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Rosario Placed on Outright Waiver


Vanimal46
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This decision is justifiable from a business perspective, less so from a baseball perspective. Is Eddie worth 10m for his average production over the last 3-4 years in MLB baseball in 2021? Definitely yes if you don't look at pandemic related possible changes, probably yes even with those. Will Kirrlloff/Rooker replace his production in 2021? There seem to be a lot of posters here who think they will, but history tells us they won't in their first full year in the bigs. I would bet the chances are not good for 2021 and let's not forget, neither one of these guys is great defensive OF. In fact, Rooker is a clear downgrade from Rosario in the field. Now, I think its fair to say that one of those 2 (or Larnach) will be ready to replace Rosario's offensive output by 2022 possibly or 2023 but its unlikely that will happen next year. Next year will be the usual good start, league adjusts so they slump, they adjust and get back going, league adjusts again, rinse/repeat kind of year.  

 

Supporters are clinging to Rosario’s production 3-5 years ago. I think the key difference in opinion is if you believe the drastic decline in OPS and wRC+ after his brilliant start to 2018 is a fluke or did the league adjust? If you believe it’s a fluke … no doubt the Twins should have resigned him. If you believe the league adjusted … Rosario’s decline indicates an inability to counter the adjustments made by the league.

 

Should we make personnel decisions on what the player did in the distant past or more recent productivity? Should we make roster decisions based on past performance or what we believe to be future performance? Every team in MLB passed on the opportunity to pick him up. That quite telling of how teams see his value and we will get an even better valuation in free agency.

 

Why did every team in MLB pass? They obviously don’t see Rosario in the same lights as his supporters here. IMO, they see a player who was fantastic for a relatively short period. In Rosario’s case the last ½ of 2017 and the 1st half of 2018 when he produced 44% of his career WAR in 23% of his career Games Played. His numbers are slightly below average for the other 77% of his career

 

2015 through the 1st half of 2017.

 

ABs 1090
WAR 4.2
wRC+ 97
OPS 750

 

2nd half of 2017 through the 2018 trade deadline (7/31/18)

 

ABs 664
WAR 5.0
wRC+ 135
OPS 895

 

8/1/18-present

 

ABs 1076
WAR 2.2
wRC+ 97
OPS 761

 

I think a lot of fans want to keep Rosario because he was phenomenal for a short period of time. That would be fine if there was good reason to believe he will perform closer to the 23% of his career when he was great than the 77% when he was not but that is awfully optimistic. Apparently, every team in MLB thinks the same.

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Supporters are clinging to Rosario’s production 3-5 years ago. 

 

The Rosario naysayers today are the same people who did not like him 3-5 years ago.

For whatever reason, Rosario has always been divisive in the community.

 

Ask yourself this: If you are old enough to remember, could you see the late 80s championship Twins teams getting rid of a player like a 29-year old Rosario to avoid paying him a mediocre wage? Nevermind that the 90s -10s teams would not keep him.

 

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The Rosario naysayers today are the same people who did not like him 3-5 years ago.

For whatever reason, Rosario has always been divisive in the community.

 

Ask yourself this: If you are old enough to remember, could you see the late 80s championship Twins teams getting rid of a player like a 29-year old Rosario to avoid paying him a mediocre wage? Nevermind that the 90s and 10s teams wouldn't keep him.

 

I am not sure if they are the same people (in general) that did not like him 3-5 years ago. However, I was a big fan starting his last year in AAA. I saw him play in the AFL Championship game and he was extremely impressive. He was one of my favorite players when he came up. My wife was a big fan too. However, I remember telling her at some point that ML pitchers were going to abuse him if he did not improve his plate discipline.

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Sorry, but Rosario has not been the Twins best outfielder. He is a slightly above average corner outfielder. In 3 of the last 4 years both Buxton and Kepler had higher WAR than Rosario did despite Buxton playing in fewer games. Kiriloff can replace Rosario's numbers or exceed them if he stays on the field. Rooker would be a defensive downgrade even from Rosie if he played every day. I'm sure they'll go with Kiriloff. 

