best 4th-outfielder option.

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4 minutes ago, South Dakota Tom said:

I am more in favor of Refsynder as 4th OF than I am of Gordon at utility.  I think Arraez, Miranda, and now Martin are going to be ahead of Gordon by early next year - competition for reserve outfield is probably between Refsnyder, Celestino and Garlick, assuming AK goes to first base. 

Neither Arraez nor Miranda can play short so they’re not really in competition with Gordon, whose career will likely live and die by his ability to play shortstop for brief periods of time. 

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I agree with Brock with respect to Gordon. He's hit about .200 with no walks and no power for the last month so it might help him to go back to AAA and refine his stroke. I like his defensive versatility, but I think we need to find out whether he can play shortstop well enough to be the backup there. If he can, that gives the team the flexibility to move Polanco back to shortstop if we can't find the right free agent this winter or strike out on the free-agent market because the prices are too high. Gordon isn't going to get that chance in Minnesota. I'm hoping they're sending him to AAA with instructions that he should be playing shortstop on an almost daily basis so they can really evaluate his skills.

I also think that Refsnyder is worth a look. He hit well when he was in Minnesota earlier in the season so he does provide another option for 4th/5th outfielder/infield utility type guy. Again, we need to see what he can do at the plate so we know if his earlier performance was just an illusion or real. In that context, the move makes sense. This season is all about evaluating the current group of players and it seems to me that if we do this right this should help us evaluate these 2 guys. That then help us evaluate whether we want to keep them on the 40 man roster or sacrifice them, at least potentially, to protect some of our young pitchers.

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1 hour ago, Dman said:

 I know Rob is 30 and technically past his prime but holy hotcakes Batman he is batting .321 with an 871 OPS at the MLB level right now. So it would be nice to find out if this is something that is somewhat sustainable or not because he could have a big roll to play on this team if it is.  He earned this shot by having a 318 average and 1.046 OPS in AAA.  

 

Ironic I read this right after Smalley said on the pregame that he likes this kid. I rolled my eyes at him calling Refsnyder a kid.

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3 hours ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

Neither Arraez nor Miranda can play short so they’re not really in competition with Gordon, whose career will likely live and die by his ability to play shortstop for brief periods of time. 

But, I believe Martin can play short and he probably will be here at some point next year.

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16 minutes ago, beckmt said:

But, I believe Martin can play short and he probably will be here at some point next year.

Yes, but the ideal situation is the team wants him in a starting role and it’s a big disappointment if he isn’t starting. Gordon is unlikely to be a starter at any point unless he completely turns it around. They won’t be competing for the same roles unless something weird happens. 

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1 hour ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

Yes, but the ideal situation is the team wants him in a starting role and it’s a big disappointment if he isn’t starting. Gordon is unlikely to be a starter at any point unless he completely turns it around. They won’t be competing for the same roles unless something weird happens. 

my feeling is that either Martin or Polonco will be the starting shortshop.  May not be the best defense, but hopefully the Twins will average a lot of runs a game.  

I like the idea of a Martin, Arreaz, Polonco first three with the idea of running up pitch count and ruining opponents bullpen with starters hitting 100 pitches by the 5th inning.

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Let me start by saying that the Twins kept Refsnyder in St. Paul as long as they could. I don't think they wanted to send  Gordon down until they had exhausted all the rehab time. If they didn't recall Refsnyder, they would have to DFA him and most likely lose him. I think Refsnyder has played well enough to compete for a fourth/fifth OF job next year, but they'd have to keep him on a tight 40-man roster. 

The problem with Gordon as a utility guy is that his utility is two positions--second base and center field--and I'm not sure he's that much of a center fielder. The real problem is that Rocco (and I presume the FO) don't believe he is viable as a shortstop. If Gordon isn't an acceptable backup at short, his value isn't much. If I'm not mistaken, Arraez has played more major league innings at short than Gordon. 

I'd really like to see if Nick can handle the position, but if the Twins don't even try, I guess I believe that he's really not a viable option at short and with that he's really not a viable option on a healthy Twins team. I would love to see a guy come off the bench with enough speed to draw the other team's attention, but if Gordon is barely on the chart as either a shortstop or center fielder, it just doesn't make much sense to keep him around. 

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If this is about a quick reset at AAA I can squint and see the logic. There's really no reason Cave should be on this roster in August and September if they're trying to find ABs in the OF. Refsnyder is a nice story, but he's at 60ish ABs on the season. If it comes down to it, getting Gordon consistent playing time should take precedence over a 30 year old journeyman and a guy who looks washed. 

 

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Refsnyder retooled his swing and approach and is killing it. Justin Turner did the same thing as he aged. I cannot cry about SSS when all Refsnyder has done this year is rake. If you want Gordon to stay, and I don't mind at this point... it is Astudillo that should have gone down. Refsnyder needs to be in the lineup until he shows he shouldn't. Period. 

Plus, even though the song proclaims it, I'm betting Gordon isn't the man. But G Cinco may have a future....

 

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13 hours ago, Dman said:

I suppose everyone is going to tell me I am a Pollyanna poster but I like this move.  I know Rob is 30 and technically past his prime but holy hotcakes Batman he is batting .321 with an 871 OPS at the MLB level right now. So it would be nice to find out if this is something that is somewhat sustainable or not because he could have a big roll to play on this team if it is.  He earned this shot by having a 318 average and 1.046 OPS in AAA.  

Look I like Gordon and want to see what he can do at the MLB level as well but he hasn't been hitting well recently so getting him some reps in AAA while we get another look at Refsnyder sounds like a good idea to me.  It certainly seems to have done Celestino and Rortvedt some good as they have found their bats there as well.

For me, it's not that they activated Refsnyder.  That makes plenty of sense for the reasons you stated.  It's that they sent down Gordon when someone like Astudillo or Cave is still on the roster.  They know who they are.  They know that they're not part of the future of the franchise.  

Getting PAs at AAA is a valid point and not without merit.  I'm just past the point of carrying guys like Astudillo and Cave at the expense of younger players at this point.

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Anyone remember a guy named Nelson Crux?  While decline is inevitable, let's not get so carried away that a 30 yo has no future.  What do people want for god sake?  He has been great and he is the kind of athlete this team lacks and he is RH.  My question is can he sustain this elevated level of play.  We have a small sample size.  So, let's give him some playing time and get a larger sample size.  

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Who would you rather have picking splinters on the major league bench - Gordon or Cave? Gordon got sent down because he has options and wouldn't be  playing.

I don't think either of them make the 2022 40 man roster.

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