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Josh Donaldson Trade Options


5 minutes ago, Brandon said:

Donaldson has what 2 years on his contract?  so when you do an extension with Berrios and Buxton you backload the deal a little.  5 year 18,18,20,22,22 per season for both for example.  I hope the Twins will be able to increase payroll moving forward.  Maybe not next season but after that....

I like this idea too. The one caveat is that we may want to free up a spot for Jose Miranda if this year is for real. Maybe a combination of the two? Backloaded contracts for Berrios in Buxton, trade Donaldson, and use the Donaldson money For another good starting pitcher? I’m good with either scenario as long as we keep Berrios and Buxton.. I think that’s the critical piece.

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22 minutes ago, Brandon said:

Donaldson has what 2 years on his contract?  so when you do an extension with Berrios and Buxton you backload the deal a little.  5 year 18,18,20,22,22 per season for both for example.  I hope the Twins will be able to increase payroll moving forward.  Maybe not next season but after that....

I don’t think Buxton accepts that amount and I’m close to positive Berrios would laugh you out of the room upon seeing that offer.

I don’t see Berrios signing for less than 6/$125m. 

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17 minutes ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

I don’t think Buxton accepts that amount and I’m close to positive Berrios would laugh you out of the room upon seeing that offer.

I don’t see Berrios signing for less than 6/$125m. 

He'd laugh at 5/$100 but take 6/$125?

I'd offer 5/$110 with a 6th year option at $26 million with a $5 million buyout. So the contract is either 5/$115 or 6/$136.

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2 minutes ago, howeda7 said:

He'd laugh at 5/$100 but take 6/$125?

I'd offer 5/$110 with a 6th year option at $26 million with a $5 million buyout. So the contract is either 5/$115 or 6/$136.

What I listed was a minimum amount, not a maximum amount... and guaranteed $25m for a mid-30s pitching season is a big difference in money.

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Assuming Donaldson stays healthy and productive, I think, unfortunately for this premise, the time to actually trade him is next season. At that time, he's only owed a season and a half plus the POTENTIAL buyout. Even if the Twins end up having to still toss in some $, everyone is on the hook for less. The problem is, of course, banking on his performance and what if the Twins rebound in 2022 and are in contention? 

I just don't know if he's tradeable right now without the Twins tossing in about $20M or so. At that point, have they really gained anything? Or more to the point, did they get anything worthwhile back and does the $ savings provide enough relief that the trade actually helps?

But let's speak hypothetically about a trade. Because the Mets need help offensively, because they don't have a stud 3B, because they have $, because their ownership is trying to win AND make a statement AND trying to grab the headlines from the Yankees, a move to the Mets makes the most sense and you just try to get something useful back along with the $ relief. And let's not forget it's almost a foregone conclusion the NL will have the DH starting in 2022.

In regard to perception of the Twins, I see no downside. They were willing to pony up the big contract for Donaldson. They tanked 2021 and sent him to a contending team. There is no black eye there.

Arraez is OK at 3B, a few bad plays, a few good ones. He might even get better playing there almost daily. Hopefully, by September at least, Miranda gets his feet wet. Polanco plays 2B and maybe a little SS. Gordon continues to play some 2B as well as CF, (maybe LF??) but also sees time at SS. You HAVE to see what you have in him there. Cripes, he's spent over half his milb career there and several games/innings during ST. In this scenario, IMO, you KEEP Simmons. I'm just not sure there is a contending team that has a NEED at SS, barring injury, and you will need a SS in 2022. Keep him for now and re-examine the market next offseason. 

ALL hypothetical because I just don't know if Donaldson is tradeable right now...and that's NOT a shot at his play. But this really does seem to be the best trade potential outcome for all involved.

 

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I agree Doc.  The Twins are going nowhere this season but the Mets have HIGH hopes to not just win their division but to make a deep playoff run.  With the Yankees really struggling the time for the Mets to make a move is NOW (or at least VERY soon).  

