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The Twins Should Make Alex Kirilloff the Opening Day Left Fielder


Alex Kirilloff is 23 years old. He’s not a phenom who threatens to hit free agency at 27 and cash in beyond the Twins’ means. If he has a good spring training, he should be on the Opening Day roster.If Minnesota’s front office manipulates Kirilloff’s service time by having him open the year in St. Paul, the year of team control they will gain over their former first-round pick is 2027. That year, Kirilloff will be 29 years old. The chances that Kirilloff will be a valuable player at that age are quite slim, and if he will be, the team will have plenty of time to offer him a contract extension that renders his service time moot.

 

Let me defend that assertion — that it’s unlikely Kirilloff will be good enough in 2027 to sweat over this decision now — a bit, because it might seem shocking. It’s true, though, and not just because of the inherent uncertainty associated with players who have yet to prove they can hit big-league pitching over a full season. In today’s game, it’s rare to find a player with Kirilloff’s profile thriving past their mid-20s.

 

I used Stathead, from Baseball Reference, to find the number of players in each season of baseball history who met the following criteria:

  • Batted left-handed
  • Played primarily in a corner outfield spot
  • Qualified for the batting title
  • Had an OPS+ of at least 115
  • Were 29 years old or older
Since the most recent expansion in 1998, there have been some clear trends. From 1998-2002, there were 29 such player-seasons, or about six per year. From 2003-07, there were 25 such player seasons, averaging five per year. From 2008-12, after the league began testing not only for steroids and human growth hormone but for amphetamines (and as the PITCHf/x Era changed the batter-pitcher interaction forever), the number fell to 19, an average of just under four per season.

 

Since 2013, there have been just 18 player-seasons meeting the criteria above, an average of a bit over two per year. Only Arizona’s Kole Calhoun met these criteria in 2020. Only Charlie Blackmon and Michael Brantley did so in 2019. Brantley is the only guy to make the list in two separate seasons since Andre Ethier, who managed it in 2011 and 2012. That underscores the unpredictability here; even guys who ostensibly attain and cling to a solid everyday job through 29 rarely produce consistently thereafter. For more evidence of that, note the non-tenders of Kyle Schwarber (28 next month) and Eddie Rosario (29) this winter, and the tepid market for the services of Joc Pederson, also 29.

 

There are many reasons for this, going beyond the ones to which I alluded already. Defensive shifts disproportionately affect the production of this type of player. Accelerating and changing trends in pitcher usage have made it a younger man’s game all the time. So, too, have impressive advancements in the realm of player development. There’s even the fact that, as hitters seek to lift the ball more often, outfield defense has incrementally increased in importance, leading to a stronger preference for young, fresh legs in the corner spots than the industry has had in decades.

 

If Kirilloff is able to overcome these odds and become such a hitter, obviously, he’s more valuable than ever. By the time he’s even 25 or 26, though, it should be obvious whether or not he has that potential. That’s when the Twins could approach him with a contract extension, and benefit from the goodwill they would engender by giving him a job on Opening Day. The talk of the baseball world is the contract to which the Padres just signed Fernando Tatís, Jr., but not enough attention has been paid to the fact that San Diego set the stage for the deal two years ago.

 

They installed Tatís, then 20, as their Opening Day shortstop in 2019, even though it cost them control of his age-27 season in 2025. Once he proved to be a superstar in the making, they were happy to shell out huge dollars to keep him (more or less) forever. The Twins wouldn’t even need to go to the same lengths for Kirilloff, for the reasons I explore above.

 

In fact, I’m not even in favor of the remedy to this dilemma some have suggested, which is extending Kirilloff now. Actuarially (as we have seen), he’s unlikely to be worth much in the latter, most expensive seasons of such a deal. If he and his representatives were willing to consider a deal that reshaped his earning curve, getting him higher salaries sooner but selling his arbitration-eligible seasons at a below-market price, and if the Twins could get multiple team options at the end of the deal, it would be worth their while, but otherwise, they should just skip the manipulation, press pause on any contract considerations, and install him in the majors right away.

 

To close, let me acknowledge one truth, and stress two others. First, the acknowledgement: Kirilloff has never played in Triple A, and only has limited time in Double A. Because of that, there is some case to be made that having him open the season in St. Paul wouldn’t be manipulating his service time, but rather, the natural choice for a player with his experience. I understand that line of thinking, but reject it. This is 2021. We all know why he didn’t get the reps he’d normally have gotten at the upper levels of the minors in 2020.

