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stringer bell
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I never booed Derek Jeter.  I had never thought of him as the best player in baseball either.  He's been in the majors for a long time and had a lot of success, no matter how it is measured.  Upon reaching 3000 hits, it has become certain that he will be elected to the Hall of Fame.  The question, to me, is whether he will get the highest percentage of votes or perhaps if he will be elected unanimously.

 

Does Jeter deserve to be in the Hall of Fame?  I don't think anyone seriously disputes that.  He has over 3400 hits, five rings, five Silver Sluggers, and five Gold Gloves. His durability has resulted in counting numbers that are top of the class.  He has been a model citizen under the microscope of the New York media.  There is no hint of PEDs or illicit drugs.  No one has mustered a harsh word against the man. 

 

Defensive metrics show a less-than-great defender.  Jeter never won the MVP, but he has been in the Top Ten in that balloting eight times. 

 

To top off all the other honors, Jeter has been at his best in post-season.  He's won several post-season honors and seems to have made a lot of key plays when the spotlight was the brightest. 

 

If I had a vote for the Hall of Fame, I'd vote for Jeter.  I really can't see a reason not to vote for him, except for spite.  He's had a great career and deserves the accolades.  

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I am one of those people who think first ballot election belongs to the truly elite. In my lifetime--that's Mays, Mantle, Aaron, Clemente, Brooks (maybe), Schmidt,Morgan (maybe), Ozzie Smith, etc. Pitchers like Spahn, Gibson, Maddox, etc.

 

Like Cal JR, I think Jeter falls below (slightly) that level. (no MVPs, average at best defense). I wouldn't vote for him in his first year. Will he get in, yes. I would vote for him 2nd year.

 

This is just me

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I am one of those people who think first ballot election belongs to the truly elite. In my lifetime--that's Mays, Mantle, Aaron, Clemente, Brooks (maybe), Schmidt,Morgan (maybe), Ozzie Smith, etc. Pitchers like Spahn, Gibson, Maddox, etc.

 

Like Cal JR, I think Jeter falls below (slightly) that level. (no MVPs, average at best defense). I wouldn't vote for him in his first year. Will he get in, yes. I would vote for him 2nd year.

 

This is just me

You are entitled to your opinion, but I feel he either deserves to be in or he doesn't.  I just don't get this "undeserving of first ballot" election discussion.  Unfortunately, there is a block of voters that hold the same reservation.  He is clearly a Hall of Famer, but he will not be a unanimous selection.  With the logjam of potential candidates piling up due to PED scandals, I doubt unanimous election will ever happen.

Edited by Physics Guy
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To clarify, there are situations I wouldn't vote for a player and change my mind later, but it wouldn't be for a guy like Jeter.  With the number of highly qualified players that are eligible to get in and the limit on the number of guys you can vote for, I understand the dilemna the voters have now.  Something is going to have to change with the voting.  Understand that this comes from a guy who has never been a big fan of Jeter's, I just have a hard time disputing his candidacy.

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I think Jeter is a HOFer based on the way baseball picks HOFers. Unanimous? There's never been such a player.

 

Now what if A-Rod was clean and not a jerk? Or Babe Ruth just had his career recently?

 

Unanimous? That means you have to be adored by all and on the field, above anyone you played against in your era, and perhaps, across many areas. That's likely the criteria you have to fall into.

 

Jeter, never once was MVP and only in 1998 and 1999 did he finish in the top 5 in WAR. He never led the league, and only led his team a hanful of times in, AVG, OBP, SLG, OPS, SB, etc.

 

He played a lot of games on a lot of good teams. HOFer? Absolutely!! Unaniumous? He didn't even win an MVP while he played the game.

 

I think he falls into the longevity category. Al Kaline to Eddie Murray types. Kaline did have a batting Title and legitimately won GGs.

 

If you're picking top players overall, does he get picked in the top 100? How about at his position?

 

Of the guys with longevity: Cal Ripken, Honus Wagner, A-Rod, Arky Vaughn, Ernie Banks, and Barry Larkin? Would you take Jeter over any or all of them?

 

How about during his own time period, of guys without longevity.

Would you take Jeter in his prime over (his best 5 seasons) over these guys' best 5 seasons?

 

a) Nomar Garciaparra?

B) Miguel Tejada?

c) Troy Tulowitzki?

d) Jose Reyes?

e) Hanley Ramirez?

 

That's another angle. Season sample sizes. How often was Jeter the best player on his team or at his position in the years he played?

 

Is it better to have 3,400 hits but not leading any major category and zero MVPs, OR hit above .350 two times OR win 2 MVPs but not get the '3000' hits?

 

I think to be unanimous, you probably have to be the the undisputed best player at some point during your career in baseball, even if only for 1-2 seasons.

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First ballot for sure. He will get upper 90% vote totals and you never know, maybe the the baseball writers will be in a good mood that day and give him the elusive 100%.

 

The man was the face of baseball the last 15+ years and no offense to Justin Morneau, Jeter should have won the MVP in 2006.

