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twinssporto
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FO acquisitions, and a lack thereof, contributed significantly to the overall poor performance. 

What would you have done differently?

 

Hindsight is always 20/20. By far the best free agent SP choice was DeGrom but the overwhelming sentiment here was Darvish. I think it's fair to say that Cobb and Lynn were next in terms of support with Cobb probably being favored by the majority.

 

Would you really have signed Martinez (not that he would have signed here) with the presumed strength of the team being our young OF. 

 

They certainly could have done a better job with the BP but the national media felt we did well with the available FA budget. The only other choice would have been to trade Lewis / Kiriloff / Romero because those are the only prospects that would have moved the needle. We would have still been mediocre with considerably less elite talent on the horizon which would have the absolute worst move they could have made. So what should have they done. You can say things like they should have kept Sanchez but there was very little remorse here when he was let go. 

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I'm responding to your post that because the Twins had 90+ losses this justified you being triggered. When it was pointed out that the Twins weren't going to lose 90, you said 85 then. They didn't lose 85 either.

 

The Twins only dropped 7 games from last season. What really happened?

 

OPS+ 2017/2018: 104/95

ERA+ 2017/2018: 97/98

 

The pitching stayed roughly the same compared to the rest of the league and the hitting got a lot worse. We already know why the hitting got worse:

 

Buxton

Sano

Mauer

Dozier

Polanco

Castro

Morrison

 

Only one of those players was picked up during the offseason, and ZERO of us expected all of these players to take a nosedive (or be out, in Polanco's case).

 

The only person who can truly be blamed for 2018 is Molitor. It's his job to figure out how to get the best out of the players. This isn't the first year under Molitor that the hitting took an unexpected dive.

 

Molitor is the only person to be blamed? How about the players that performed poorly? They have no accountability? It's all the managers fault? I think Molitor has some accountability but we are talking about professional athletes, some of them very experienced. It's just a lot easier to blame the manger as opposed to the players were revere.

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Molitor is the only person to be blamed? How about the players that performed poorly? They have no accountability? It's all the managers fault? I think Molitor has some accountability but we are talking about professional athletes, some of them very experienced. It's just a lot easier to blame the manger as opposed to the players were revere.

 

I agree the players are responsible. But when it's most of the team? Managers (in any field) have to solve these types of problems.

Edited by Doomtints
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I agree the players are responsible. But when it's most of the team? Managers (in any field) have to solve these types of problems.

 

I agree. I just think fans tend to absolve players for their part. I see it as the player performed poorly and have primary responsibility and the manager was unable to correct their failure. They were too patient with Sano IMO. His approach sucked and there is n o excuse for a professional athlete to be in poor shape. However, before we are too tough on the organization, we should revisit the disdain many here had for the articles written criticizing Sano. 

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What would you have done differently?

 

Hindsight is always 20/20. By far the best free agent SP choice was DeGrom but the overwhelming sentiment here was Darvish. I think it's fair to say that Cobb and Lynn were next in terms of support with Cobb probably being favored by the majority.

 

Would you really have signed Martinez (not that he would have signed here) with the presumed strength of the team being our young OF.