 

We all also know that that justification crumbles the moment the team calls him up in early May, because really, what difference does one month make? What is Kirilloff likely to learn over such a span? Moreover, and here’s the first fact I want to stress and reiterate: Kirilloff is 23. He’s only still waiting to crack the roster because last season was truncated, and because of injury issues earlier in his professional career. If he’s going to be anywhere near as good as the Twins hope he will be, he needs to hurry up and do it. The Twins also need to be able to evaluate him against big-league pitching right away. A month of at-bats in St. Paul proves nothing. A month of at-bats in Minneapolis lets the team start deciding how important Trevor Larnach is to their future, whether Luis Arraez is likely to be needed often in left field, and how they should construct their lineup on a day-to-day basis to maximize its output.

 

The other thing I want to emphasize is that this is all predicated on Kirilloff having a strong spring training. The indications that he is or isn’t ready for the majors, for which some would have the team look only once he lands in St. Paul, will be noticeable before the end of Grapefruit League play. They won’t place any value on his stats in exhibition games, of course, but they should and will be able to assess his readiness based on data they collect there, the expert judgment of coaches and scouts, and conversations with the player himself.

 

Since we can’t know whether Kirilloff will have that kind of impressive camp or not, one could argue that the conversation should be put off for a few weeks. I disagree. To get this narrative right, and to shape the argument properly, we need to premeditate upon and look at these threads of argument now. Once one does so, it becomes easier to respond in an informed way if the facts on the ground change. Barring something unforeseen, I’m confident in my belief that Kirilloff belongs on Minnesota’s Opening Day roster.

 

This article first went out Sunday morning, as a piece for subscribers to my email newsletter, Penning Bull. If you're interested in that newsletter, which costs $11.11 per year and covers the whole league, you can find out more and sign up at penningbull.com.

 

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If Scott Boras wasn't his agent, then I'd agree.  There is no chance of a reasonable extension with Boras, so take the extra year of control while you can get it.  I don't like the service time manipulation, but it's within the rules.  As a mid-market team, the Twins need to take advantage of any opportunity for player control they can get.

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If everyone is healthy coming out of spring training Kirilloff should be sent to ST Paul. If there is an injury and Arreaz needs to be in the starting lineup elsewhere Kirilloff should be considered.

 

Early on you want to get Rooker at bats and Arreaz playing time why not spend the few weeks and see what you have in those two along with getting Kirilloff everyday at bats at AAA, where he hasn’t played yet.

I want to see Kirilloff Larnach and Lewis as much as anyone but with a lost last season and the CBA as it is some time in the minors while do some good.

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Alex Kirilloff is 23 years old. He’s not a phenom who threatens to hit free agency at 27 and cash in beyond the Twins’ means. If he has a good spring training, he should be on the Opening Day roster.If Minnesota’s front office manipulates Kirilloff’s service time by having him open the year in St. Paul, the year of team control they will gain over their former first-round pick is 2027. That year, Kirilloff will be 29 years old. The chances that Kirilloff will be a valuable player at that age are quite slim, and if he will be, the team will have plenty of time to offer him a contract extension that renders his service time moot.
 

 

I quit reading when I reached the bolded text. This is a ridiculous statement. Your suggestion is that this player is likely to be far more valuable in their rookie season as compared to their last year of arbitration. Furthermore, you are suggesting that 3 weeks of Kirilloff at the start of the season is more valuable than his age 29 season. 

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Would be interesting to see what taking corner OF out of the data set requirements does. There's already talk of him taking over at 1B for Sano, let alone his being able to DH as he ages. Would also be interesting to see the number of players who fit the criteria before their age 29 season. What's the drop off? Are there fifty 28 year old lefty hitting corner OFers OPS+ing 115+ and it drops to a handful at 29, or is it going from 10 guys to 4? And how much is the drop in their OPS+? Are the 28 year olds who fall to under 115 OPS+ at 29 typically 117 OPS+ players who drop to 114, or are we talking guys going from 140 to 100? Lots of questions need to be looked at in that data set.

 

I want the best players on the field for the Twins as often as possible, but it would be irresponsible team building to not sacrifice a few weeks this year for his entire age 29 season. Even if he's declining then, as you seem to suggest he will be, you still ensure he spends his entire prime with the team and let him walk once you suggest he is simply league average-ish, or worse.

