Jump to content
Twins Daily
  • Create Account

Coronavirus


 

Congress cannot enact the DPA and cannot order companies to start producing. That’s the problem. And anything the House tries to do gets shut down in the Senate.

As for out of work hair stylists, they will be back at work in some capacity sooner than me. My industry will be hurting for a lot longer if the Mayor of LA is right.

Congress could enact a law giving tax credits to companies that produce PPE, and creating an agency to administer it. And Pelosi could pressure the Senate to act, and set up a situation where McConnell will suffer politically if he does not go along. I think that the time has come to start being more aggressive in attacking the virus instead of just helping people shelter from it.

 

As for public events, I fear that the Mayor may be correct

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Trusting salons and customers to use medical grade masks properly to make yourself pretty is stupid.  There are other ways we can help those workers out. I'd be in favor of stimulus designed to go directly to such furloughed workers, instead of just everyone. 

 

Seriously. We can wait on the haircuts and golf.  The problem isn't just you; it's everyone else who is too stupid, lazy or sloppy to correctly keep themselves from infecting themselves and others...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Good article - not sure if had been posted already - on the risk to rural America for COVID-19.

 

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/04/15/coronavirus-rural-america-covid-19-186031

 

 

Smithfield packing plant in Sioux Falls was closed because of the virus. It does about 4-5% of the countries meat production, so that's fairly large. 

A very large turkey processing plant locally has made significant changes and had no issues. I have an appointment to talk with them more about exact details of the timeline of additional precautions they've taken as they were making big changes all the way back in early February.

 

Smithfield crossed some lines, and that really got them in deep crap. With such an important chunk of the nation's food supply on the line, let's hope that wakes up others.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Trusting salons and customers to use medical grade masks properly to make yourself pretty is stupid.  There are other ways we can help those workers out. I'd be in favor of stimulus designed to go directly to such furloughed workers, instead of just everyone. 

 

Seriously. We can wait on the haircuts and golf.  The problem isn't just you; it's everyone else who is too stupid, lazy or sloppy to correctly keep themselves from infecting themselves and others...

I am already resigned to getting no haircuts for a while. But my stylist is also my friend and she is suffering financially and psychologically. Two or three more months of this is going to result in a lot more severe suffering for millions of people. Even worse, for all we know, this virus could be a problem for a year or more.

 

I wonder if you are registering the fact that I am advocating for SAFE ways for people to go back to work. I was talking about things like making N-95 masks (or better) available to everyone, along with rubber gloves and whatever else will maximize safety. I understand the reasons why N-95 masks are being limited to health care providers, but if there were an ample supply then I think that many/most people would use N-95 and be safer.

 

Maybe we should also put more weight on the long-term. This could be a precursor to a much worse pandemic that could occur at any time. Why not spend some money (and create some jobs) making a 350 million N-95 masks with replaceable filters so that everyone can have one? When this is over, the rich people will be able to stockpile such masks. Why not give them to everyone? 

 

One good thing about a pandemic is that with good leadership people can realize that it's in their own self interest to protect others. We would all be safer wearing N-95s and who knows when and whether a more deadly pandemic will follow. I say go all out making masks, gloves, disinfectant, test kits, etc,, but also give significant focus on getting people back to work to the extent that this can be done safely.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am already resigned to getting no haircuts for a while. But my stylist is also my friend and she is suffering financially and psychologically. Two or three more months of this is going to result in a lot more severe suffering for millions of people. Even worse, for all we know, this virus could be a problem for a year or more.

 

I wonder if you are registering the fact that I am advocating for SAFE ways for people to go back to work. I was talking about things like making N-95 masks (or better) available to everyone, along with rubber gloves and whatever else will maximize safety. I understand the reasons why N-95 masks are being limited to health care providers, but if there were an ample supply then I think that many/most people would use N-95 and be safer.