  1. Hindsight is indeed a harsh standard, and I'm probably pretty far on the "get the process right and then trust it" spectrum in the first place, but at the end of the day you have to judge by results, and in 2018 more of their moves failed than succeeded, where moving the needle is involved. It plants a shadow of doubt/disappointment about the process, in my mind.
  2. Jacob DeGrom? He can't be a free agent until 2021. Did you mean someone else?
  3. J.D. Martinez could have taken over the Robbie Grossman role - someone who best profiles as a DH but you let play in the outfield to keep him engaged and/or when need arises. In that light he'd have been a huge upgrade. Yes, it puts more pressure on Sano or others to stay at their defensive positions, since 1B was occupado, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. They kind of tried that with LoMo, and you can call that hindsight, or you can call that not aiming high since he's even more limited defensively than Martinez and didn't have the upside at bat. Those who were on the record wanting Martinez get credit now - not that we particularly encourage score-keeping on the random TD forum discussion.
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  1. Hindsight is indeed a harsh standard, and I'm probably pretty far on the "get the process right and then trust it" spectrum in the first place, but at the end of the day you have to judge by results, and in 2018 more of their moves failed than succeeded, where moving the needle is involved. It plants a shadow of doubt/disappointment about the process, in my mind.
  2. Jacob DeGrom? He can't be a free agent until 2021. Did you mean someone else?
  3. J.D. Martinez could have taken over the Robbie Grossman role - someone who best profiles as a DH but you let play in the outfield to keep him engaged and/or when need arises. In that light he'd have been a huge upgrade. Yes, it puts more pressure on Sano or others to stay at their defensive positions, since 1B was occupado, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. They kind of tried that with LoMo, and you can call that hindsight, or you can call that not aiming high since he's even more limited defensively than Martinez and didn't have the upside at bat. Those who were on the record wanting Martinez get credit now - not that we particularly encourage score-keeping on the random TD forum discussion.

 

 

Brain Fart ... I meant to suggest Arrieta was the best choice in hindsight.

 

You have a point about Martinez as a DH but I would think he would have been less inclined to come here knowing he would primarily DH. Regardless, the point was that there were other areas where I think we can all agree were more desperately in need of upgrades. Therefore, you probably don't spend $125M on a DH unless you are NY/BOS/LA , especially the way benches are being utilized now.

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I read above the Twins have 50 million to spend next year and fact is they don't if they are not competitive team. If they put team out there that they have now from their roster less Mauer, Santana , and Forsythe for this coming season what will there draw be for fans to come watch them. Their leading stars now are Rosario, Berios, and toss up Kepler, Cave, and Gibson. Sano and Buxton will need to prove themselves next year and that will take time win fans back. Season ticket sales are going to drop significantly I predict this coming year. So getting back to money available to spend if the Twins drop say from their 2.4 million attendance to say 1.7 attendance your looking at least 700,000 drop in attendance which would probably mean at least 35 million drop in revenue. So you see now were looking at only 15 million to spend and we have lot of holes to fill in this team and no sure star power to attract people to baseball. Also poorer team will have effect on tv revenue too. Twins ownership will want to keep their return the same so you see money may not be there for what most fans think. If I have learned anything over the years is ownership never takes less it either comes out the players return or the final product the fans see on the field. Baseball ownership is always paid and they like to have high rates of return and also to have their ownership value inflate as well very rarely does ownership ever use there own money to supplement the business.

The fact is were in second time of rebuilding because we have had failure to develop high prospects into major league all stars like they were sold to us when they were prospects in the minors. The plans that were made two years ago and even before that have failed with this group of players. Were heading into next year with hope these players can turn it around or were going to see plan change to the next wave of players to come from our prospect list. This means we will see the trading of number of this team by next years trading dead line if no progress has been made. We could see Gibson, Ordorizzi, Pineda, Castro, and several other players traded for future prospects before next season is done. The only thing that will keep them from having season of disastrous losses is the this division is so weak and with unbalanced schedule they are certain to stay away from this. I will just be curios what public opinion will be if my prediction comes true from above because I don't think most MN believe this team is that bad.

Attendance this year was only 1.9 mil - a Target Field low, not 2.4 mil. It hasn’t been that high since 2013. Other than going up slightly from 2016 to 2017, it’s gone down steadily since the stadium opened. Losing all the time will do that. But MLB as a whole has been shedding fans at a steady pace the last decade or so. I could see the Twins losing maybe another 100 K in 2019. They certainly aren’t going to drop 700 K in one year. So, maybe $ 5 mil in less revenue.

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I would have picked up Arrieta without hesitation. The contract he signed is team-friendly and ingenious. The Twins have better hitting and better defense than the Phillies and Arrieta would have had a better year in a Twins uniform. 