 

WAR pHoohy. I stand with my statement of Rosario being better than Buxton or Kepler.

When Buxton and Kepler put up the same numbers Rosario did over the last 4 years then I'll believe they are better. Until then you are blowing smoke up my you know what with your WAR theory!

Rosario: 94 HR's, 306RBI's, Career BA of .277

Buxton: 39 HR's, 128 RBI's, Career BA of .238

Kepler: 84 HR's, 241 RBI's, Career BA of .237

 

Career BA is a good comparison. Kepler has played 1 less season than Buxton and Rosario so it's not a big difference maker.

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Interesting analysis on Rosario. Same questions can be raised about Kepler. Is he the hitter from 2019 (very good, but perhaps an outlier or recency bias), or is he the hitter from 2017, 2019, and 2020 (below average for a corner OF). The FO may have decided that Kepler is what he was in 2019, or somethiung close to that, and Rosario is what he was in the second half of 2019 and 2020. Add in the obvious differnce on defense and you keep Kepler over Rosario. Or it may just be as simple as asking what's the big difference between the two? Kepler - signed through 2023 at an AAV of $7m vs. Rosario - one year arb deal at $9-10M. Kepler took the team friendly deal. Rosario did not, assuming one was offered.

 

It will be interesting to see where Eddie winds up and at what price. MLB passed on him at one year arb salary, although the weird circumstances of 2020 may have a lot to do with that. As they say, timing is everything in life. Will it be a one year "pillow" contract or a 2-3 year deal? Would he come back to the Twins for something like Kepler is getting - 3 years at an AAV at $7-8m?  He'll be a starting LF somewhere on Opening Day 2021.  My guess is in Chicago with the Cubs or White Sox, but I think the Twins might stay in play at the right price. This offseason may be fascinating to watch because there are a lot of guys out there like Rosario - good but flawed. Could be a loing, tough winter for those guys.  

 

I agree. However, 2020 was so weird and the production of many great players was off considerably. Is Kepler going to be the 2019 version (great), the 2018 version (average) or the 2017 version (not so good)? This might be an oversimplification but he improved against LH pitching in 2018 and was very good against LH pitching in 2019.

 

He is 1 ½ years younger than Rosario and in the heart of his prime. His ability to back-up CF is also quite important given Buxton is prone to injury.  Of course, the relative success of Kirilloff / Larnach / Rooker, and I guess Celestino might also plays into Kepler’s future with the club. We could add where Lewis ends up playing to that list because he could end up in CF.

 

The good news is Kepler is inexpensive for the next couple years and reasonable for the next two after. The Twins are positioned to let these scenarios play out. I am hoping we see the Kepler of 2019 going forward and Larnach / Kirilloff are both studs. Would love to have that problem!

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I will say this about Rosario. He has an edge. He will be a great buy low opportunity for someone. He will not forget the way he is being treated by MLB right now. My guess is the guy gets in the gym and works and works and has another great year next year. 

 

Obviously, this is just a guess. But this guy has heart and soul. Now you are handing it(the team) over to a guy like Buxton that has none of that. He cracks his finger nail and he will sit out for a dang playoff series. Or a guy like Sano that could be Miguel Cabrera in his prime, but likes cheeseburgers and the couch too much. 

 

That said, as this team is constructed, this is probably the right move. We just have so many young kids that play his position and can likely do it close to as well(possibly better) for much cheaper. 

 

 

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I will say this about Rosario. He has an edge. He will be a great buy low opportunity for someone. He will not forget the way he is being treated by MLB right now. My guess is the guy gets in the gym and works and works and has another great year next year. 

 

Obviously, this is just a guess. But this guy has heart and soul. Now you are handing it(the team) over to a guy like Buxton that has none of that. He cracks his finger nail and he will sit out for a dang playoff series. Or a guy like Sano that could be Miguel Cabrera in his prime, but likes cheeseburgers and the couch too much. 