In all this discussion of who to trade, I think the guy the Twins just CAN'T trade is Berrios.  No matter what they get back it won't be enough.  Last year when the Twins defended their division crown, there were several hitters who were "disappointing."  Sano, Kepler, Polanco were ALL key players who just didn't produce like they were expected to.  We won the division  because we pitched very well.  This year, we're hopeless because with the exception of Berrios and Rogers NOBODY has pitched well. (can we just be DONE with Shoemaker already!!).  The Twins need to keep Berrios and Rogers.  They are cornerstones in the rotation and BP.  Donaldson needs to be dealt.  Not sure what the Mets have in their system but I'd take a lesser package just to move Donaldson's contract.  Since the Twins seem to play 50% of their games without Byron Buxton, I would consider trading him if the package was a blockbuster.

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It does all boil down to the WANT of the Twins to resign Berrios and Buxton.

 

Moving Donaldson is a pure salary dump. The Twins either eat some of his contract in this season's budget or get little, very little, in return.

 

Quite frankly, they could eat some Donaldson salary if they move such names as Happ, Simmons, Colombe, Cruz...all who might bring back better prospects.

 

But it all revolves around Buxton and Berrios. If you aren't getting back those two, than the Twins are in total rebuild. Might as well clear the house and send Rogers, Robles packing, too.

And, you can always package Donaldson with a prospect or two that looks promising but is blocked by depth in the system. Wander Javier, for example, who is Rule 5 eligible but has a fat chance of being protected yet again by the Twins. Would Oakland look at that, with the hopes of moving Donaldson themselves during the offf-season.

You have to look at Donaldson NOT just being a third baseman, but also a DH for teams in need of that bat. He is expensive for this year and the next two, but he has the possibility of increasing his value. A gamble a team in the hunt might also take.

Either way, the Twins can't expect much.

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3 hours ago, Rosterman said:

It does all boil down to the WANT of the Twins to resign Berrios and Buxton.

Moving Donaldson is a pure salary dump. The Twins either eat some of his contract in this season's budget or get little, very little, in return.

Quite frankly, they could eat some Donaldson salary if they move such names as Happ, Simmons, Colombe, Cruz...all who might bring back better prospects.

But it all revolves around Buxton and Berrios. If you aren't getting back those two, than the Twins are in total rebuild. Might as well clear the house and send Rogers, Robles packing, too.

And, you can always package Donaldson with a prospect or two that looks promising but is blocked by depth in the system. Wander Javier, for example, who is Rule 5 eligible but has a fat chance of being protected yet again by the Twins. Would Oakland look at that, with the hopes of moving Donaldson themselves during the offf-season.

You have to look at Donaldson NOT just being a third baseman, but also a DH for teams in need of that bat. He is expensive for this year and the next two, but he has the possibility of increasing his value. A gamble a team in the hunt might also take.

Either way, the Twins can't expect much.

Even eating up to 50% of Donaldson's contract, I'd be shocked if the Twins got anything more than a high-ish upside low minors player in return. The return, if it helps the Twins, likely won't help for several years so that's not going to be the driving reason to trade Josh.

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On 6/30/2021 at 11:45 AM, Brock Beauchamp said:

I don’t think Buxton accepts that amount and I’m close to positive Berrios would laugh you out of the room upon seeing that offer.

I don’t see Berrios signing for less than 6/$125m. 

I probably should have been more clear I wasn't trying to say an amount of the contract only that they could take a few million less each on the front of the contract to offset some of the salary of Donaldson's last 2 years of his contract.

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On 6/30/2021 at 11:31 AM, LA VIkes Fan said:

I like this idea too. The one caveat is that we may want to free up a spot for Jose Miranda if this year is for real. Maybe a combination of the two? Backloaded contracts for Berrios in Buxton, trade Donaldson, and use the Donaldson money For another good starting pitcher? I’m good with either scenario as long as we keep Berrios and Buxton.. I think that’s the critical piece.

We could trade Sano.....  free up a few dollars and Let Donaldson and Killeroff get some time at 1B and DH on occasion.  I mean when healthy Donaldson is living up to his contract.

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As someone who was not in favor of signing JD, I’m now in a peculiar position where I suspect his value to the Twins is higher than we would get in trade.   Trade Simmons, Cruz snd consider offers for Berrios and Buxton, but I don’t think enough will be offered for Donaldson to make it worthwhile to trade his glove and his bat. 