 

The Phillies only won three more games than the Twins, even after the talent dump at the trade deadline. With Arrieta I think the Twins repeat as 85-game winners even with the nosedive the hitting took.

 

But ... that ship has sailed.

Edited by Doomtints
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I'm responding to your post that because the Twins had 90+ losses this justified you being triggered. When it was pointed out that the Twins weren't going to lose 90, you said 85 then. They didn't lose 85 either.

 

The Twins only dropped 7 games from last season. What really happened?

 

OPS+ 2017/2018: 104/95

ERA+ 2017/2018: 97/98

 

The pitching stayed roughly the same compared to the rest of the league and the hitting got a lot worse. We already know why the hitting got worse:

 

Buxton

Sano

Mauer

Dozier

Polanco

Castro

Morrison

 

Only one of those players was picked up during the offseason, and ZERO of us expected all of these players to take a nosedive (or be out, in Polanco's case).

 

The only person who can truly be blamed for 2018 is Molitor. It's his job to figure out how to get the best out of the players. This isn't the first year under Molitor that the hitting took an unexpected dive.

I guess you didn't read it then....

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Im responding to the comment buried back in the thread that the Twins leave players in the minors too long. Not only that but they are content to send Sano and Buxton back to the minors when there is no logical reason.  Did the number 1 overall pick from 2016 get any time with the big club?

I bet the off season marketing plan will consist of Sano, Buxton, and Royce Lewis arriving all at one time in a rebirth of the old and the baptism of the new as the Twins go all in for the 2019 World Series.

They will have a great January and February and then the season will start.

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What would you have done differently?

 

Hindsight is always 20/20. By far the best free agent SP choice was DeGrom but the overwhelming sentiment here was Darvish. I think it's fair to say that Cobb and Lynn were next in terms of support with Cobb probably being favored by the majority.

 

Would you really have signed Martinez (not that he would have signed here) with the presumed strength of the team being our young OF. 

 

They certainly could have done a better job with the BP but the national media felt we did well with the available FA budget. The only other choice would have been to trade Lewis / Kiriloff / Romero because those are the only prospects that would have moved the needle. We would have still been mediocre with considerably less elite talent on the horizon which would have the absolute worst move they could have made. So what should have they done. You can say things like they should have kept Sanchez but there was very little remorse here when he was let go. 

We can start with that presumed strength. I'm still firmly on the Buxton bandwagon, but he's dealt with injuries on a regular basis. The 4th OFer to start the season was Zach Granite. Not a great situation. 

 

I agree the bullpen could've been addressed in a more meaningful way. They brought in "guys," but Zach Duke and Fernando Rodney weren't going to push the pen forward. I was on board with the Reed signing and it hasn't worked out. 

 

Neither of those areas would've required giving up top prospects to plug the holes with better talent. 

 

As for the starting pitching, there were plenty of question marks surrounding both Lynn and Odorizzi when they were brought in. We found out first hand why. The Twins weren't limited to only FA pitchers, as evidenced by the trade for Odorizzi.

 

Poor drafting and development has put the Twins in a situation where they either have to overpay for a front end starter or give up top prospects to acquire one. That's the reality of the pitching situation right now. I'm as excited as anybody for Kiriloff and Lewis, and I certainly would prefer that they stay in the system, but that would require this organization to spend real $$ to bring in another arm and I just don't have faith in them doing that. 

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We can start with that presumed strength. I'm still firmly on the Buxton bandwagon, but he's dealt with injuries on a regular basis. The 4th OFer to start the season was Zach Granite. Not a great situation. 

 

I agree the bullpen could've been addressed in a more meaningful way. They brought in "guys," but Zach Duke and Fernando Rodney weren't going to push the pen forward. I was on board with the Reed signing and it hasn't worked out. 

 

Neither of those areas would've required giving up top prospects to plug the holes with better talent. 

 

As for the starting pitching, there were plenty of question marks surrounding both Lynn and Odorizzi when they were brought in. We found out first hand why. The Twins weren't limited to only FA pitchers, as evidenced by the trade for Odorizzi.