 

That said, as this team is constructed, this is probably the right move. We just have so many young kids that play his position and can likely do it close to as well(possibly better) for much cheaper. 

 

I believe he as the ability to be absolutely great but his physical condition has very little to do with his productivity being average since the middle of 2018, IMO. His approach and plate disciple is in the bottom 1-2% of the league. His enormous talent allows him to produce reasonably well in spite of his horrid plate discipline. IMO, developing a better approach would far outweigh anything he could do in terms of conditioning. He has demonstrated an unwillingness or inability to do this for the last 2 1/2 seasons. Who knows ... this could be the thing that makes him willing to adapt.

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WAR pHoohy. I stand with my statement of Rosario being better than Buxton or Kepler.

When Buxton and Kepler put up the same numbers Rosario did over the last 4 years then I'll believe they are better. Until then you are blowing smoke up my you know what with your WAR theory!

Rosario: 94 HR's, 306RBI's, Career BA of .277

Buxton: 39 HR's, 128 RBI's, Career BA of .238

Kepler: 84 HR's, 241 RBI's, Career BA of .237

 

Career BA is a good comparison. Kepler has played 1 less season than Buxton and Rosario so it's not a big difference maker.

The Twins will regret this for at least 1-2 years.  I almost guarantee that he will be tuned up for a game with the Twins and will be a bit like Big Papi.  I get the business case, but Rosario will end up having a better total career than Buxton or Kepler.  Sorry, that is just the case.  Buxton cannot stay healthy and has been inconsistent, and Kepler just cannot translate a great swing into a consistent average or consistent power.  Rosario will prove this to be true.  Unfortunately, we couldn't get him to agree to the longer/cheaper deal that Kepler has, which I think (in conjunction with the young options) created the situation at present.  This was the result of Rosario breaking in earlier, and having more arbitration leverage than the other two earlier.  I still stand by my prediction that he will be a more reliable threat than Buxton or Kepler, and that the 2-3 rookies will not approach his production in HRs and RBIs for at least 3 years.  Lastly, I don't get why the Twins are so ready to move in youngsters to everyday positions, but less so for SPs?  They keep bringing in older retreads, and clearly drag out young SPs too long (starting with Romero - whom they screwed up, and it remains to be seen whether Duran and Balazo will be brought up before some warts show).

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WAR pHoohy. I stand with my statement of Rosario being better than Buxton or Kepler.

When Buxton and Kepler put up the same numbers Rosario did over the last 4 years then I'll believe they are better. Until then you are blowing smoke up my you know what with your WAR theory!

Rosario: 94 HR's, 306RBI's, Career BA of .277

Buxton: 39 HR's, 128 RBI's, Career BA of .238

Kepler: 84 HR's, 241 RBI's, Career BA of .237

 

Career BA is a good comparison. Kepler has played 1 less season than Buxton and Rosario so it's not a big difference maker.

It's one thing to not like WAR, and another to completely throw out the fielding portion of the comparison, where Buxton is an elite game-changer when healthy and Rosario has been slowing down. Also, I'd rather know their RBI % rather than just the raw number, since Kepler has usually been in the #1 / #6 spot in the lineup and Buxton has usually been #9. Eddie's been in the #4 spot, and has had far more chances to hit in runs than the other two. 

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WAR pHoohy. I stand with my statement of Rosario being better than Buxton or Kepler.

When Buxton and Kepler put up the same numbers Rosario did over the last 4 years then I'll believe they are better. Until then you are blowing smoke up my you know what with your WAR theory!

Rosario: 94 HR's, 306RBI's, Career BA of .277

Buxton: 39 HR's, 128 RBI's, Career BA of .238

Kepler: 84 HR's, 241 RBI's, Career BA of .237

 

Career BA is a good comparison. Kepler has played 1 less season than Buxton and Rosario so it's not a big difference maker.

 

Career BA is not only not a good comparison it's a very incomplete comparison. OPS or wRC+ are much better measures of productivity. 

