Thread: JO Berrios

There are some 19 yr old draft picks that went from Low A to AA this yr......just saying that could be a goal for Jose next yr......but this is the Twins organization.

Originally Posted by greengoblinrulz

There are some 19 yr old draft picks that went from Low A to AA this yr......just saying that could be a goal for Jose next yr......but this is the Twins organization.

1st - this is a silly goal.

2nd - does your list include any pitchers beside Dylan Bundy?

Originally Posted by kab21

Originally Posted by greengoblinrulz

There are some 19 yr old draft picks that went from Low A to AA this yr......just saying that could be a goal for Jose next yr......but this is the Twins organization.

1st - this is a silly goal.

2nd - does your list include any pitchers beside Dylan Bundy?

looked but .......no


Needling some with Berrios, would be very happy if he starts the season in Low A & pitches the whole year there.
If he dominates tho....want to see a promotion.

Hard to compare last yrs to this yrs, as this yrs got in a full half-season of ball

John Sickels also wrote about him yesterday at minorleaguebaseball.com.

http://www.minorleagueball.com/2012/...innesota-twins

JO should be tearing apart short season ball. He doesn't offer the type of projection you'd like outta a high school pitcher, but his stuff is damn near maxed out and more then enough to handle the GCL and Appy League now.

BPro had an article series called "Raising Aces" about the mechanics of the pitchers drafted in the first round this year. Berrios showed up in the latest installment. It's behind the paywall, and has video that I couldn't swipe anyhow. But the writer said he had "better pitching mechanics than any player selected before him" and noted that "his release point extension is superior to pitchers half-a-foot taller than him." It was pretty rave-y.

Love this kid. It is going to be fun to watch his rise over the next few seasons.

Originally Posted by East Coast Twin

John Sickels also wrote about him yesterday at minorleaguebaseball.com.

http://www.minorleagueball.com/2012/...innesota-twins

"Overall, in 25.2 innings split between Elizabethton and the Gulf Coast League, Berrios has allowed two runs (0.70 ERA), just 10 hits, only four walks, while fanning 43. That's right, 43/4 K/BB in 25.2 innings with 10 hits allowed." John Sickels.


Very impressive numbers and I am really excited to hear that he is being brought up as a starter. This guy has excellent mechanics, his throwing motion is consistent across his velocity and off speed stuff, and I am really looking forward to seeing him in a Twins uniform.

I always think back to articles I've read in the past about some topics (you'll likely notice that trend in my posts), and this one comes to mind when talking about someone like Berrios. It looks into some of the less obvious factors in what makes a pitcher's stuff look better than it might be at first glance. Things like "projecting out his frame" are nice, but there's a lot more to pitching, as everybody knows. Who was a better pitcher, Randy Johnson or Pedro Martinez? Pointless debate, but you can't get much different bodies on two stud pitchers than those two.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/201...man/index.html

Essentially, with fastballs, the extension forward before release lends the illusion of "hop", or maybe more simply just seeming faster than it is by having to travel less distance in the air after release. With curveballs (and sliders to some extent), spin speed has a huge impact. There's more information in there (and probably more in-depth studies I'm unaware of), but in essence what it comes down to is some pitchers just do little things differently (i.e. better) than others, and maybe with Berrios we'll have one of those, regardless of what size he may be.

Projecting young pitching can be a tricky business. For example, Is Tyler Jones at Beloit a higher rated prospect than Zachary Wheeler? He has the projectable power arm to potentially be a top of the rotation starter, whereas Wheeler clearly has performed better at their current level. Berrios is dominating rookie ball, though is unlikely to dramatically improve his physical skills. That being said, his current stuff is pretty major league ready. So despite the fact that his ceiling may not be much higher, he still projects to be a top of the rotation talent. In fact, I would argue that his advanced control and mechanics puts him much closer to reaching that "ceiling". Have only seen him on film, but wouldn't be surprised at all to see a Baker-esque type accession for Berrios. Certainly he has the best chance of any pitcher we've seen in years to make the bigs by age 21.

Or he could blow out his arm. That's the trouble with young pitchers- you need a lot of them to compensate for inevitable injuries.

Excellent point and one I think the Twins have really tried to address the last few drafts. Though we've certainly been unfortunate in running into medical issues with Bashore, Tootle, Gibson and Hunt (brain?), I like that they've tried to add some top of the order and back of the bullpen type arms.

Boyd, Jones, Boer, Summers, and this year adding another 5-6 power arms is what really has me excited. Obviously they won't all make it, but we need to develop a few #1 and #2 pitchers as I don't ever see us being legitimate players in the FA market. Also glad to see we are looking to stretch some of those projectable arms into starting roles rather than relegating them to bullpen prospects as such an early stage of their careers. Despite Boer's difficulties this season, I think it's a sound philosophy, and one which allows a return to the pen if they aren't able to develop the pitches or psyche to be a starter.