 

Poor drafting and development has put the Twins in a situation where they either have to overpay for a front end starter or give up top prospects to acquire one. That's the reality of the pitching situation right now. I'm as excited as anybody for Kiriloff and Lewis, and I certainly would prefer that they stay in the system, but that would require this organization to spend real $$ to bring in another arm and I just don't have faith in them doing that. 

 

I don't have any real disagreement with any of this post but it don't find an answer to the question of what you would have done differently that would have resulted in a contender.

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I don't have any real disagreement with any of this post but it don't find an answer to the question of what you would have done differently that would have resulted in a contender.

Define contender. 

 

If:

Lynn isn't atrocious for all of April

Rodney doesn't lead baseball in blown saves

Morrison isn't a fixture in the lineup despite being a black hole

Ryan LaMarre isn't getting extended playing time in CF

Addison Reed doesn't fall off a cliff

Jake Odorizzi isn't the 17' version some of us feared he would be

 

This team likely stays within striking distance of Cleveland. IMO contending for this team meant fighting for a playoff spot. If the goal was to match the level of a team like Houston this season that was never going to happen.  

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Define contender. 

 

If:

Lynn isn't atrocious for all of April

Rodney doesn't lead baseball in blown saves

Morrison isn't a fixture in the lineup despite being a black hole

Ryan LaMarre isn't getting extended playing time in CF

Addison Reed doesn't fall off a cliff

Jake Odorizzi isn't the 17' version some of us feared he would be

 

This team likely stays within striking distance of Cleveland. IMO contending for this team meant fighting for a playoff spot. If the goal was to match the level of a team like Houston this season that was never going to happen.  

 

I meant contend for the division. My previous posts throughout the year consistently point out we were not going to contend with Houston / Boston ? NY.  However, this distinction has little to do with the point I was trying to make.  Your stated "FO acquisitions, and a lack thereof, contributed significantly to the overall poor performance." It's easy to criticize after the season has played out. My question was what would you have done. All you have done is stated what you would not have done which is easy to do after you know that Morrison had a bad season as an example.

 

This team was dependent upon Sano / Buxton and perhaps Kepler improving as we hoped. That did not happen but you can't blame the organization for allowing it to play out. It's also not their fault that Polanco was suspended and Santana made absolutely no contribution. While I did not care for relying on Rodney, the additions they made were the pretty darn good on paper given the available budget. The only other choice was to trade away elite prospects because or "depth" was not going to garner the level of player necessary. That would have been the worst thing they could have done. We still would have been well out of contention and our best prospects gone. So, I ask again, what should they have done.

Edited by Major Leauge Ready
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Odorizza was worth 2.6 fWAR and had a 4.20 FIP. Yet somehow he is a big disappointment while Kyle Gibson is comeback player of the year with a 4.13 FIP and 2.8 fWAR.

 

Odo was worth three times what he got paid this year.

You keep posting fangraphs salary values and others (including myself) continue to show how ridiculous they are. Maybe they aren’t a valid tool?

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It's almost like that wasn't even the point of the post at all........because it wasn't.

exactly. The point is, he did better than many want to give him creidit for and he was paid relative peanuts in salary to do it.

 

It's also not a given that just cause some think a tool is ridiculous that I must agree. Group think isn't my strong suit. :-)

Edited by jimmer
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It's almost like that wasn't even the point of the post at all........because it wasn't.

 

Using WAR and FIP-or Fangraphs farcical dollar values—to argue Gibson and Odorizzi weren’t significantly different, wasn’t the point?

 

For the record, Gibson threw 30 more innings with an ERA over a run lower than Odorizzi.

 

They were not remotely similar in value.

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Using WAR and FIP-or Fangraphs farcical dollar values—to argue Gibson and Odorizzi weren’t significantly different, wasn’t the point?

 

For the record, Gibson threw 30 more innings with an ERA over a run lower than Odorizzi.