 

Maybe we should also put more weight on the long-term. This could be a precursor to a much worse pandemic that could occur at any time. Why not spend some money (and create some jobs) making a 350 million N-95 masks with replaceable filters so that everyone can have one? When this is over, the rich people will be able to stockpile such masks. Why not give them to everyone?

 

One good thing about a pandemic is that with good leadership people can realize that it's in their own self interest to protect others. We would all be safer wearing N-95s and who knows when and whether a more deadly pandemic will follow. I say go all out making masks, gloves, disinfectant, test kits, etc,, but also give significant focus on getting people back to work to the extent that this can be done safely.

Your ideas are great, in a perfect world. It’s not a question of capability, it’s the question of leadership and direction. We have none where it’s needed most to accomplish what you suggest. It’s not simply a matter of Congress passing a law when you have a Senate not interested and even if they would somehow get it done, a president who would veto anything that would seem to bypass his ‘authority.’ I mean it sounds great what you are proposing and I get how it sound so simple, but ... Also, as others in thread have mentioned it’s also just not possible to snap our fingers and ‘Voila!’ we are producing a massive amount of masks. That kind of production would take months and months.

 

I’m not trying to naysay here, I just think it’s not a possibility given the Senate and President we have.

 

And I agree that many are bad off and will get worse before it gets better. I wish the stimulus bill that was finally passed truly accomplished helping people first and not big business without oversight.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

I wonder if you are registering the fact that I am advocating for SAFE ways for people to go back to work. I was talking about things like making N-95 masks (or better) available to everyone, along with rubber gloves and whatever else will maximize safety. 

 

I specifically addressed this misguided recommendation.  I don't trust you or your stylist to properly manage not infecting each other with whatever complicated medical equipment you can supposedly master to get a haircut. You are off in fantasyland, and should probably realize your experience is pretty limited to you and your very narrow circle, and you probably shouldn't make broad recommendations off your anecdotal and privileged experience. Seriously.

Edited by PseudoSABR
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Your ideas are great, in a perfect world. It’s not a question of capability, it’s the question of leadership and direction. We have none where it’s needed most to accomplish what you suggest. It’s not simply a matter of Congress passing a law when you have a Senate not interested and even if they would somehow get it done, a president who would veto anything that would seem to bypass his ‘authority.’ I mean it sounds great what you are proposing and I get how it sound so simple, but ... Also, as others in thread have mentioned it’s also just not possible to snap our fingers and ‘Voila!’ we are producing a massive amount of masks. That kind of production would take months and months.

I’m not trying to naysay here, I just think it’s not a possibility given the Senate and President we have.

And I agree that many are bad off and will get worse before it gets better. I wish the stimulus bill that was finally passed truly accomplished helping people first and not big business without oversight.

I agree that the Senate and the President are obstacles to getting people back to work safely.

 

I disagree about how many N-95 masks could be produced in a month if all available resources were deployed, running 3 shifts per day. Companies like ITW could make machines to make the molds. I would guess that ITW alone could make at least 100 machines per day, and I would guess that one machine could push out thousands if not tens of thousands of molds per day. Other companies could work on the replaceable filters, the supply chain, assembly and distribution. I would guess that the masks could be made for less than $30 each, but even assuming $50 each that works out to $17.5 billion to give everyone a mask, then add another few billion a month to keep people supplied with filters.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

I specifically addressed this misguided recommendation.  I don't trust you or your stylist to properly manage not infecting each other with whatever complicated medical equipment you can supposedly master to get a haircut. You are off in fantasyland, and should probably realize your experience is pretty limited to you and your very narrow circle, and you probably shouldn't make broad recommendations off your anecdotal and privileged experience. Seriously.

There is no need to make this personal. 

 

If doctors can rely on N-95 masks, rubber gloves, and gowns to deal with situations that are a lot more dangerous than COVID (such as unexpected blood spurts during surgeries), please explain why a reasonably intelligent person cannot follow instructions to use these same tools, with some extra hand sanitizer thrown in with every step. Please explain specifically how you think that people might bungle this, assuming again that they receive clear instructions.