 

Career numbers are also not the best measure. Eddie was better 3-5 years ago. Problem is the league adapts to players. Some can adjust and others are not able.  More recent information is a better predictor. Since 7/1/18-present …

 

Rosario has ABs 1082 ABs and
HRs - 51
wRC+ 97
OPS 760

 

Kepler has 1097 ABs and
HRs - 57
wRC+ 114
OPS 811

 

Perhaps that’s why Streamer’s projected wRC+ for the two players in 2021 is 105 / 113 in favor of Kepler. Let’s not forget defense matters as well which is why Kepler’s war since the last half of 2018 is 7.0 and Rosario’s is a meager 2.2.

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Career BA is not only not a good comparison it's a very incomplete comparison. OPS or wRC+ are much better measures of productivity. 

 

Career numbers are also not the best measure. Eddie was better 3-5 years ago. Problem is the league adapts to players. Some can adjust and others are not able.  More recent information is a better predictor. Since 7/1/18-present …

 

Rosario has ABs 1082 ABs and
HRs - 51
wRC+ 97
OPS 760

 

Kepler has 1097 ABs and
HRs - 57
wRC+ 114
OPS 811

 

Perhaps that’s why Streamer’s projected wRC+ for the two players in 2021 is 105 / 113 in favor of Kepler. Let’s not forget defense matters as well which is why Kepler’s war since the last half of 2018 is 7.0 and Rosario’s is a meager 2.2.

 

The problem with the "Since the middle of 2018" theory is it includes 2019, which was Kepler's one outstanding year coupled with a down year for Rosario. Those small sample sizes will get ya every time.

 

For comparison, Rosario's 2018 performance, by WAR, was equal to Kepler's 2019 performance. So... Rosario sucks? Rosario and Kepler had a nearly identical WAR in 2020, with Rosario having a slight lead.

 

If we want to look at the data objectively, either both of these guys suck or neither of them suck, depending on how you define "suck." Any other conclusion is just cherry picking.

 

I think if anyone believes that a healthy Rosario, at age 29, will never have another outstanding year, and never be as good as or better than Kepler again, is fooling themselves.

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The simple fact is that 0 out of 30 MLB teams think Rosario is an above-average player. Any team could have had him without giving up anything, and just paying his arbitration salary.

 

So for those folks that think Rosario is obviously an above-average player, the necessary conclusion is that those posters are better at evaluating players than all 30 MLB organizations.

 

I personally struggle to see how that could possibly be true, but ymmv.

 

 

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Comparing Rosario/Buxton/Kepler looks deceptively simple because they came up at about the same time. But their ages complicate the comparison.

 

It's generally agreed that baseball players continue to learn and improve into their mid-twenties, after which further learning starts to be offset by aging. It's different for each player but it's a decent rule of thumb. A player may be ready to contribute at age 21, and it's fine to bring him up to the majors if so, but you have to recognize you aren't likely seeing his best, yet.

 

Eddie is almost 1.5 years older than Max, and more than 2 years older than Byron. This matters, when you simply aggregate several years of past performance.

 

Eddie had his best year at age 26 (using b-r.com's assignment of ages). Max had his best year so far at... age 26. Byron had his only (nearly) complete season at age 23, and his age 25-26 numbers have been better but in smaller quantity due to injury.

 

Looking at things this way seems to be a better way of roughly forecasting the coming season or two, and supports the idea that both Buxton and Kepler have passed up Rosario in terms of what to expect. And they both will play 2021 for less money than Rosario is likely to get.

 

If Kirilloff is judged by the front office to be ready, it could be that by mid-season Eddie would have been a fourth-outfielder. And a team like the Twins doesn't typically pay its fourth outfielder the most money of the four. Buxton's an injury risk, Kirilloff's a performance risk, so they could have gone that route anyway. But it's at least understandable that they didn't.

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WAR pHoohy. I stand with my statement of Rosario being better than Buxton or Kepler.

When Buxton and Kepler put up the same numbers Rosario did over the last 4 years then I'll believe they are better. Until then you are blowing smoke up my you know what with your WAR theory!