 

They were not remotely similar in value.

You didn't argue FIP was useless, or that you disagreed with the comparison in terms of production. You commented on the dollar value.....

 

I agree that Gibson was better, but that wasn't your discussion....

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You didn't argue FIP was useless, or that you disagreed with the comparison in terms of production. You commented on the dollar value.....

I agree that Gibson was better, but that wasn't your discussion....

That was Yarnivek’s post, I believe, not mine.

 

However, his point is valid, IMO. He disagreed with using Fangraph’s “dollar values” as a measure useful in comparing two pitchers.

 

And since we agree Gibson was better (much better IMO), what are we in disagreement about?

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I meant contend for the division. My previous posts throughout the year consistently point out we were not going to contend with Houston / Boston ? NY.  However, this distinction has little to do with the point I was trying to make.  Your stated "FO acquisitions, and a lack thereof, contributed significantly to the overall poor performance." It's easy to criticize after the season has played out. My question was what would you have done. All you have done is stated what you would not have done which is easy to do after you know that Morrison had a bad season as an example.

 

This team was dependent upon Sano / Buxton and perhaps Kepler improving as we hoped. That did not happen but you can't blame the organization for allowing it to play out. It's also not their fault that Polanco was suspended and Santana made absolutely no contribution. While I did not care for relying on Rodney, the additions they made were the pretty darn good on paper given the available budget. The only other choice was to trade away elite prospects because or "depth" was not going to garner the level of player necessary. That would have been the worst thing they could have done. We still would have been well out of contention and our best prospects gone. So, I ask again, what should they have done.

FO acquisitions - Almost everybody they brought in flopped. There was plenty of criticism regarding the talent level of the players brought in at the time of the moves, and it wasn't just from me. 

 

Lack thereof - There was no 4th OFer. No trusted backup catcher. No trusted relief arms in AAA or AA. No team that's serious about contending is starting Ryan LaMarre for any extended amount of time, or playing Bobby Wilson for half a season, or awarding innings to David Hale, Tyler Kinley, and Phil Hughes before entertaining the idea of turning to arms in their own minor league system. 

 

I'm not blaming the organization for relying on Buxton and Sano; that's been the direction from the time each was drafted. Their regression played a big role in this mess as well, but the FO isn't teflon here. Ervin getting hurt was a bummer but every team deals with injuries. IMO we shouldn't shrug and give the FO a pass because they brought in some "guys."

 

Aim above bargain level talent. Have a solid backup plan at important positions like CF, RP and C before the season starts. Addressing those needs doesn't require giving up elite talent. 

Edited by KirbyDome89
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FO acquisitions - Almost everybody they brought in flopped. There was plenty of criticism regarding the talent level of the players brought in at the time of the moves, and it wasn't just from me. 

 

Lack thereof - There was no 4th OFer. No trusted backup catcher. No trusted relief arms in AAA or AA. No team that's serious about contending is starting Ryan LaMarre for any extended amount of time, or playing Bobby Wilson for half a season, or awarding innings to David Hale, Tyler Kinley, and Phil Hughes before entertaining the idea of turning to arms in their own minor league system. 

 

I'm not blaming the organization for relying on Buxton and Sano; that's been the direction from the time each was drafted. Their regression played a big role in this mess as well, but the FO isn't teflon here. Ervin getting hurt was a bummer but every team deals with injuries. IMO we shouldn't shrug and give the FO a pass because they brought in some "guys."

 

Aim above bargain level talent. Have a solid backup plan at important positions like CF, RP and C before the season starts. Addressing those needs doesn't require giving up elite talent. 

 

For starters, the national (unbiased) had relatively high praise for the Twins off-season and many felt they had a legit shot at the central. IO also don't understand the no back-up catcher comment. Garver was the back-up. Did you mean they did have a back-up for the back-up?