 

MMMordabito also brought up the fact of Boras being his agent. There is no extending Boras clients before they reach free agency. So, unless you think he'll change his representation before he hits free agency, thinking Boras will suddenly do something he has refused to do with any of his other clients seems like bad team management as well. The Tatis comparison just doesn't hold up there.

 

So, while I agree it'd be ideal to have him up on opening day if he's the best player available, none of the arguments made here sway me on sacrificing his age 29 season for 18 days, or whatever it is, of his 2021 season.

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No question.

 

It’s just silly for anyone to say he’s ready to start a playoff game against the Astros, but he’s not ready to play opening day.

 

When he inevitably starts in the minors, I don’t want to hear that line. If the FO can’t be honest and take the heat for the service time manipulation, then don’t do it.

 

What are we saving that service time for? Is the net present value of that hypothetical year down the road really more valuable than a full season of him when you know he’s in his physical prime? Has that actually paid off for a team in terms of it being the difference for a championship? I say no to both.

 

You’ve set this team up to try and win something meaningful now. Who’s to say you’ll be competitive during that one hypothetical year down the road, or that Kirilloff will be healthy or any better then than he is today? How does it make sense to sacrifice a year in which you’re legitimately trying to win a World Series, for a year that you hope to be contending for a World Series years down the road? Especially when your division rival is set up much better than you going into the future.

 

What if you miss home field advantage, lose the division, or even miss the playoffs by one game and he would’ve made the difference, since we’re dealing in hypotheticals?

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I'll need to see his spring to really say for sure how i would proceed, but right now they have Cave, Arraez and Rooker to pencil in at Left field.  The Twins might want to straighten that out before putting Kirilloff there because then you have one less place to play Arraez to start the season and probably need to trade Cave and then there isn't much room for Rooker who looked like he might be good as well.

 

This isn't your typical case of Kirilloff is the best and only option to start the year in MLB.  The Twins have a lot of options they will have to choose which way they want to go but it looks like it lines up with Kirilloff at AAA to me.

 

If Kirilloff performs really, really well this spring that could change how the Twins feel about Cave and maybe they can rotate Arraez into the infield and left field to make room for his bat but that would pretty much leave Rooker out of the picture unless there is an injury or they decide to platoon him with Kepler.  Lot's of ifs. I think they punt and leave Kirilloff at AAA until they see how guys are playing or they have a greater need due to injury.

 

I get that Boras helps his clients get maybe more than they deserve sometimes but his unwillingness to extend clients hurts his clients in the end because then teams are pretty much forced to use what ever measures they can to retain control longer.  If he extended when it made sense he wouldn't have that kind of problem but since he never does his players are most always going to have to play seven years until becoming FA's.  At least until they change the service time rules.

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I'll need to see his spring to really say for sure how i would proceed, but right now they have Cave, Arraez and Rooker to pencil in at Left field. The Twins might want to straighten that out before putting Kirilloff there because then you have one less place to play Arraez to start the season and probably need to trade Cave and then there isn't much room for Rooker who looked like he might be good as well.

 

This isn't your typical case of Kirilloff is the best and only option to start the year in MLB. The Twins have a lot of options they will have to choose which way they want to go but it looks like it lines up with Kirilloff at AAA to me.

 

If Kirilloff performs really, really well this spring that could change how the Twins feel about Cave and maybe they can rotate Arraez into the infield and left field to make room for his bat but that would pretty much leave Rooker out of the picture unless there is an injury or they decide to platoon him with Kepler. Lot's of ifs. I think they punt and leave Kirilloff at AAA until they see how guys are playing or they have a greater need due to injury.

 

I get that Boras helps his clients get maybe more than they deserve sometimes but his unwillingness to extend clients hurts his clients in the end because then teams are pretty much forced to use what ever measures they can to retain control longer. If he extended when it made sense he wouldn't have that kind of problem but since he never does his players are most always going to have to play seven years until becoming FA's. At least until they change the service time rules.

I can buy an open competition between Rooker and Kirilloff, maybe.

 

But, not wanting to lose Cave shouldnt be a rationale to keep one of the best hitting prospects in the league in the minors.

 

Also, people overvalue Arraez. His OPS was .765 last year with a .320 batting average. Is he going to continue hit .320 every year? He’s also never been a regular outfielder, isn’t fast, doesn’t have much of an arm, etc. A poor fielding utility man who can’t hit for power should not be blocking one of the elite hitting prospects in the game.