Rosario: 94 HR's, 306RBI's, Career BA of .277

Buxton: 39 HR's, 128 RBI's, Career BA of .238

Kepler: 84 HR's, 241 RBI's, Career BA of .237

 

Career BA is a good comparison. Kepler has played 1 less season than Buxton and Rosario so it's not a big difference maker.

Career BA is not a good comparison. Nobody cares about batting average anymore. 

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Is Eddie worth 10m for his average production over the last 3-4 years in MLB baseball in 2021? Definitely yes if you don't look at pandemic related possible changes, probably yes even with those. Will Kirrlloff/Rooker replace his production in 2021? 

 

 

Look at LB left fielder salaries. Yelich is making 14 million. Benintendi is making 6 million. Soto is making 6.5. Cory Dickerson 9.5 million. Anthony Santander raked last year. 2m. 

 

So no, Rosario is most definitely not worth 10 mil for his future production. That is why he went unclaimed by every team.  LF is not a premium position, which is why unless your name is Christian Yelich or Andrew Mccutcheon, you're not getting paid a lot to play left field. 

 

Rooker is a terrible defender and won't be the every day LF. I expect it to be AK, and he can replace Eddie's production, or if not, he should be close, and then the team can spend the money on an elite reliever. 

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I believe he as the ability to be absolutely great but his physical condition has very little to do with his productivity being average since the middle of 2018, IMO. His approach and plate disciple is in the bottom 1-2% of the league. His enormous talent allows him to produce reasonably well in spite of his horrid plate discipline. IMO, developing a better approach would far outweigh anything he could do in terms of conditioning. He has demonstrated an unwillingness or inability to do this for the last 2 1/2 seasons. Who knows ... this could be the thing that makes him willing to adapt.

 

The game ain't played on paper, me-boy!

 

Winners-win.

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The problem with the "Since the middle of 2018" theory is it includes 2019, which was Kepler's one outstanding year coupled with a down year for Rosario. Those small sample sizes will get ya every time.

 

For comparison, Rosario's 2018 performance, by WAR, was equal to Kepler's 2019 performance. So... Rosario sucks? Rosario and Kepler had a nearly identical WAR in 2020, with Rosario having a slight lead.

 

If we want to look at the data objectively, either both of these guys suck or neither of them suck, depending on how you define "suck." Any other conclusion is just cherry picking.

 

I think if anyone believes that a healthy Rosario, at age 29, will never have another outstanding year, and never be as good as or better than Kepler again, is fooling themselves.

 

For starters, I have made a pivotal assumption. Rosario was absolutely fantastic in the last half of 2017 and the first half of 2018. The last half of 18 he played at replacement level and has not been even remotely as good every since. The assumption is the league adjusted. I welcome any other theories if you care to reject my assumption. 

 

You are assuming my position is Rosario sucks and Kepler is great. My position is Kepler improved significantly on his weakness which was left hand pitching. Rosario has not adjusted and therefore Kepler has been better offensively. The number are crystal clear if you accept something significant changed after Rosario's exceptional performance from the 2nd half of 2017-1st half of 2018. Add to this Kepler is much better defensively. He can even play an important role in backing up CF and his cost was about half of the arbitration estimates for Rosario. It's not simply Rosario vs Kepler. It's Kepler + $5M to be used toward a SP or one of the better utility guys or a couple BP arms vs Rosario. For some reason this reality is be ignored by many.

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Ask yourself this: If you are old enough to remember, could you see the late 80s championship Twins teams getting rid of a player like a 29-year old Rosario to avoid paying him a mediocre wage? Nevermind that the 90s -10s teams would not keep him.

Huh? The ‘87 champion Twins did exactly that. The ‘88 Twins got rid of an ‘expensive’ Tom Brunansky at age 27...and after a significantly better year than what Rosario just had. Happens all the time...and has everything to do with the overall roster and payroll and little to do with what the player can provide in absolute terms.

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It was a no-brainer given the arriving options...and the league has further validated this.

