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2020 Presidential Election


PseudoSABR
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I'm not sure how you can duck racism in this climate. Our immigration/border policies, the Muslim travel ban, the ugly attacks on women of color. This isn't acceptable and, while it might not be fun for white folks to hear, it's what is happening. We have a racist white supremacist sitting in the White House. That's the current reality. 

Exactly. There's plenty of overlap between policy and the morality argument. And if he's truly going with this as his election strategy, there will be a lot more to come.  There's also the massive corruption all around him in his cabinet.

Edited by howeda7
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I don't know that I buy Trump is a racist or a white supremacist. I definitely think he enables a contingent of his supporters who are and that is terrible and wrong. His ugly attacks are certainly not limited to women of color. Doesn't excuse his behavior in my book, just makes him not a nice person.

I think we need to stop pretending that's a meaningful distinction. What's the difference if he "really believes" the things he says and does if he still says and does them?

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This is why they need to focus on policy. They've thrown out healthcare as a basic human right and different variations on a new green deal. That all sounds nice, but they have yet to articulate how these plans will actually work. In doing that, they've alienated a lot of Americans. THIS is what they desperately need to turn their focus to.

....Instead they keep stepping on the same rake and right now Trump is just toying with them. If I'm you I am hoping some new candidate emerges out of the blue because this field is an atrocity. None of these candidates has what it takes

I agree on healthcare. Because while the Dems have different plans (and Sanders/Warren's plan is not what we need), the GOP has no plan. Their plan was "Repeal Obamacare!" but no plan for what comes after. They'll be the dog that caught the car. And they're getting awfully close to catching it.

Edited by howeda7
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It would be nice if the candidates paid more attention to what is perhaps the most dire issue of all; we are a pot of lobsters being boiled alive. How did that turn out for the lobster?

This is true. But how do you call it out, when the media is complicit in it?

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I'm not sure how you can duck racism in this climate. Our immigration/border policies, the Muslim travel ban, the ugly attacks on women of color. This isn't acceptable and, while it might not be fun for white folks to hear, it's what is happening. We have a racist white supremacist sitting in the White House. That's the current reality. 

 

The border/immigration polices are not based in race. It's about a mass migration of people who are coming to our border in astronomical numbers.  These numbers are compounding at a rate where a) we cannot process these people and B) we cannot absorb them.  This has absolutely nothing to do with race.  If they were English, Dutch, Italian or whatever country you want to name came rushing the border by the thousands do you seriously think Trump wouldn't be STRONGLY against it?  

 

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It would be nice if the candidates paid more attention to what is perhaps the most dire issue of all; we are a pot of lobsters being boiled alive. How did that turn out for the lobster?

I am sure someone didn't go hungry, so it isn't all gloom and doom

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I don't know that I buy Trump is a racist or a white supremacist. I definitely think he enables a contingent of his supporters who are and that is terrible and wrong. His ugly attacks are certainly not limited to women of color. Doesn't excuse his behavior in my book, just makes him not a nice person.

I don't think it really matters. The idea that he isn't racist but is just doing what is needed for his political life doesn't excuse his racist actions. 

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I don't know that I buy Trump is a racist or a white supremacist. I definitely think he enables a contingent of his supporters who are and that is terrible and wrong. His ugly attacks are certainly not limited to women of color. Doesn't excuse his behavior in my book, just makes him not a nice person.

I think it's about how we define racism.  I think for some people racism means to actively hate another subgroup because of their race.  But for others a racist is someone who does and believes lots of smaller scales things that tend to diminish the standing of another racial group.  For these people, it doesn't matter if these beliefs and deeds are thought/done consciously and with intent or unconsciously/habitually.

 

For instance the "go back to your country" is probably not said because Trump hates women of color; rather, ask yourself, would he ever say that to a White American, like Bernie Sanders (who is probably further left than the Squad)? And if not, what other distinction can there be other than some element of racism. 

Edited by PseudoSABR
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So? The administrators in my school district got together and told all of us teachers not to show the Trump inauguration. The Obama election was treated like the first lunar landing.

I wasn't outraged. Why is this such a big deal to you?

Not a fan of censorship even by private parties, especially when the rationale is totally bunk.  

 

Obama's election was historic . . . 

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Not a fan of censorship even by private parties, especially when the rationale is totally bunk.  

 

Obama's election was historic . . .

 

It most certainly was, but what if some administrator directed his staff not to tune into Obama's inauguration?

 

The "private censor" applied in my district didn't apply to me. I played Trump's inauguration

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It most certainly was, but what if some administrator directed his staff not to tune into Obama's inauguration?

The "private censor" applied in my district didn't apply to me. I played Trump's inauguration

But Trump's inauguration had no unique historical value, and his rhetoric was divisive (unlike Obama's). 

 

And I think of airwaves, and broadcasting in general, as public goods, where censorship of an ideology on a non-political channel/station shouldn't be tolerated. 

Edited by PseudoSABR
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But Trump's inauguration had no unique historical value, and his rhetoric was divisive (unlike Obama's). 

 

 

So? George W Bush had no historical value either but the administration in my district didn't insist we not show his inauguration.

 

This I HATE TRUMP hysteria is historical and unique.

 

 

It's actually fascinating to watch

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I don't know SABR. If I worked in a place that told me not to show Elizabeth Warren's inauguration to my students I would have none of it just the same. The fact that administration of a school district (not all) took it upon themselves to email blast its teachers directing them not to show the Trump inauguration is absurd. They are in essence denying students their right to see it. This stuff happens every four years and I had lessons centered around it.

