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The Baldelli narratives need to die


4 hours ago, USAFChief said:

Maeda had been on the IL for 3 weeks, and had only one rehab start of less than 60 pitches, IIRC. 76 pitches in 4 IP was enough last night.

 

There are things to question Baldelli about over staff usage, but I dont think last night is unreasonable. 

So the next guy comes in and essentially loses the game. Who came up with 76 pitches? Did anyone bother asking "Hey how do you feel?" Can you at least start the 5th inning? Being a starting pitcher in MLB is the best job in all of sports. Basically be paid multi 9 figures to sit on your backside 99.9% of the time and be treated like a rare piece of pottery.

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24 minutes ago, Number3 said:

So the next guy comes in and essentially loses the game. Who came up with 76 pitches? Did anyone bother asking "Hey how do you feel?" Can you at least start the 5th inning? Being a starting pitcher in MLB is the best job in all of sports. Basically be paid multi 9 figures to sit on your backside 99.9% of the time and be treated like a rare piece of pottery.

Yep.  With the bullpen in its current state, let Maeda stretch it out a bit more in the minors first.  With Buxton, you get him back and get him in the lineup once he can play.  With Maeda, you get him back when he can go deep into a game.

The Twins handled these two situations completely backwards.  

The Bold And The Beautiful Welcome To Bizarro World GIF by CBS

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Had to respond to this post before it leaves the site.  First, kudos to cHawk for some very provocative columns lately!  Now that the death sentence to the 2021 Twins' playoff chances has been proclaimed, I think it makes all of us feel better to unload our frustrations and deep disappointments over this team's shocking collapse.  It is certainly time to begin to assign blame and Rocco should be right in the bullseye.  Molitor won MOY award; the next year he was axed.  Baldelli is fair game for criticism.   Someone must take the fall - and that someone is generally the manager.   This is baseball and if the team falls far below perceived talent levels, the manager is on the hot seat.  Firing Rocco might seem like the coward's way out, but  under a new,  old-school  manager like TK, Showalter, Scioscia, such a change  would likely give a jolt to the team, at the very least, and put everyone else on notice that lackadaisical play is unacceptable.  This abrupt change in midseason  would also give the FO a more time this year to see which direction to take before the trade deadline and the offseason.

After all, the big question now is whether to retool or rebuild.  Bringing in a new manager now can only help in this decision.  Yes, I would give this FO one more offseason to see if they have what it takes to retool on the fly and get this team back in contention.  If they fail again, then it is clear the emperor had no clothes.  I can only add that ownership must not give this FO any more excuses.  Open up the wallet, sign Berrios and Buxton and acquire some real talent this time in the offseason.  Oh, and Jim, it wouldn't hurt for once for you to proclaim your sole goal for this franchise is to bring home a WS trophy,  This organization is sorely in need of strong leadership!!

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1 hour ago, Dodecahedron said:

Yep.  With the bullpen in its current state, let Maeda stretch it out a bit more in the minors first.  With Buxton, you get him back and get him in the lineup once he can play.  With Maeda, you get him back when he can go deep into a game.

The Twins handled these two situations completely backwards.  

The Bold And The Beautiful Welcome To Bizarro World GIF by CBS

Except Buxton plays every day and Maeda plays once every five.  Two different situations.  It sounds like Buxton still has some residual issues whereas Maeda does not.  You're asking for, what, another three or four starts in the minors to stretch him out?  That very premise is what fans are so irritated about Buxton not being up with the big league club.

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16 minutes ago, wsnydes said:

Except Buxton plays every day and Maeda plays once every five.  Two different situations.  It sounds like Buxton still has some residual issues whereas Maeda does not.  You're asking for, what, another three or four starts in the minors to stretch him out?  That very premise is what fans are so irritated about Buxton not being up with the big league club.

If Buxton is playing every day in St. Paul, what is the difference if he plays every day in Minneapolis?  As I said elsewhere, the difference is the games in St. Paul mean nothing to Buxton's career.  That's the difference.  There is literally no good reason to have him playing across the river.  If Buxton is "sore" -- he will be "sore" regardless of which side of the river he plays baseball on.  If he is too sore to play, which he isn't as he is playing, then that's different.

For Maeda, why would he need another month to month and a half to get stretched out?  One or two starts should do it, he does not need to be completely stretched out in the minors, he just needs to be on the trajectory.  The Twins need pitchers who can eat up innings to keep the ball out of the hands of the clown college in the bullpen.