 

Having said that, I will miss watching his at-bats. Never knew what would happen. The hands were...and are...amazing. Hands so quick and so strong that he frequently could do considerable damage, even without ever appearing to have a consistent plan or approach.

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The game ain't played on paper, me-boy!

 

Winners-win.

 

Apparently not one of the 30 GMs in MLB have your unique understanding of player value.

 

Yes, his enthusiasm has some benefit. It also promotes frequent defensive mistakes, poor base running and a lot of absolutely horrid ABs. They might interpret winners as players like Donaldson who's intensity results in consistent ABs, solid defense and most of all consistent/excellent results. Eddie has had one period (2nd 1/2 of 2017-1st half of 2018) where he has performed above average. The other 80% of his career he has been average of below average but let's not let hard facts distract for understanding not one GM understood Eddie's value. I guess we need to understand when we win 101 games as we did in 2019 that it was Eddie willing us to win even though he was 11th in WAR among position players. Here I thought all of those players that played better than him were the key.to winning. 

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I agree that the comparison between Rosario and Kepler has to include Kepler's superior defense and lower salary, and that it is rational to save the additional roughly $3-5m Rosario costs and could even help the team IF its used on other player improvements. We will see if that's the case; I hope it is.  

 

I think what I and others on this site don't get is the idea that Kepler is anywhere near equivalent as a hitter to Rosario. Outside of 2019, he simply isn't even close. Comparing their OPS+ for the last 4 seasons (2017-2020) - Rosario 119, 116, 107, 115. Kepler - 95, 97, 123 (2019), 108. Why is Rosario easily better each year except 2019? Because Kepler can't hit left handed pitching, except for 2019. Kepler's splits vs. LH (2017-2020) - .152/.213/.240 (.453 - horrible), .245/.313/.422 (.745 - not bad, except better than he hit RH ptiching so overall not great), .293/.356.524 (.880 - great), and .128/.208/.170 (.378 - horrible again). So, is that evidence of steady improvement with 2020 a blip because of "unusual circumstances", or is this evidence that the guy can't really hit LH very well and had a career year in 2019? Who knows? What we do know is that his OPS+ tells us that he's a below average hitter for a corner OF, who in MLB should be at or above .785-.800 year in, year out.

 

Don't get me wrong, Kepler is a fine player and I'm glad we have him long term. But let's not kid ourselves about what he is - he's a very good to excellent fielding corner OF who can be an average or slightly above CF in a pinch, who runs well, has power, but is overall a below average hitter for his position. He's not a great leadoff hitter and he's not going ot be able to replace Rosario in the middle of the order. The Twins are going to have to find someone else to do that job.  And that's why some of us are concerned that Rosario was let go and are hoping that the plan is something other than a hope that a rookie will be able to repalce his production in the middle of the order. Kepler is not that guy. He should hit 6 or 7 after Sano, who should hit 5 or 6 depending on whether Cruz hits 3 or 4, assuming Cruz is back.  I wonder about our batting order if Cruz isn't back. It could be ugly.   

 

You and the others you reference are focused on what they have been. The FO is far more interested in what they will be. I share that view. Those who can’t imagine why Kepler is an equivalent offensive player are basing this position on what happened over the entire course of their careers. In other words, the distant pass. That information is not the most indicative of what they will be going forward.

 

Neither player has ever sustained a high level of productivity. Kepler has had one great year. Was that year a break-out year? IDK. Rosario’s career has three distinct periods. By far his most productive period was the last half of 2017 through the first half of 2018. He produced just shy of half of his career WAR during that period.

 

Since the first half of 2018, Rosario’s wRC+ is 97/ Kepler’s is 114. Rosario’s OPS 760 / Kepler 811.  Rosario has 51 HRs / Kepler 57. Kepler has also has trended up steadily improving his weakness which if LH pitching with the exception of 47 ABs in 2020. Perhaps this is wht Streamer projects a wRC+ of 105 for Rosario and 113 for Kepler.