 

Let's have a debate, but not make it personal. i am willing to be persuaded, but so far you are mainly just insulting me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello everyone. Back for a minute. I know of 7 people who have C19 and 2 on quarantine who do not have it yet. Scary stuff for sure. I have my fears, but choose to keep my coping mechanisms intact. I thought I would share this info as it may be of interest. All of these people except for one takes it very seriously... that one outlier is a 19 year old with a 2 year old daughter. They are the ones quarantined who don't have it yet. No one is invincible and I hope she gets that into her thick skull... hopefully unscathed. They are very close family and it concerns me to the point where I lose sleep at night. Be safe everyone.

 

To note: None of them have died. I do have a 68 year old aunt who was on oxygen because of it and it was awful for her (heavy smoker). One was an 85 year old who tested positive with no symptoms. The other was an elderly man which has resulted in the afformentioned quarantines. They were the only three who had the test and tested positive as far as I know from the amount I mentioned - the others are pretty reliable and had direct contact... two of them medical professionals.

good luck! I wish you and yours well, and it’s good to see you. Miss your posting
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I gotta admit that I'm scratching my head a little bit over Operation Gridlock. 

 

The protesters are protesting strict social distancing guidelines imposed by Governors. I can understand that, I don't agree with it but I can at least understand their concern. 

 

The thing that makes me scratch my head is this:

 

They decided to execute this particular protest from the relative safety of their VEHICLES! Those who got out of their cars to walk around while waving flags and carrying their guns, you can see in the photos that a bunch of them were wearing masks. 

 

In other words: It's basically a protest using social distancing by staying in their VEHICLES to protest actual social distancing measures.  

 

Gotta admit... this makes me scratch my head in wonder. 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I gotta admit that I'm scratching my head a little bit over Operation Gridlock.

 

The protesters are protesting strict social distancing guidelines imposed by Governors. I can understand that, I don't agree with it but I can at least understand their concern.

 

The thing that makes me scratch my head is this:

 

They decided to execute this particular protest from the relative safety of their VEHICLES! Those who got out of their cars to walk around while waving flags and carrying their guns, you can see in the photos that a bunch of them were wearing masks.

 

In other words: It's basically a protest using social distancing by staying in their VEHICLES to protest actual social distancing measures.

 

Gotta admit... this makes me scratch my head in wonder.

Well they were from Michigan, so that lessens the head scratching.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

I gotta admit that I'm scratching my head a little bit over Operation Gridlock. 

 

The protesters are protesting strict social distancing guidelines imposed by Governors. I can understand that, I don't agree with it but I can at least understand their concern. 

 

The thing that makes me scratch my head is this:

 

They decided to execute this particular protest from the relative safety of their VEHICLES! Those who got out of their cars to walk around while waving flags and carrying their guns, you can see in the photos that a bunch of them were wearing masks. 

 

In other words: It's basically a protest using social distancing by staying in their VEHICLES to protest actual social distancing measures.  

 

Gotta admit... this makes me scratch my head in wonder. 

High on my bucket list is one more game thread opener from Brian before I die. I am now going back and reading the old ones. They are candy for the soul.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I gotta admit that I'm scratching my head a little bit over Operation Gridlock. 

 

The protesters are protesting strict social distancing guidelines imposed by Governors. I can understand that, I don't agree with it but I can at least understand their concern. 

 

The thing that makes me scratch my head is this:

 

They decided to execute this particular protest from the relative safety of their VEHICLES! Those who got out of their cars to walk around while waving flags and carrying their guns, you can see in the photos that a bunch of them were wearing masks. 

 

In other words: It's basically a protest using social distancing by staying in their VEHICLES to protest actual social distancing measures.  

 

Gotta admit... this makes me scratch my head in wonder.

