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Game Recap: Orioles 6, Twins 3


8 minutes ago, Dodecahedron said:

My opinion is if the Twins do not cut ties with Sano, something is wrong, and I would hope we can at least put a pause on the narrative that this front office is doing a good job.  Paying part of his salary to play for someone else should not be off the table.  Getting him off the team will be a plus.  Just like it's no surprise when Sano launches a pitch to the moon, it's also no surprise that there is often comical drama and inconsistency with him.  Let him go.  If no other team wants him, which is highly doubtful, this would only solidify the Twins mistake with keeping him around so long.

Plenty of other teams would take Sano at league minimum salary right now -- but the Twins don't have that option.

Cutting Sano right now, given the current state of our roster, should be off the table. Buxton and Kepler would both have to return and establish they are fully healthy to remotely justify it (sliding Kirilloff to first base), although by then other circumstances may change too (i.e. another injury, or a potential Cruz trade).

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2 hours ago, lukeduke1980 said:

I feel like Colome is George Costanza when he becomes Body Suit Man and tries various stunts to try to get fired from the Yankees.

"Holy Cow!"

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32 minutes ago, bighat said:

Can't hit with runners on base. Not only that, they can't even make contact.

I was curious, so I looked at some numbers.

Overall, the Twins have a 107 wRC+, 10th among MLB teams (not including pitchers). K% is 15th at 23.6%. BABIP is 22nd at .283. (League average is 23.6% K% and .289 BABIP)

With runners on base, we are still 10th with a 113 wRC+, although we fall to 23rd in K% (although the rate itself is virtually the same, 23.7%). Our BABIP climbs to 9th at .309. (League average is 107 wRC+, 22.4% K%, and .297 BABIP)

With runners in scoring position, we fall to 19th at 99 wRC+, and 23rd again with a 24.4% K%. Our BABIP in these situations is tied for 25th at .272. (League average is 105 wRC+, 23.0% K%, and .295 BABIP)

 

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40 minutes ago, spycake said:

Plenty of other teams would take Sano at league minimum salary right now -- but the Twins don't have that option.

Cutting Sano right now, given the current state of our roster, should be off the table. Buxton and Kepler would both have to return and establish they are fully healthy to remotely justify it (sliding Kirilloff to first base), although by then other circumstances may change too (i.e. another injury, or a potential Cruz trade).

Well, he is completely un-tradable.

What team in contention in their right mind would be thinking....

"We really need someone who can give away precious ABs in the post season....where can we find him and how many of our prospects can we give away for him!"

 

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23 minutes ago, D.C Twins said:

“We really need someone who can give away precious ABs in the post season”

That’s the catch. Sano can get on a couple of nice streaks during the season, but during the post-season, when pitchers are better and more focused on batter weaknesses, Sano becomes a liability.

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27 minutes ago, D.C Twins said:

Well, he is completely un-tradable.

What team in contention in their right mind would be thinking....

"We really need someone who can give away precious ABs in the post season....where can we find him and how many of our prospects can we give away for him!"

 

You would think that, but a lot of what moves at the trade deadline is not very exciting.  Dudes with power who are feast or famine move.  Defensive specialists move.  Solid but not fantastic relievers move.

Sure there are huge trades once in a while, but most are head scratchers.  There are teams who would consider Sano for a playoff push, unless of course owners are still in no-spend mode as they were during the offseason.  His talent is not being questioned by anybody, and managers always think they can turn people around.

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38 minutes ago, D.C Twins said:

Well, he is completely un-tradable.

What team in contention in their right mind would be thinking....

"We really need someone who can give away precious ABs in the post season....where can we find him and how many of our prospects can we give away for him!"

Sano's trade value is indeed negative at the moment. I was commenting on the willingness of other teams (and not just contending teams) to pick him up if the Twins were to release him. Although I could see some club giving us a marginal prospect if we'd eat cash in trade too, just to jump the line.

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The same team that gave up on David Ortiz is holding onto a guy (Sano) in hopes that he becomes the next David Ortiz..... Please cut ties with him now, it is not going to happen here. 15-20 games of superstar stats do not offset 120-140 games of K's and pop-outs.

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1 minute ago, mnfireman said:

The same team that gave up on David Ortiz is holding onto a guy (Sano) in hopes that he becomes the next David Ortiz..... Please cut ties with him now, it is not going to happen here. 15-20 games of superstar stats do not offset 120-140 games of K's and pop-outs.

Woah, hyperbole.  He's not good for just 20 games a year.  It's more like 25.  