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13 minutes ago, strumdatjag said:

As someone who was not in favor of signing JD, I’m now in a peculiar position where I suspect his value to the Twins is higher than we would get in trade.   Trade Simmons, Cruz snd consider offers for Berrios and Buxton, but I don’t think enough will be offered for Donaldson to make it worthwhile to trade his glove and his bat. 

If you trade those others, why keep JD? Also, the real value of trading him is freeing up payroll....

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1 hour ago, Mike Sixel said:

If you trade those others, why keep JD? Also, the real value of trading him is freeing up payroll....

Freeing up payroll sounds great if the money was spent on a player better than Donaldson. I am not sure that will be the case… He’s got 2.5 years $60 million left (including the $8 million buyout for his age 38 $16 MM club option). They might have to eat $20-30 million of it to get an interesting prospect back. Then we would have to find another 3B regardless. 

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12 hours ago, Vanimal46 said:

Freeing up payroll sounds great if the money was spent on a player better than Donaldson. I am not sure that will be the case… He’s got 2.5 years $60 million left (including the $8 million buyout for his age 38 $16 MM club option). They might have to eat $20-30 million of it to get an interesting prospect back. Then we would have to find another 3B regardless. 

At the same time....haven't we spent most of Donaldson's time as a Twin finding another 3B?

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12 hours ago, Vanimal46 said:

Freeing up payroll sounds great if the money was spent on a player better than Donaldson. I am not sure that will be the case… He’s got 2.5 years $60 million left (including the $8 million buyout for his age 38 $16 MM club option). They might have to eat $20-30 million of it to get an interesting prospect back. Then we would have to find another 3B regardless. 

That wasn't the point.....if you aren't going to compete next year (which is what the post I responded to basically said)....why would you keep JD around?

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3 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

That wasn't the point.....if you aren't going to compete next year (which is what the post I responded to basically said)....why would you keep JD around?

There are different levels of "not competing", it's not necessarily a binary choice. If you want to do a soft reload and try to stay relevant like Cleveland, you keep Donaldson rather than save $10 mil/yr or whatever. (Of course, any approach like that almost certainly requires we keep Berrios too.)

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27 minutes ago, TheLeviathan said:

At the same time....haven't we spent most of Donaldson's time as a Twin finding another 3B?

Not quite "most". He's been on the IL for 40 games out of 141 as a Twin, including postseason. Not great but that number should continue improving as he is apparently fine at the moment.

In fact, maybe he and the team have learned a bit how to better manage his health -- his two IL trips for us were both very early in the season, 30 games missed in early 2020 and 10 games missed at the beginning of 2021. He played in 155 games in 2019 so I don't get the impression he's necessarily one of those hopeless perpetual IL cases.

Edit to add: he's old enough that there is some risk he becomes that hopeless perpetual IL case, of course, but for $10/mil yr over the next 2-3 years (what was suggested we'd save by trading him), he's probably not a bad risk.

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30 minutes ago, Otto von Ballpark said:

There are different levels of "not competing", it's not necessarily a binary choice. If you want to do a soft reload and try to stay relevant like Cleveland, you keep Donaldson rather than save $10 mil/yr or whatever. (Of course, any approach like that almost certainly requires we keep Berrios too.)

Good point. I just don't see Donaldson as the difference maker a pitcher they can sign with his (and Cruz's and Pineda's) money would be. Or, a starter and a bullpen arm or two. Or whatever. But I get we can reasonably disagree on how far off they look (right now) for next year......I just don't see a realistic path to next year....

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According to Bleacher Report, the Mets are already asking about Donaldson.  If that is accurate, then the offer from the Mets might be significantly higher than what the posters in this thread are suggesting.  The new Mets' owner has money and a complete disregard for the luxury tax.  In my humble opinion, if he wants Donaldson, he will make a good offer.

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My guess? They'll shop Donaldson to see what's on offer. It won't happen. They'll keep shopping him on the hot stove if they give up on 2022. It's entirely possible they'll call this year a fluke and shop those with expiring contracts instead. That gives them a year beyond the pandemic to get the prospect assembly line up to speed. If they bet on the fluke and keep offense close to what it is, minus the one year drop ins, relying on prospects to come on up and play good ball, they'll spend their tradecraft on pitching, which this year is a disaster. I agree that building around Berrios and Buxton makes sense. The question is still whether Buck can stay on the field and whether he signs long term. When it comes to bargain basement FA pitchers, the Twins are snakebit. It's not rocket science. It's not a cure for cancer. Most of us were very happy when they signed Donaldson, though, and gave them credit for a job well done. 