 

And why is the player’s agent the bad guy for wanting to make his client more money vs. the billionaire wanting to avoid paying market rate to save a few million?

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No question.

It’s just silly for anyone to say he’s ready to start a playoff game against the Astros, but he’s not ready to play opening day.
 

 

What I find silly is to base his readiness on that they started him in a playoff game. The only thing that indicates is that they did not have a better option on that given day. It certainly does not prove he is the best option on opening day. What's really silly is that we have several years of Milb data but not a single person who is calling for Kirilloff to start opening day is willing to make a case based on his Milb performance.

 

Prove your case with his numbers. Shows us other corner OFers who were promoted to the ML level with similar AA numbers and no AAA experience. 

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I can buy an open competition between Rooker and Kirilloff, maybe.

But, not wanting to lose Cave shouldnt be a rationale to keep one of the best hitting prospects in the league in the minors.

Also, people overvalue Arraez. His OPS was .765 last year with a .320 batting average. Is he going to continue hit .320 every year? He’s also never been a regular outfielder, isn’t fast, doesn’t have much of an arm, etc. A poor fielding utility man who can’t hit for power should not be blocking one of the elite hitting prospects in the game.

And why is the player’s agent the bad guy for wanting to make his client more money vs. the billionaire wanting to avoid paying market rate to save a few million?

 

You have a good case there and i don't totally disagree, but we don't know how Kirilloff will perform right away in MLB.  Jake Cave had essentially an 800 OPS in 2018 and 2019 what if this is his breakout year and he is ready to be even better?  Rooker had a 900 OPS in a SSS last year it would be tough for Kirilloff to improve on that number.  Like you said Kirilloff might be better than both of those players but he might be no better or worse too.  We don't know yet.  That is why each player is a possibility IMO. Do I believe Kirilloff will be better eventually, yes I do.  Can I see the Twins starting with guys with MLB experience yes I can see that too.

 

Like you I think they move on from Cave for a few reasons. One there is no room for him especially after this year. Two his service time will be arb'd soon and they have a ready replacement who can be just as good and likely better for less money the next three years. Three I think he is tradable.  However, that doesn't preclude them from using him to start the season and fill in if injurie's happen for this year.

 

I agree with you on Arraez but most things I am reading seem to point to the Twins feeling that is a place they can and will play him on occasion. They promised him at bats and he can only spell Polanco so often.  If they want him to play and it seems they do he needs to be in Left field some days.

 

I never said the Agent was the bad guy I mentioned his strategy leads to teams doing what they do.  The players generally get the short end especially when it comes to service time I am just pointing out what I believe to be a flaw in his strategy for the players he reps.

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What I find silly is to base his readiness on that they started him in a playoff game. The only thing that indicates is that they did not have a better option on that given day. It certainly does not prove he is the best option on opening day. What's really silly is that we have several years of Milb data but not a single person who is calling for Kirilloff to start opening day is willing to make a case based on his Milb performance.

 

Prove your case with his numbers. Shows us other corner OFers who were promoted to the ML level with similar AA numbers and no AAA experience.

You prove your case with numbers. I can play that game. Show me a statical analysis that a team benefits on average in terms of wins and losses when they manipulate the service time of a 23 year old to gain his 29 year old season.

 

You’re trying to tell me that the front office didn’t feel he was ready for the majors, but started him in a playoff game? You think your analysis of that situation makes more sense? Were they throwing the game? You think the cupboard is so bare, despite hearing about the outfield logjam for years that they’re starting overmatched prospects in the ALDS?

 

That’s quite the indictment of the FOs competence and roster management.

 

Did Kirilloff look overmatched to you? Prove your case statistically that he’s not ready.

 

What’s silly is trying to place the burden of proof via statistics on the guy who thinks the 23 year top prospect should be playing. How many top hitting prospects failed miserably at 23, but were world beaters at 24-29? Show me those statistics.

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And why is the player’s agent the bad guy for wanting to make his client more money vs. the billionaire wanting to avoid paying market rate to save a few million?

 

Boras isn't a bad guy for wanting to make his client more money, and the billionaires are more likely the bad guys.

 

However, the CBA does exist, the Twins are a mid-market team and Boras has shown he will advise his clients to wait until free agency to do deals.

 

The question here is will three weeks of Kirilloff in 2021 be more valuable than a full season of Kirilloff when he's 29.