 

I am sorry to keep repeating myself but you continue to use generalizations which is a long way from providing a tangible (SPECIFIC) solution which is the point.  Anyone can say the should have gotten an ace and a better bullpen, etc.  I agree with the bullpen BTW and we can come up with specific examples.  However, its not like they had $60M in available payroll to work with last winter. 

 

The 4th outfielder is a product of the organization liking Grossman more than TDers. I am not a Grossman fan but he is not a terrible option as a 4th outfielder. I would guess they also thought Granite or Wade would be up to fill that role at some point during the season. Regardless, the 4th outfielder is a long way down the list of the causes for this year's failure.

 

In case it's still not clear, I am asking what specific players you would have acquired.  No specificity is required if you think the solution would have been to trade prospects. The scenarios tossed around here to get great players for multiple C+ or even B- players is a fallacy. It would have cost us several of our very best prospects to land impact players given one big trade would have meant little and best case would have gotten us to 500 or a couple games above even had we acquired 2 or 3 impact players. That route would have been an absolute disaster given how the year played out with injury and poor play from Dozier, Sano, and Buxton.

Edited by Major Leauge Ready
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For starters, the national (unbiased) had relatively high praise for the Twins off-season and many felt they had a legit shot at the central. IO also don't understand the no back-up catcher comment. Garver was the back-up. Did you mean they did have a back-up for the back-up?

 

I am sorry to keep repeating myself but you continue to use generalizations which is a long way from providing a tangible (SPECIFIC) solution which is the point.  Anyone can say the should have gotten an ace and a better bullpen, etc.  I agree with the bullpen BTW and we can come up with specific examples.  However, its not like they had $60M in available payroll to work with last winter. 

 

The 4th outfielder is a product of the organization liking Grossman more than TDers. I am not a Grossman fan but he is not a terrible option as a 4th outfielder. I would guess they also thought Granite or Wade would be up to fill that role at some point during the season. Regardless, the 4th outfielder is a long way down the list of the causes for this year's failure.

 

In case it's still not clear, I am asking what specific players you would have acquired.  No specificity is required if you think the solution would have been to trade prospects. The scenarios tossed around here to get great players for multiple C+ or even B- players is a fallacy. It would have cost us several of our very best prospects to land impact players given one big trade would have meant little and best case would have gotten us to 500 or a couple games above even had we acquired 2 or 3 impact players. That route would have been an absolute disaster given how the year played out with injury and poor play from Dozier, Sano, and Buxton.

You are consistently against both signing high dollar free agents, and acquiring high value players through trade.

 

How do the Twins get better?

 

I bet neither the Milwaukee fans nor the front office regret acquiring Yelich last winter, even though it cost them their number one prospect (who, btw, put up a .199/.240/.338 line as a 24 yr old for Miami this year).

 

Yelich will be a Brewer for at least the next 3 seasons, and they won the NLC this year, coming off a season not unlike the Twins 2017. Furthermore, they didn't stop with that acquisition.

 

What they DIDN'T do was dabble around the edges, poke their little toe gingerly into the trade and/or free agent markets, and convince themselves that holding on to every prospect for dear life has some sort of guarantee of future success.

 

I think the biggest step the Minnesota Twins need to take as an organization is for everyone, from ownership on down, to stop viewing themselves as somehow disadvantaged, or "mid-market," or a place free agents don't want to go, or a team that needs to "draft and develop."

 

That's self defeating.

 

Get out there and play the game the way other teams are playing it, or sell the team to someone who will.

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You are consistently against both signing high dollar free agents, and acquiring high value players through trade.

 

How do the Twins get better?

 

I bet neither the Milwaukee fans nor the front office regret acquiring Yelich last winter, even though it cost them their number one prospect (who, btw, put up a .199/.240/.338 line as a 24 yr old for Miami this year).

 

Yelich will be a Brewer for at least the next 3 seasons, and they won the NLC this year, coming off a season not unlike the Twins 2017. Furthermore, they didn't stop with that acquisition.

 

What they DIDN'T do was dabble around the edges, poke their little toe gingerly into the trade and/or free agent markets, and convince themselves that holding on to every prospect for dear life has some sort of guarantee of future success.