The Buxton and Maeda situations are completely different.

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1 hour ago, Dodecahedron said:

If Buxton is playing every day in St. Paul, what is the difference if he plays every day in Minneapolis?  As I said elsewhere, the difference is the games in St. Paul mean nothing to Buxton's career.  That's the difference.  There is literally no good reason to have him playing across the river.  If Buxton is "sore" -- he will be "sore" regardless of which side of the river he plays baseball on.  If he is too sore to play, which he isn't as he is playing, then that's different.

For Maeda, why would he need another month to month and a half to get stretched out?  One or two starts should do it, he does not need to be completely stretched out in the minors, he just needs to be on the trajectory.  The Twins need pitchers who can eat up innings to keep the ball out of the hands of the clown college in the bullpen.

The Buxton and Maeda situations are completely different.

I agree the two situations are different, which is what I stated.  You stated that they did it backwards, which I don't agree with.  Buxton is still hurt apparently.  While he was playing every day, he DH'd the first few games.  

For Maeda, you wanted to stretch him out, so I was wondering what that meant to you.  And now I know.

Why can't Maeda get stretched out with the big league club?  What's another game or two up here?  The season isn't hanging in the balance.  And given that Pineda just went on the IL, they needed a starting pitcher.  What's the difference if Thorpe goes 4 innings or Maeda goes 4 innings?  It's the same burden on the bullpen.

I just find it odd that you want the healthy guy in the minors, yet the guy that's still hurt to be brought up.  The situations are different, but I don't see what they're doing as unreasonable given the context.

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35 minutes ago, wsnydes said:

I agree the two situations are different, which is what I stated.  You stated that they did it backwards, which I don't agree with.  Buxton is still hurt apparently.  While he was playing every day, he DH'd the first few games.  

For Maeda, you wanted to stretch him out, so I was wondering what that meant to you.  And now I know.

Why can't Maeda get stretched out with the big league club?  What's another game or two up here?  The season isn't hanging in the balance.  And given that Pineda just went on the IL, they needed a starting pitcher.  What's the difference if Thorpe goes 4 innings or Maeda goes 4 innings?  It's the same burden on the bullpen.

I just find it odd that you want the healthy guy in the minors, yet the guy that's still hurt to be brought up.  The situations are different, but I don't see what they're doing as unreasonable given the context.

Leaning on the bullpen in St. Paul does not mean anything.  Heck, it's good.  It gives people work, no one starts playing professional baseball to top out in AAA.  The situation is different in Minneapolis, where the team has no choice* but to lean on bullpen arms that should not be there.  

*Yes of course the team has a choice, they can cut/sign/trade, but they are choosing not to make moves at this time.  One consequence of that choice is Maeda and others need to be able to have some stamina.

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11 minutes ago, Dodecahedron said:

Leaning on the bullpen in St. Paul does not mean anything.  Heck, it's good.  It gives people work, no one starts playing professional baseball to top out in AAA.  The situation is different in Minneapolis, where the team has no choice* but to lean on bullpen arms that should not be there.  

*Yes of course the team has a choice, they can cut/sign/trade, but they are choosing not to make moves at this time.  One consequence of that choice is Maeda and others need to be able to have some stamina.

Valid points, and I don't disagree, but the Twins still needed a pitcher when Pineda went on the IL.  In that context, it only makes sense to activate Maeda.  None of the minor league starters would likely go deeper.  The bullpen would be taxed either way.  Clearly the FO, and I agree, that Maeda was more likely to go deeper than any of the options available in AAA.

It's entirely possible that had Pineda not gotten hurt, that they would have allowed Maeda another start or two in StP, but their hand was forced to activate him because of it.

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1 hour ago, wsnydes said:

I agree the two situations are different, which is what I stated.  You stated that they did it backwards, which I don't agree with.  Buxton is still hurt apparently.  While he was playing every day, he DH'd the first few games.  

For Maeda, you wanted to stretch him out, so I was wondering what that meant to you.  And now I know.

Why can't Maeda get stretched out with the big league club?  What's another game or two up here?  The season isn't hanging in the balance.  And given that Pineda just went on the IL, they needed a starting pitcher.  What's the difference if Thorpe goes 4 innings or Maeda goes 4 innings?  It's the same burden on the bullpen.