 

Will his absence from the lineup in April 2021 have more detriment to the organization in an expected playoff run season than his absence from the team for a whole season when he's 29 and the quality of team is an unknown?

 

The OP stated that an extension could be pursued, if superstar performance was in play.  Tatis was used as a comparable. 

 

I just don't see the possibility of extension or the higher value of three weeks in 2021.  Good guy/bad buy isn't being argued.

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As much as I'm a fan of Trueblood, this one misses the mark pretty badly. Here are some facts to consider with respect to 2019 -

 

- Of the 53 primary outfielders (per FG) that qualified, 20 were age 29 or older.

- by RC+, a much better measure than OPS+, 8 of those 20 had an RC+ of 115 or more.

- Choo just missed at 112, Merrifield was at 110, and Eaton at 108. 

 

Granted, this includes right-handed hitters and some CFers. But it's not clear to me why aging should only be evaluated against other left-handed hitters. If there's a clear reason for this, it should be noted in the article.

 

Even if one were to accept the highly-misleading take on age 29+ outfielders, it still wouldn't support the argument. If Kirilloff isn't that good, then of course service time doesn't matter. Teams hold guys back *just in case* they turn out to be impact players, of the sort that are usually still good at age 29.

 

The Twins are not going to start Kirilloff in the minors because he might turn out like Rosario or Schwarber. They are going to start him in the minors because he might turn out to be one of the best hitters in the league - something that is seen as quite possible by neutral third-parties (see, e.g., Keith Law, Fangraphs, etc.). 

 

That leaves basically nothing of the article intact except the notion of "goodwill." But as has been pointed out repeatedly, there is zero reason to believe that starting Kirilloff with the Twins in 2021 would do anything whatsoever to help retain him beyond the 6 years of team control. The article also is inherently contradictory on this issue, because if Kirilloff will be toast by 29 anyway, then buying "goodwill" has little value. 

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I quit reading when I reached the bolded text. This is a ridiculous statement. Your suggestion is that this player is likely to be far more valuable in their rookie season as compared to their last year of arbitration. 

 

I don't know that it's that ridiculous.  You could make an argument that Eddie Rosario's rookie year was more valuable than his last year (by WAR at least)

 

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I don't know that it's that ridiculous.  You could make an argument that Eddie Rosario's rookie year was more valuable than his last year (by WAR at least)

 

One guy / one data point provides absolutely no value. The approach Drivlikejuhu used which includes the entire population is the correct approach. The premise that a majority of players will perform better in his first 3 weeks in majors vs his final year of arbitration is ridiculous. If not, why would we every sign a free agent. 

 

More importantly, the value proposition here is not based on relative ability in year 1 vs year 6 or 7. It's the first 3 weeks vs a year of control in a players prime. This is the kind of arguments teenagers make when they want something that is irrational.

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Are we convinced that a few weeks of Kirilloff would even be better than a few weeks of Cave/Rooker/Arraez? (Assuming that once Kirilloff is called up, he'll be a full-time player.)

Service issues aside, I'd put my money on the platoon. Once Kirrilloff kills AAA for a few weeks, then bring him up. What is the downside to allowing him start in the minors for a little while?

 

Also, and this is complete conjecture on my part, but I think that Rooker would have started the playoff game if he had been healthy.

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The corner OF that I believe (without any evidence) that Kirilloff is most comparable to is Michael Brantley, who continues to be valuable well past age 29. I think that by the end of spring training he will be viewed as a step above the alternatives the first month as well as at age 29. Even if Arreaz is the opening day LF, Kirilloff would play there often besides giving Kepler a day off and Buxton a day off with Kepler in CF.

 

The goodwill argument for an extension in a couple years may be weak, but perhaps disregarding service time (if he is dominant in spring training) may help the Twins with other players.

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Nice - I was taking a lot of heat in another discussion thread for my belief that Kiriloff should start the season, then Bonnes said it on Off Season Live, and now you put some stats to the debate.  I appreciate it and I further want to emphasize that the latest foot in the mouth output in Seattle makes it even more likely that teams will want to avoid the stigma of this delayed promotion.  Baseball has a lot of things to work out - this is an obvious one.  Unless Kiriloff trips over first base and can't start the season I want him in the lineup from day one. 

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If AK is one of the best 25 players you start him opening day. I think he is. This season, more than most, every win is going to matter. Get your best on the field and start banking wins from the get go.