Originally Posted by greengoblinrulz

Originally Posted by kab21

2nd - does your list include any pitchers beside Dylan Bundy?

looked but .......no


Needling some with Berrios, would be very happy if he starts the season in Low A & pitches the whole year there.
If he dominates tho....want to see a promotion.

Hard to compare last yrs to this yrs, as this yrs got in a full half-season of ball

I just get tired of hearing criticism about how the Twins move prospects along slowly. They are conservative compared to most teams but the recent prospects haven't exactly been dominating any leagues and rarely have made the Twins look foolish when they were promoted.

I also think you are way too optimistic about what an 18/19 yr old #31 pick (in a weak draft) should be able to do in his first season of full season ball. He's not Dylan Bundy and he's not Jose Fernandez. He was an outstanding pick and I'm expecting good things next season but acting like he will just roll through A ball like he did in the GCL/Appy league is setting yourself up for disappointment.

Originally Posted by East Coast Twin

John Sickels also wrote about him yesterday at minorleaguebaseball.com.

http://www.minorleagueball.com/2012/...innesota-twins

Thanks for posting this link -- the article is very encouraging.

Originally Posted by TD Mac

Excellent point and one I think the Twins have really tried to address the last few drafts. Though we've certainly been unfortunate in running into medical issues with Bashore, Tootle, Gibson and Hunt (brain?), I like that they've tried to add some top of the order and back of the bullpen type arms.

Boyd, Jones, Boer, Summers, and this year adding another 5-6 power arms is what really has me excited. Obviously they won't all make it, but we need to develop a few #1 and #2 pitchers as I don't ever see us being legitimate players in the FA market. Also glad to see we are looking to stretch some of those projectable arms into starting roles rather than relegating them to bullpen prospects as such an early stage of their careers. Despite Boer's difficulties this season, I think it's a sound philosophy, and one which allows a return to the pen if they aren't able to develop the pitches or psyche to be a starter.

Throwing hard isn't enough. And it's also a lot easier out of the bullpen. Boer has only average velocity as a starter, Summers below average, etc. The Twins lag in every respect behind almost all other organizations. It is a complete disaster zone and no one should think otherwise.

The real question that has not been asked yet is can he learn to pitch to contact instead of striking out most of the hitters?

I can't wait to see him make his MLB debut in 4 more seasons. You would hate to see the Twins rush a pitcher... So sad but probably true.

Throwing hard isn't enough. And it's also a lot easier out of the bullpen. Boer has only average velocity as a starter, Summers below average, etc. The Twins lag in every respect behind almost all other organizations. It is a complete disaster zone and no one should think otherwise.[/QUOTE]

I agree that based on the sample we've seen from Boer, he would appear to be better suited to the pen (as
might Summers - though I'd like to continue to see him worked as a starter as I don't think he's pitched himself out of a rotation possibility yet). However, I don't think that Boer getting the extra innings this year will stunt his growth as a reliever, so I don't think the Twins lost anything by working him as a starter

Id like to continue to see them move some of those power arms into starting assignments if they have the complimentary pitches to support starting

Originally Posted by darin617

The real question that has not been asked yet is can he learn to pitch to contact instead of striking out most of the hitters?

I can't wait to see him make his MLB debut in 4 more seasons. You would hate to see the Twins rush a pitcher... So sad but probably true.

I challenge you (or anyone) to start naming names of Twins prospects that were unjustly held back. The Twins are conservative with promotions but they also haven't prospects that have dominated levels (other than appy league).

Originally Posted by kab21

Originally Posted by darin617

The real question that has not been asked yet is can he learn to pitch to contact instead of striking out most of the hitters?

I can't wait to see him make his MLB debut in 4 more seasons. You would hate to see the Twins rush a pitcher... So sad but probably true.

I challenge you (or anyone) to start naming names of Twins prospects that were unjustly held back. The Twins are conservative with promotions but they also haven't prospects that have dominated levels (other than appy league).

In recent memory, there haven't been any. In the small market days, they definitely played the arb/super2 game... Guys like Neshek, Morneau, and Bartlett spent more time in the minors than one would have liked.... but that was quite some time ago.

Originally Posted by drivlikejehu

Or he could blow out his arm. That's the trouble with young pitchers- you need a lot of them to compensate for inevitable injuries.

Really? I get being realistic and considering all possible scenarios, but we don't need to start putting bad karma on a guy that is already becoming one of the best pitching prospects in our system and is a teenager still.