I just find it odd that you want the healthy guy in the minors, yet the guy that's still hurt to be brought up.  The situations are different, but I don't see what they're doing as unreasonable given the context.

Frankly if he is still INJURED, he shouldn't be playing at all...AT ALL.  If it is aches and pains as part of the recovery from the injury... he should be in Seattle, at least as a DH(Cruz can play 1B or rest for a few days).  This happens all the time.

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5 minutes ago, lecroy24fan said:

Well Maeda was announced as starting before Pineda got hurt.

I believe the announcement for Maeda came after the game Sunday.  Pineda left Sunday's game early due to injury.  He wasn't put on the IL until Monday.

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10 hours ago, USAFChief said:

Maeda had been on the IL for 3 weeks, and had only one rehab start of less than 60 pitches, IIRC. 76 pitches in 4 IP was enough last night.

 

There are things to question Baldelli about over staff usage, but I dont think last night is unreasonable. 

Very similar to the Buxton issue. There are those who feel Buxton should not have gone through a ramp-up rehab assignment but rather just be put on the major league roster and go 100% after a month off. It would be equally unreasonbale to advocate for shifting Buxton directly from idling to high gear.

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8 hours ago, lecroy24fan said:

It was made on Saturday.

Fair enough, I hadn't heard anything until Sunday.

And in fairness, I was able to find mentions that it was expected as early as Friday night.

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18 hours ago, Number3 said:

So the next guy comes in and essentially loses the game. Who came up with 76 pitches? Did anyone bother asking "Hey how do you feel?" Can you at least start the 5th inning? Being a starting pitcher in MLB is the best job in all of sports. Basically be paid multi 9 figures to sit on your backside 99.9% of the time and be treated like a rare piece of pottery.

Are you suggesting that no one asked Maeda how he felt after four innings? Just because they didn't mic up Rocco or Wes during the game for a TV interview with Maeda doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Particularly coming back from an injury, I'm actually assuming they were checking with him after every inning, including the first. 

 

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So next time out maybe Maeda will get 77 pitches. Mean while 10-0 last night and on to another unheard of starter. So far the only thing the Twins have done on the winning side is avoid being swept. Can they keep the no sweep streak alive? Almost like the playoffs.

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Yes they did. This team refuses to be swept. And pulled the starter after 4 innings and less than 70 pitches. I am beginning to think that Baldelli doesn't want his starters to get credit for a victory except for Berrios. A .333 winning % is fine, just don't get swept.

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People, lets face it. The pitching staff Rocco has been handed will make anyone look "stupid". Give me the bullpen that Kansas City had in their World Series' years and you would think I am a genius; a pitching savant. I would agree that Rocco has not had a good season but he was smart last year and he will be again next year.  I have always thought Tom Kelly was our best manager; hands down. I believe he was the MVP of the 1991 World Series. He was a chess master at the height of his game. But give TK this squad and maybe he wins 2 or 3 more games. You simply can't manage around a 5+ ERA.

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The front office Wes Johnson and Baldelli seem to have a plan in regards to pitching. Seems to be centered around the fact a huge portion of their stagg threw 0 official innings last year, or guys like Maeds hew three 1/3 of their normal innings. The problem has been the bullpen and inability to support the starting staff. This plan will be graded next year and possibly later this year if the Twins' arms stay healthy and teams not planning for the innings increase have injuries.

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Best Twins Managers; Tom Kelly, Billy Martin and Gene March. None of them would put up with the lackadaisical play of this collection of Twins. Not running out balls.  Carrying the bat to first base. Catchers down on one knee with a runner on third base resulting in failure to block balls in the dirt. And on and on. I’ve been to Twins (Baldelli’s) spring trading camp and then to the Red Sox camp. As different as night and day. His handling of pitchers is a joke. Winning is a low priority to him. He should be fired.

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58 minutes ago, Mike Connell said:

Best Twins Managers; Tom Kelly, Billy Martin and Gene March. None of them would put up with the lackadaisical play of this collection of Twins. Not running out balls.  Carrying the bat to first base. Catchers down on one knee with a runner on third base resulting in failure to block balls in the dirt. And on and on. I’ve been to Twins (Baldelli’s) spring trading camp and then to the Red Sox camp. As different as night and day. His handling of pitchers is a joke. Winning is a low priority to him. He should be fired.

Gene Mauch? Really?

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