 

IMO, it is very clear the league adjusted and Rosario has been unable to adapt to how the league pitches him now. Kepler has been trending up. Both players have over 1,000 ABs in the comparison above so we are talking about a large sample size. Is it possible Rosario will adapt? Sure. That does not change the fact that Kepler has been the better offensive player since the middle of 2018 when the league reacted to Rosario’s dominant play. It's not so much Kepler has gotten better as Rosario has been below average since then.  If you disagree the current performance is a product of the league adjusting, you are welcome to that opinion, we will just have to agree to disagree.

 

I also believe that defense and cost has gotten lost in this debate. Consider the defensive contribution as well as cost and Kepler is a considerably more important asset than Rosario.

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Huh? The ‘87 champion Twins did exactly that. The ‘88 Twins got rid of an ‘expensive’ Tom Brunansky at age 27...and after a significantly better year than what Rosario just had. Happens all the time...and has everything to do with the overall roster and payroll and little to do with what the player can provide in absolute terms.

 

Brunansky was traded.

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Traded for the great Tommy Herr, who was traded for the illustrious Shane Rawley, who was granted free agency.

 

We might as well have non-tendered him. :)
 

 

Such is the way of things with trades. There is risk involved. But he was traded, nonetheless.

 

This trade also happened mid-season. Brunansky was not cut from the team in December.

 

Plus, look at what Herr was paid and what Brunansky was paid. If the Twins made that trade to save money, they failed.

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The game ain't played on paper, me-boy!

 

Winners-win.

Well, Eddie has more playoff appearances than I do, but we each have the same number of wins. I don't really see any of the players on this team appropriate to label as winners.

 

If all I cared about was HRs and RBIs, Eddie would be my guy. But I care about wins.

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Apparently not one of the 30 GMs in MLB have your unique understanding of player value.

 

Yes, his enthusiasm has some benefit. It also promotes frequent defensive mistakes, poor base running and a lot of absolutely horrid ABs. They might interpret winners as players like Donaldson who's intensity results in consistent ABs, solid defense and most of all consistent/excellent results. Eddie has had one period (2nd 1/2 of 2017-1st half of 2018) where he has performed above average. The other 80% of his career he has been average of below average but let's not let hard facts distract for understanding not one GM understood Eddie's value. I guess we need to understand when we win 101 games as we did in 2019 that it was Eddie willing us to win even though he was 11th in WAR among position players. Here I thought all of those players that played better than him were the key.to winning. 

 

Just because he wasn't picked up at the price he was looking to get in arbitration, does not mean that 30 other GMs will pass on him. 

 

I also don't disagree that this was the right move for the Twins given their position. I just said that Rosario might be a good buy-low candidate to produce for someone. 

A team signs him for 2/13, that is probably a good buy for a guy with his talent and a chip on his shoulder. 

 

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Just because he wasn't picked up at the price he was looking to get in arbitration, does not mean that 30 other GMs will pass on him. 

 

I also don't disagree that this was the right move for the Twins given their position. I just said that Rosario might be a good buy-low candidate to produce for someone. 

A team signs him for 2/13, that is probably a good buy for a guy with his talent and a chip on his shoulder. 

 

What perplexes me about Rosario is that it sure seems like he picks up where the ball is going. In other words, he is not fooled but he swings anyway. At times it seems like he has made up his mind to swing before the pitch is delivered. At least that's what it looks like to me. He would be a 900 OPS guy or better If he made the opposition give him something to hit.

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What perplexes me about Rosario is that it sure seems like he picks up where the ball is going. In other words, he is not fooled but he swings anyway. At times it seems like he has made up his mind to swing before the pitch is delivered. At least that's what it looks like to me. He would be a 900 OPS guy or better If he made the opposition give him something to hit.

 

I agree with that. 

What I don't know is that it is possible to literally "learn" plate discipline this late into a career. Sometimes, it seems that is something you either have or you don't.

 

 

Buxton also seems to have poor plate discipline. He is a guess hitter and makes his mind up before the pitch is thrown alot of time also. 

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