 

Well, yeah ... a lot to wonder about ... but who is supporting and organizing these protests?

 

And in the other side of things is this:

https://gothamist.com/news/dispatch-morgue-truck-worker-coronavirus-covid-nyc

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello everyone. Back for a minute. I know of 7 people who have C19 and 2 on quarantine who do not have it yet. Scary stuff for sure. I have my fears, but choose to keep my coping mechanisms intact. I thought I would share this info as it may be of interest. All of these people except for one takes it very seriously... that one outlier is a 19 year old with a 2 year old daughter. They are the ones quarantined who don't have it yet. No one is invincible and I hope she gets that into her thick skull... hopefully unscathed. They are very close family and it concerns me to the point where I lose sleep at night. Be safe everyone.

 

To note: None of them have died. I do have a 68 year old aunt who was on oxygen because of it and it was awful for her (heavy smoker). One was an 85 year old who tested positive with no symptoms. The other was an elderly man which has resulted in the afformentioned quarantines. They were the only three who had the test and tested positive as far as I know from the amount I mentioned - the others are pretty reliable and had direct contact... two of them medical professionals.

Be good my friend. Stay safe and well. My best to you and yours.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Well, yeah ... a lot to wonder about ... but who is supporting and organizing these protests?

And in the other side of things is this:
https://gothamist.com/news/dispatch-morgue-truck-worker-coronavirus-covid-nyc

 

Those 53 foot reefer units used to carry food. 

 

 

The protests are Right Wing Led. 

 

This crisis should be something that unites but what it has done is... perhaps... shine a light on just how enormous the canyon of political division that exists, and its getting wider by the second.   

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The protests are Right Wing Led.

 

 

Yes, I know ... was a rhetorical question. They are paid for and led by far right wing extremist organizations, and, imo, at the behest of the president. The underlying motive is wholly political and has nothing to do with COVID-19 and the shutdowns. Those are just the ‘excuse’.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Yes, I know ... was a rhetorical question. They are paid for and led by far right wing extremist organizations, and, imo, at the behest of the president. The underlying motive is wholly political and has nothing to do with COVID-19 and the shutdowns. Those are just the ‘excuse’.

And I agree, this crisis should unite, but for me, this is no longer a ‘fight’ between R and D, it’s a fight between right and wrong, good and evil. But you do see unity forming between states. There are alignments that cross the political divide, because it’s no longer politics that divides us. Imo.

 

It did warm my heart a little to see Ohio and Indiana join Illinois, Michigan, Minnesota, Wisconsin and Kentucky. 

 

The Governors have no choice but to fill the void. 

 

The people inside everyone of those states though. Not so much. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Yup, it's all dependent on data collection (testing) and open reporting (science writing). We'd also all live a lot longer if partisan politics took a vacation.

 

I'm holding my breath. Although by doing so one misses out on some pretty interesting things.

 

https://www.sciencefocus.com/planet-earth/are-we-really-breathing-caesars-last-breath/

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am looking in vain for a simple statistic: how many Americans died of any causes at all yesterday, or the day before, or the day before that.

 

We see numbers of COVID deaths, but it's understood that this is a shaky number, in part because anyone known to have the virus gets counted without regard to other factors, while conversely some people who die never were tested and aren't counted in the totals.

 

But we know that, seasonally, somewhere in the range of 7,000 or 8,000 people die here each day.  Did 8,000 die yesterday and we're calling the wrong number of COVID deaths? Is it 10,000? 11 or 12? I don't know, and I want to. It would give some validation to the numbers we do see.

 

The other number I want to see, won't be known for a year or two. After the pandemic passes, will the daily death rate drop to the 6,500 range? That would really confirm our understanding that to a large degree the pandemic was mainly playing the role of grim reaper a little earlier than usual.

 

I don't mean to assign any value judgements to these questions. I just want hard data for us to think about. It's frustrating to be without - and as I said, part of the useful data won't be here during the period we have to made decisions. But it will be fair to look back, and learn for the next time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

I am looking in vain for a simple statistic: how many Americans died of any causes at all yesterday, or the day before, or the day before that.