 

This kind of brazen imposition on everyone's freedom that has become all too typical and it's widely accepted. I know some people viewed Trump's inauguration tantamount to a KKK rally, but that's their own paranoia getting the better of them. I don't need liberal minds turning into the morality police and shutting down what I can or can't watch. This takes me back to the actions of the "moral majority" of the 80s who assumed they knew what was right for everyone. It's become almost the same thing

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I think it's about how we define racism.  I think for some people racism means to actively hate another subgroup because of their race.  But for others a racist is someone who does and believes lots of smaller scales things that tend to diminish the standing of another racial group.  For these people, it doesn't matter if these beliefs and deeds are thought/done consciously and with intent or unconsciously/habitually.

 

For instance the "go back to your country" is probably not said because Trump hates women of color; rather, ask yourself, would he ever say that to a White American, like Bernie Sanders (who is probably further left than the Squad)? And if not, what other distinction can there be other than some element of racism. 

 

I know you didn't state I was excusing his behavior, but others have insinuated as such and I just wanted to first say I am in no way excusing his behavior. I think it is entirely atrocious. I still don't believe it's racism so much as a schoolyard bully. He just picks the low hanging insults. I guess it doesn't really matter so I should just drop it, but I think sometimes words lose their value when they are over-applied. 

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I know you didn't state I was excusing his behavior, but others have insinuated as such and I just wanted to first say I am in no way excusing his behavior. I think it is entirely atrocious. I still don't believe it's racism so much as a schoolyard bully. He just picks the low hanging insults. I guess it doesn't really matter so I should just drop it, but I think sometimes words lose their value when they are over-applied.

 

I’d say you are applying this principle of logic.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principle_of_charity

Edited by Craig Arko
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I don't know SABR. If I worked in a place that told me not to show Elizabeth Warren's inauguration to my students I would have none of it just the same. The fact that administration of a school district (not all) took it upon themselves to email blast its teachers directing them not to show the Trump inauguration is absurd. They are in essence denying students their right to see it. This stuff happens every four years and I had lessons centered around it.

This kind of brazen imposition on everyone's freedom that has become all too typical and it's widely accepted. I know some people viewed Trump's inauguration tantamount to a KKK rally, but that's their own paranoia getting the better of them. I don't need liberal minds turning into the morality police and shutting down what I can or can't watch. This takes me back to the actions of the "moral majority" of the 80s who assumed they knew what was right for everyone. It's become almost the same thing

Look, I don't think inaugurations generally have much education value, but I can understand why some showed Obama's given the historic context.

 

As for Trump, it doesn't have to do with hate, it's that the way he OFTEN speaks is not appropriate for children.  He literally made fun of people with mental disabilities, among so many other things. Your refusal to even acknowledge Trump's obvious inappropriateness makes me once again believe that you can't have an honest conversation about the man.  Peace out.

Edited by PseudoSABR
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I know you didn't state I was excusing his behavior, but others have insinuated as such and I just wanted to first say I am in no way excusing his behavior. I think it is entirely atrocious. I still don't believe it's racism so much as a schoolyard bully. He just picks the low hanging insults. I guess it doesn't really matter so I should just drop it, but I think sometimes words lose their value when they are over-applied. 

I know you didn't excuse his behavior.  But when we gloss over attacks with racial over tones, we allow them to continue.  Calling Trump a school yard bully is akin to rephrasing his "grab them by the ...." as locker room talk.  Sometimes a spade is a spade.   If we are hearing the word racist a lot more, it's because certain people are willing to express their racist opinions given the political climate. 

 

And given how triggered conservatives get over the word racist, it doesn't seem to have lost any of its charge.

 

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Look, I don't think inaugurations generally have much education value, but I can understand why some showed Obama's given the historic context.

 

As for Trump, it doesn't have to do with hate, it's that the way he OFTEN speaks is not appropriate for children.  He literally made fun of people with mental disabilities, among so many other things. Your refusal to even acknowledge Trump's obvious inappropriateness makes me once again believe that you can't have an honest conversation about the man.  Peace out.

I acknowledge Trump's "inappropriateness" 

 

Now what?

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I know you didn't excuse his behavior.  But when we gloss over attacks with racial over tones, we allow them to continue.  Calling Trump a school yard bully is akin to rephrasing his "grab them by the ...." as locker room talk.  Sometimes a spade is a spade.   If we are hearing the word racist a lot more, it's because certain people are willing to express their racist opinions given the political climate. 

 

And given how triggered conservatives get over the word racist, it doesn't seem to have lost any of its charge.

 

I wouldn't say I'm triggered over it. I just think words matter. I guess maybe our distinguishing difference is what someone else previously said I believe you can do/say racist things without necessarily being a racist. It just makes you some combination of unaware, ignorant, or stupid. Heavens knows I have done things that I ought not, but I don't think that makes me racist. I can understand though if you think doing/saying things that are perceived as racist means you are racist. It feels like we are splitting hairs here though so I'll bow out as we both generally agree his attacks are entirely unwarranted and unnecessary. 

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I wouldn't say I'm triggered over it. I just think words matter. I guess maybe our distinguishing difference is what someone else previously said I believe you can do/say racist things without necessarily being a racist. It just makes you some combination of unaware, ignorant, or stupid. Heavens knows I have done things that I ought not, but I don't think that makes me racist. I can understand though if you think doing/saying things that are perceived as racist means you are racist. It feels like we are splitting hairs here though so I'll bow out as we both generally agree his attacks are entirely unwarranted and unnecessary. 

I didn't think you were triggered either, and I do think we are splitting hairs at this point.  I think we all try to admonish the behavior before the person, but at a certain point, that behavior accumulates into an aggregate whole, which I think is fair game to judge.

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