 

People want to talk about Boros like he's some villain or something. He is just a great advocate for his clients. I'd want him to represent me if I was a talented player too. The current system is pretty broken and will be adjusted in the next CBA. Plus, Boros is getting up there in age too. He's been doing this sports agent thing since the 80s. The guy is pushing 70 now. Who knows how long he's going to keep up the hustle!

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I'm going to echo statements made here, as well as repeating myself from other threads previously.

 

1] The FO has drawn actual, public praise from agents to reporters for their professionalism in the past, especially recently from the 2020 milb season/fallout, FA contacts/negotiations to the recent arbitration process. While our FO COULD choose the play the service time game, there is ZERO reason to EXPECT that they will. But for some reason, it's just been assumed that they will. And that's just wrong at this time.

 

2] I fully appreciate all the work Matt put in to his arguements about potential value at late 20yr old value comparisons but completely dismiss it. (Though to be fair, he did state there is the possibility Kirilloff bucks his statistical trends as stated). I simply can't and won't dismiss value of a top 23yo prospect 6 or 7 years from now being an excellent player because others aren't. I just don't see any truism in that arguement. There are statistics, damn statistics, and lies. I disagree with, "To get this narrative right, and to shape the arguement properly, we need to premediate upon and look at these threads of of arguement now".

 

The Twins love the kid and believe in him. The fact he was in St Paul and got his ONE GAME appearance in the playoffs proves that. And yes, he lost a year to injury and lost a covid year. Yes, he needs to prove himself, no matter how much the Twins love him and believe in him. But other pkayers have lost season's due to injury and all but a few lost the entire 2020 season. And if 2020 had been normal, he might be written in permanent ink for LF RIGHT NOW. But that's not what happened.

 

3] In ANY sport, you have a roster of players, college or professional. And you have an investment not only in playing your best players, but you have an investment in ALL of your players on that roster.

 

Matt, I'm a huge fan and believer in Kirilloff. And I can't wait to see him play daily and start to rake and reach his potential. I'm sure you feel the same. And I hate to be THAT GUY, but I have to re-quote something you said: "He's only still waiting to crack the roster because last season was truncated, and because of injury issues earlier in his professional career." This only seems to restate the fact that maybe he shouldn't be HANDED the job out of ST.

 

And I agree with you 100% that his play in ST will/should help determine the issue. But again, the Twins have an investment in Arraez and Rooker as well. And just taking a long and pragmatic view of that investment, don't those guys also deserve opportunity? (Leaving Cave out of the discussion because thus far he is what he is, a really nice 4th OF who might start for a lesser team).

 

Can we just drop the service time issue for a moment and look at reality? (Meant for everyone). Arraez needs to play. Rooker not only needs to play, he's done nothing in his milb career or SSS at the ML level to indicate he can't play or doesn't deserve a chance. What is wrong...assuming for a moment that Khirilloff begins next season at St Paul...with letting AK "ramp up" and let others get their shot?

 

For example, for a moment, think about a pro or college football team that has an incumbent WR/RB/QB but brought in a 5* recruit or top draft choice at the same position. There is an investment in the talent on hand. Do you just hand the job to the new guy whether he is ready or not? No. He earns the spot, either immediately or soon, or eventually.

 

We just need to drop the whole service time issue and examine putting the best team on the field. That may mean Kirilloff being the #1 guy from day one. It could also mean, especially considering how crazy and weird 2020 was, that letting Arraez and Rooker get an opportunity to begin the season is the smart move.

 

I'm of the hope Kirilloff is READY and has a great ST and forces the issue and rakes from day ONE and contends with Jeffers for ROY. (Interesting nobody has ever spoken about Jeffers being held back for service time. Why? Oh yeah, lack of depth and options) Service time may be a result, but it doesn't have to be a mitigating factor if we just approach the situation logically and ignore some rampant conspiracy that the Twins have no additional OF depth/options and are just playing a "potential" numbers game.

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Does anyone believe that service time, as it currently exists, will survive the next cba?

The Twins need to field their best team, whatever that looks like, from Day 1. Rosario was cut loose to apportion funds elsewhere and open a spot for competition amongst a slew of solid players. May the best player or platoon system prevail.

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The New York Giants kept Willie Mays in AAA until May in 1951. He was hitting well over .400 by the t,one they brought him up. I doubt that service time was an issue back then. I just think they wanted him to get his legs under him before he started his MLB career.