 

We see numbers of COVID deaths, but it's understood that this is a shaky number, in part because anyone known to have the virus gets counted without regard to other factors, while conversely some people who die never were tested and aren't counted in the totals.

 

But we know that, seasonally, somewhere in the range of 7,000 or 8,000 people die here each day.  Did 8,000 die yesterday and we're calling the wrong number of COVID deaths? Is it 10,000? 11 or 12? I don't know, and I want to. It would give some validation to the numbers we do see.

 

The other number I want to see, won't be known for a year or two. After the pandemic passes, will the daily death rate drop to the 6,500 range? That would really confirm our understanding that to a large degree the pandemic was mainly playing the role of grim reaper a little earlier than usual.

 

I don't mean to assign any value judgements to these questions. I just want hard data for us to think about. It's frustrating to be without - and as I said, part of the useful data won't be here during the period we have to made decisions. But it will be fair to look back, and learn for the next time.

 

Here's the data compilation from 2017.

 

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/deaths.htm

 

This talks about the delta for 2018.

 

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/products/databriefs/db355.htm

 

This talks about decline in cancer death rates entering 2020:

 

https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/annual-report-nation-cancer-death-rates-continue-decline-2020

 

More from the NIH, circa 2017.

 

https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/study-finds-premature-death-rates-diverge-united-states-race-ethnicity

 

So the tendencies seem to indicate most other disease-related deaths are about the same; perhaps declining slightly.

 

COVID-19 co-morbidities probably account for some (maybe a lot) of the current growth; but that also correlates with the supersaturation of the ICU's and ER's, plus the number of victims who don't get any care at all, perhaps dying in their homes.

 

I will make a value judgement; the ball has been seriously dropped here. We'll be living and dying with the fallout from this for a long time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ah, well. Good luck with that.

Well, that kind of points up my unease. Reliable aggregate data doesn't seem to be getting out, probably because nobody actually collects the data on a daily basis, normally. And yet, we seem to expect to rely on the Covid daily numbers.

 

I feel better when data can be cross-checked. Being able to calculate a number two different ways helps.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Well, that kind of points up my unease. Reliable aggregate data doesn't seem to be getting out, probably because nobody actually collects the data on a daily basis, normally. And yet, we seem to expect to rely on the Covid daily numbers.

 

I feel better when data can be cross-checked. Being able to calculate a number two different ways helps.

If there is real-time monitoring taking place, it's not going to be made public for some time, given the current leadership's valuation and oversight of science. Maybe these blocs of states joining together in regional alliances will produce a better picture. I don't know.

 

In my opinion.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

I am looking in vain for a simple statistic: how many Americans died of any causes at all yesterday, or the day before, or the day before that.

 

We see numbers of COVID deaths, but it's understood that this is a shaky number, in part because anyone known to have the virus gets counted without regard to other factors, while conversely some people who die never were tested and aren't counted in the totals.

 

But we know that, seasonally, somewhere in the range of 7,000 or 8,000 people die here each day.  Did 8,000 die yesterday and we're calling the wrong number of COVID deaths? Is it 10,000? 11 or 12? I don't know, and I want to. It would give some validation to the numbers we do see.

 

The other number I want to see, won't be known for a year or two. After the pandemic passes, will the daily death rate drop to the 6,500 range? That would really confirm our understanding that to a large degree the pandemic was mainly playing the role of grim reaper a little earlier than usual.

 

I don't mean to assign any value judgements to these questions. I just want hard data for us to think about. It's frustrating to be without - and as I said, part of the useful data won't be here during the period we have to made decisions. But it will be fair to look back, and learn for the next time.

How about this?  https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/index.htm

 

It's weekly not daily, but does show all deaths.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 Share

Featured Video

×
×
  • Create New...