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As I said in the reports as the game was being played, I can't seem to watch this team (and won't have to after yesterday unless they play Washington or on national TV (ha). What really got to me was when Larnich failed to just bunt to third where nobody was playing, after Cruz opening inning single and Dobnack throwing a meatball slider to Stewart then threw 2 great ones on the next 2 pitches to the next batter. I don't blame Rocco for all this- though his lineups seem strange to me because I disagree with them. I don't even blame Sano. This is a team meltdown- period. Why is it that other teams can take castoff relievers and make them stars (Cubs/Tampa) and we take decent pitchers and make them castoffs? It's tough to swallow. we are in the weakest division and may not even be able to finish second. Oh well. Wait til next year.

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1 hour ago, spycake said:

I was curious, so I looked at some numbers.

Overall, the Twins have a 107 wRC+, 10th among MLB teams (not including pitchers). K% is 15th at 23.6%. BABIP is 22nd at .283. (League average is 23.6% K% and .289 BABIP)

With runners on base, we are still 10th with a 113 wRC+, although we fall to 23rd in K% (although the rate itself is virtually the same, 23.7%). Our BABIP climbs to 9th at .309. (League average is 107 wRC+, 22.4% K%, and .297 BABIP)

With runners in scoring position, we fall to 19th at 99 wRC+, and 23rd again with a 24.4% K%. Our BABIP in these situations is tied for 25th at .272. (League average is 105 wRC+, 23.0% K%, and .295 BABIP)

 

appreciate the research....but too many numbers for me. The eye test says we 'k' far too many times....when it counts most. We fail to get runners home...when it counts most.  We have a couple hitters who strike out like their life depended on it. Thats not fun to watch. And our bullpen is still terrible.,

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33 minutes ago, mnfireman said:

The same team that gave up on David Ortiz is holding onto a guy (Sano) in hopes that he becomes the next David Ortiz..... Please cut ties with him now, it is not going to happen here. 15-20 games of superstar stats do not offset 120-140 games of K's and pop-outs.

Ortiz hit 15-20 homers, batted .270-.280 and struck out only about once every 6 at bats when with us. Sano can hit more home runs but bats below .230 and strikes out once every 3 times up. No comparison. Even Dave Kingman was better.

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Unfortunately, the Twins roster is more AAA than major league right now. The injury situation is awful. Hard to expect this team to win many games with so many key players injured, and the ones who aren't, not playing to expectations. Polanco seems to be battling. Donaldson has lost both power and consistency. Cruz is no longer driving the ball and his k count is increasing. Simmons and Sano are worthless at the plate. Kirilloff hasn't been the same since returning which makes one wonder if he may end up being shut down due to the wrist...which is affecting his swing. Garver was just coming around and poof....Arraez and Kepler are out. Buxton is always out. Our starting rotation is hurt.  Our bullpen is ineffective.

The team is being held together with bubblegum and duct tape. I don't see how we can expect much more from these guys until they get healthy....which may never happen. The O's lineup last 2 days was actually much better than ours, even with all their problems.

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51 minutes ago, spycake said:

Plenty of other teams would take Sano at league minimum salary right now -- but the Twins don't have that option.

Cutting Sano right now, given the current state of our roster, should be off the table. Buxton and Kepler would both have to return and establish they are fully healthy to remotely justify it (sliding Kirilloff to first base), although by then other circumstances may change too (i.e. another injury, or a potential Cruz trade).

I don't see any justifiable reason to cut Sano in a lost season and then potentially pay him to play elsewhere. The move should 100% be off the table. I don't know what his odds of being claimed are, but I'd imagine most teams would roll the dice on getting him for the minimum rather than commit to taking on his salary.

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4 hours ago, spycake said:

 

With runners on base, we are still 10th with a 113 wRC+, although we fall to 23rd in K% (although the rate itself is virtually the same, 23.7%). Our BABIP climbs to 9th at .309. (League average is 107 wRC+, 22.4% K%, and .297 BABIP)

 

 

Thanks for the research.

Regarding the above: 9th in BABIP doesn't count for much if you're 23rd in K% - the Twins aren't putting the ball in play enough for that BABIP ranking to make a difference. Am I correct in assuming that?

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45 minutes ago, bighat said:

Thanks for the research.

Regarding the above: 9th in BABIP doesn't count for much if you're 23rd in K% - the Twins aren't putting the ball in play enough for that BABIP ranking to make a difference. Am I correct in assuming that?

Yes, that sounds about right. The higher K% reduces the benefit of a higher BABIP.

And on the other splits, the high K% and low BABIP are kind of a double-whammy.

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The Twins aren't going to trade or release Sano. Unfortunately his salary has them with their hands tied. Yes, I'd like to see him given his out-right release. He's a rally killer. The least Rocco could do is move him to 8th or 9th in the lineup if he has to play him. Then when the game is on the line and his spot comes up consider having a Pitcher hit for him. They at least might be able to lay down a bunt and keep the inning alive.

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