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Jeter is no-doubt a hall of famer. No one ever gets 100% of the vote. Hasn't happened, and won't happen unless changes happen to the hall voting process or procedures.

 

I don't think there's an argument out there that he doesn't belong in the hall. If there is, I'm waiting.

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I think that at least one voter will send in a blank ballot to protest the system, and there'll probably a couple wing nut voters (like the guy that didn't vote for Rickey Henderson, or the guy that didn't vote for Maddux), so despite all of Jeter's Yankee-ness, he probably will have to happy with mid 90% of the votes

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I don't really have a problem with there being some guys who are First Ballot HOFers and then all the rest.  It's not that I don't think some players have gotten in deservedly, but I do like the idea that players like Mays, Aaron, Spahn and Seaver were of a different class than Andre Dawson and Roberto Alomar.

 

I do think that the unwritten policy of no unanimous selections is a bit childish, but don't mistake this inaction for a slight on Jeter, Maddux or anyone else.  The guys who aren't voting for these guys on the first ballot are doing so simply because they won't allow ANYONE to be unanimous if Ted Williams and Babe Ruth weren't unanimous.  Someday these guys will be dead and perhaps the practice will be over, but more likely they will indocterined younger voters to this strange jealous slight.

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Here's a question related to Jeter's HOF candidacy:

 

There were a few voters who refused to vote for Craig Biggio due to steroid suspicions.   There's never been any solid proof that he used PED's, but their argument was basically, "He played with on a team with guys we know used, so we know it was going on around him, and we can't be sure he didn't use, so we're not going to vote for him." 

 

Doesn't that same reasoning apply to Jeter?  Will any of these voters withhold their vote for him on that basis?

 

To be clear, I'm not saying they should, I think it's a silly argument.  I'm just curious as to whether any of them will actually do it.

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Barry Bonds has first ballot hall of fame numbers and he may never get in, despite being elligible. It's one thing to keep Pete Rose out, who's been banned by baseball.

 

I don't want to jack this thread, but all this talk of Jeter being a HOFer while also not mentioning another guy who is clearly HOF worthy, made me think a bit.

 

Jeter belongs in the hall. So does Bonds. Steroids or no steroids.

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Barry Bonds has first ballot hall of fame numbers and he may never get in, despite being elligible. It's one thing to keep Pete Rose out, who's been banned by baseball.

 

I don't want to jack this thread, but all this talk of Jeter being a HOFer while also not mentioning another guy who is clearly HOF worthy, made me think a bit.

 

Jeter belongs in the hall. So does Bonds. Steroids or no steroids.

 

Just because it's so ridiculous, here are Barry Bonds' Triple Slash lines for 2001-2004 MVP seasons:

 

.328 / .515 / .863

.370 / .582 / .799

.341 / .529 / .749

.362 / .609 / .812

 

Yeah, pretty darn good.

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Just because it's so ridiculous, here are Barry Bonds' Triple Slash lines for 2001-2004 MVP seasons:

 

.328 / .515 / .863

.370 / .582 / .799

.341 / .529 / .749

.362 / .609 / .812

 

Yeah, pretty darn good.

 

Right, but of course the point is we wouldn't know what those numbers would have been had he not been cheating. 

 

Would they still have been good? Probably. But it's on him, not the fans or the voters, that we'll never know.  Perhaps without steroids he struggles in 1999, the Giants don't want to pay a clubhoust cancer the requist money, he ends up signing with a crappy team and he plays out his last couple of years in obscurity.

 

These guys knew how tradition rich this game was.  Don't think for a second that it didn't cross their mind that if they got caught, they wouldn't get into the HOF.  It didn't matter to them then, why should they get a pass now?

Edited by nicksaviking
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Right, but of course the point is we wouldn't know what those numbers would have been had he not been cheating. 

 

Would they still have been good? Probably. But it's on him, not the fans or the voters, that we'll never know.  Perhaps without steroids he struggles in 1999, the Giants don't want to pay a clubhoust cancer the requist money, he ends up signing with a crappy team and he plays out his last couple of years in obscurity.

 

These guys knew how tradition rich this game was.  Don't think for a second that it didn't cross their mind that if they got caught, they wouldn't get into the HOF.  It didn't matter to them then, why should they get a pass now?

 

HGH is a helluva drug. I don't think Bonds ever failed a drug test while he was playing, did he? He obviously used performance enhancing substances, but I don't recall a situation in which he took a specifcally banned substance. It's a semantic argument, sure, but that's the case for every player. Greenies weren't banned when Mays and Aaron were playing, they are banned now.  Bonds admitted to taking substances that were esentially steroids, but not specifically on the list of banned substances. He cheated, but I still like him more than, say, Clemens or A-Rod. It's too bad, because he was probably HOF worthy before he was using.

 

Jeter is more than likely clean, and he doesn't have any close association with any confirmed users (other than Andy Pettitte) - he played with Clemens, A-Rod, Giambi, etc., but I think the general feeling is that Jeter did not cheat. I think Jeter gets a boost for "playing the right way" but even that is not enough to get 100%

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