 

I think the biggest step the Minnesota Twins need to take as an organization is for everyone, from ownership on down, to stop viewing themselves as somehow disadvantaged, or "mid-market," or a place free agents don't want to go, or a team that needs to "draft and develop."

 

That's self defeating.

 

Get out there and play the game the way other teams are playing it, or sell the team to someone who will.

Thank you Chief. Couldn't agree more. There always seems to be a "woe is me" mentality around discussions with this team. Can't take risks with big money players, because what if they become a sunk cost? Can't even think about the possibility of letting a prospect go because of a fantasy that they'll be a future star. It's exhausting.

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Thank you Chief. Couldn't agree more. There always seems to be a "woe is me" mentality around discussions with this team. Can't take risks with big money players, because what if they become a sunk cost? Can't even think about the possibility of letting a prospect go because of a fantasy that they'll be a future star. It's exhausting.

 

I think the small market mentality is certainly an issue with the fan base, I'm not sure about the front office though. They did chase Ohtani and Darvish last off season. They ended up stinking it up in free agency, but it wasn't for a lack of trying. At the very least there should be a lot of action this off season, they may make all the wrong moves again, but hey, maybe they won't. Either way, I liked the fact that last winter there was always a reason to be checking in here and at MLBTR.

 

But what I really am waiting for are the trades. They haven't really moved prospects yet, which I find odd considering they reeeeally don't seem to care for most of TR and Anthony's guys. Fingers crossed on my left hand that they start dealing some guys ASAP. Fingers crossed on my right hand that the guys they trade for work out.

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For starters, the national (unbiased) had relatively high praise for the Twins off-season and many felt they had a legit shot at the central. IO also don't understand the no back-up catcher comment. Garver was the back-up. Did you mean they did have a back-up for the back-up?

 

I am sorry to keep repeating myself but you continue to use generalizations which is a long way from providing a tangible (SPECIFIC) solution which is the point.  Anyone can say the should have gotten an ace and a better bullpen, etc.  I agree with the bullpen BTW and we can come up with specific examples.  However, its not like they had $60M in available payroll to work with last winter. 

 

The 4th outfielder is a product of the organization liking Grossman more than TDers. I am not a Grossman fan but he is not a terrible option as a 4th outfielder. I would guess they also thought Granite or Wade would be up to fill that role at some point during the season. Regardless, the 4th outfielder is a long way down the list of the causes for this year's failure.

 

In case it's still not clear, I am asking what specific players you would have acquired.  No specificity is required if you think the solution would have been to trade prospects. The scenarios tossed around here to get great players for multiple C+ or even B- players is a fallacy. It would have cost us several of our very best prospects to land impact players given one big trade would have meant little and best case would have gotten us to 500 or a couple games above even had we acquired 2 or 3 impact players. That route would have been an absolute disaster given how the year played out with injury and poor play from Dozier, Sano, and Buxton.

 

If Garver was a true back up catcher why was he evenly splitting duties with a journeyman like Wilson? They clearly didn't trust Garver to catch a bulk of the games, yet they entered the season with him as the backup. Wade had 0 major league experience and Granite wasn't good in his limited MLB time. That isn't a duo you want to count as insurance. 

 

Pull up the 40 man rosters for every team and take your pick of names to find a backup catcher, a 4th OFer, and relief arms. I can throw out names, you'll quibble with those, and the carousel will continue to turn. You have your specific solution. Roster a backup catcher you trust to actually catch. Roster a 4th OFer who you can trust to play if your oft injured CF deals with injuries. If you don't trust any of the young arms in the minors then aim higher than an erratic 41 year old reliever, a washed up starter, a rule 5 pick, and waiver wire fodder to get you through the early part of the season. 

 

NONE of those moves are about bringing in great players and NONE of them require sending away elite talent. I'm not sure how addressing team needs and finishing .500 would be more of a disaster than the current state of the roster. 

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