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How can we think about building around Buxton & Berrios? Buxton can never stay healthy & Berrios is nothing more than a 3rd starter on a solid team.

 

The Twins had a dream of many years of contention when they signed JD. Who will be 36 this December and can't have much time left on the field if he can stay healthy as well. No reason to be paying 21 million for a DH for a couple of more seasons.

 

 

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3 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

Good point. I just don't see Donaldson as the difference maker a pitcher they can sign with his (and Cruz's and Pineda's) money would be. Or, a starter and a bullpen arm or two. Or whatever. But I get we can reasonably disagree on how far off they look (right now) for next year......I just don't see a realistic path to next year....

How is going into next year any different than going into this year? The outfield should be better next year with Kepler, Buxton, Kirilloff, Larnach, as of now not much depth in case of injuries, the infield should be close to this year, Healthy Donaldson, Polanco, Sano can't be worse can he? sign another vet to play SS or Simmons, you have Arraez and Gordon to back up. Need a plan for injuries which this FO never really seems to have. Catcher you have Garver and Jeffers, maybe sign a vet to back up, and have Garver, Arraez DH. Pitching you have Berrios, Maeda, and hope and fingers crossed, plus needed depth (same as this year, Pineda getting hurt is no surprise) and Basically Rogers, Duffey and Alcala, and ????

As for getting rid of Donaldson to dump salary, that just proves this FO is inept. Everybody knew Berrios and Buxton were coming do and if they signed Donaldson knowing it would stop them from signing either Berrios or Buxton, then what the heck were they thinking?

I have said it in other posts, they need to rebuild this staff on the fly and take advantage of the hitters they have now, and fill holes with players that don't strike out 30-40% of the time. The have a couple of pitchers that need to get up and give a chance to see where they might fit in next year and they have prospects to trade to try to pick up young controllable pitchers.

 

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13 minutes ago, darin617 said:

How can we think about building around Buxton & Berrios? Buxton can never stay healthy & Berrios is nothing more than a 3rd starter on a solid team.

 

The Twins had a dream of many years of contention when they signed JD. Who will be 36 this December and can't have much time left on the field if he can stay healthy as well. No reason to be paying 21 million for a DH for a couple of more seasons.

 

 

Everything you mentioned was known the day Donaldson signed, Buxton always hurt, Berrios not being a dominant starter and Donaldson's age. This goes more to show the FO is clueless.

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17 minutes ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

Everything you mentioned was known the day Donaldson signed, Buxton always hurt, Berrios not being a dominant starter and Donaldson's age. This goes more to show the FO is clueless.

I was happy when the Twins were pursuing JD. At least it showed they were willing to spend. Then I saw the terms of the deal and knew it would end up being a bad contract over the run of the contract. If they can get out of it that would be huge.

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2 hours ago, terrydactyls said:

According to Bleacher Report, the Mets are already asking about Donaldson.  If that is accurate, then the offer from the Mets might be significantly higher than what the posters in this thread are suggesting.  The new Mets' owner has money and a complete disregard for the luxury tax.  In my humble opinion, if he wants Donaldson, he will make a good offer.

You might be right, I wouldn't try to predict what the Mets are going to do at any given moment, on or off the field.

But what I think is more likely that the Mets will take on more of Donaldson's contract, not that they're eager to give away more prospects.

But really, who knows? Maybe.

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48 minutes ago, darin617 said:

I was happy when the Twins were pursuing JD. At least it showed they were willing to spend. Then I saw the terms of the deal and knew it would end up being a bad contract over the run of the contract. If they can get out of it that would be huge.

If the Twins are winning and Donaldson is playing well (which he is right now), I don't give a damn how much they spend on Donaldson.

But they ain't winning so Donaldson's on-field performance doesn't really matter all that much. Offload the contract if they can and opt for more flexibility in 2022 and 2023.

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