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It appears Kirilloff is ready. Say they do have him with the big club for opening day. And he struggles a bit. Would it be OK to send him to AAA to manipulate service time?

 

I’m OK with the front office making a decision on Kirillofff either way. But let’s see how this plays out in spring training. There are a lot of different possible outcomes, but if this organization thinks he’s ready for the majors he should be there on opening day. Finding a way to win as many games possible should be the only goal.

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Does anyone believe that service time, as it currently exists, will survive the next cba?

 

Someone else alluded to the matter of whether there will be any grandfathering regarding any speculated changes in the service time provisions of the next CBA. The FO seems smart enough to take this into account. In any case it seems apparent that their philosophy is to do what they think is best for the franchise as a whole, and I expect they will make decisions on Kirilloff and the rest of the roster based on that.

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No question.

It’s just silly for anyone to say he’s ready to start a playoff game against the Astros, but he’s not ready to play opening day.

.........

What if you miss home field advantage, lose the division, or even miss the playoffs by one game and he would’ve made the difference, since we’re dealing in hypotheticals?

Darius, you nailed it. Couldn't have said it better.

 

Add in that we let Rosario go - it's not like there's an established 30 HR 100+ RBI guy currently playing in RF. We're talking Cave/Arraez here.

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A lot of mention of Kirilloff starting a playoff game proving he should be the opening day LFer. Seem to be completely ignoring the fact that there were multiple injuries on that team that lead to him getting the call. If Buxton were healthy Kirilloff never comes over from St Paul. If Rooker is healthy, and still hitting, Kirilloff never comes over from St Paul. People make it sound like Kirilloff got the start over a number of current players and thus the team thought he was better. He started over Cave so you can make that argument there, but he didn't start over Buxton, Rooker, or Arraez. Buxton doesn't matter in this conversation, but Rooker and Arraez do. Shoot, even Marwan would've started over him if Donaldson was healthy.

 

As for the new CBA changing service time rules (I really hope it does), there is no way the league gives them a change in those rules but doesn't demand current players be grandfathered in. They aren't simply going to give up those cost controlled years. In fact, agents of big time prospects who are probably a year or 2 away are probably crossing their fingers they don't get called up this year so they aren't stuck in the old system. 

 

As fans we always want the best players we can get on our team for every game every year. As players and coaches they are always looking to win as many games as possible every year, but even Rocco looks to the future somewhat by giving guys as much rest as he does. But as FO personnel they need to keep an eye on the future. If you think a prospect is a utility guy/backup you call them up when you need them with no concern to service time. If you think they're a league average everyday guy you call them up without much concern to service time. If you think they're a top 100 MLB player with superstar upside that can hit in the heart of a championship order you have to be concerned with service time. Even the Dodgers and Yankees play these games. It's annoying, and as fans we shouldn't like it. But it's smart and the way good teams run their organizations.

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Does anyone believe that service time, as it currently exists, will survive the next cba?

The Twins need to field their best team, whatever that looks like, from Day 1. Rosario was cut loose to apportion funds elsewhere and open a spot for competition amongst a slew of solid players. May the best player or platoon system prevail.

This is the proper way to look at this, and I am guessing this is how it plays out. I am hoping we see the Arraez bat from 2019 in spring training and he starts day 1 in LF and bats leadoff. Within a month he will be playing all over the field with days off and injuries, and at that time we can deem Kirilloff or Rooker the everyday LF'er.

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I have been calling for no manipulation all winter.  Glad you got data to help back that up.  I was more on the optics side of why making clear manipulation of players is bad for CBA.  Already the game has shifted as this article points out to younger players and 29 plus guys not getting the long term deals they used to.  

 

This has upset the players that used to get the 7 year deals at age 29 to 31.  Now they are getting 2 year deals for much less money overall.  It used to be if you can be good until your FA year you could cash in, and the mega stars would sign long term deals with opt outs at age 30, expecting another mega deal.  Well FO rules changed learning there was a lot of bad money in those contracts and they have basically stopped.

 

Throw in the manipulation of a year of service time and you get really upset players because you take one year of big money from them.  Work stoppage will happen, and if teams are still manipulating service time it will just make players even more upset.  If Kirilloff hits well in ST he needs to break with team to have the best lineup out there all season.  Lets worry about 6 years from now, 6 years from now. 

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