Thread: Article: Gardenhire announces his outfield plans

Originally Posted by Billy Bremner

There's a whole league of teams out there who are gearing up and strategizing for the upcoming season, and rest assured that their plans, to a team, include not an iota of concern about your Minnesota Twins.

I hope you're right, but I doubt it. No. 1 rule: Never underestimate your opposition.

Originally Posted by Billy Bremner

A little more realistic discourse here, that recognizes the Twins lowly station would be welcome. News alert - Josh Willingham is lead-footed in the outfield - do you want to admit that now, or do you want to reveal your lack of credibility by missing that crucial point and instead pussyfoot about debating whether he is better in RF or LF? There's a whole league of teams out there who are gearing up and strategizing for the upcoming season, and rest assured that their plans, to a team, include not an iota of concern about your Minnesota Twins.

White Sox fans are flooding our board...how about we wait until the season starts ok?

As for the outfield move I think its a good idea. I like having Revere as a late inning replacement.

Originally Posted by John Bonnes

Wow. I gotta say, this is a death knell for Revere's future as a starting outfielder, at least this year. I've been checked out of spring training games for the last week or so. Has he been struggling? In need of an attitude adjustment? I'll also say that Willingham, IMHO, has not looked bad in right field on those few appearances I've seen of him out there.

I'm a little stunned about this, to be honest with you. It's a plot twist to be sure.

But it does make all the puzzle pieces fit together. It protects Morneau. Doumit doesn't have to play first base, which he's said he isn't comfortable with. It rewards Parmelee's torrid spring, and a platoon of Parmelee and Plouffe (or Doumit and plouffe) make nice platoons.

I just returned from watching five spring training games. Revere is lacking basic outfield skills (arm strength, cutting in front of the centerfielder when runner was tagging, missing ground balls) which had everyone talking. It looked like he was trying too hard and it became obvious he doesn't have major league skills. I really enjoyed watching Benson play. The sound of the ball jumping off his bat makes you feel that he is going to be a super star. Leaving Florida he left the best impression of all at the major league field.
It was fun watching TK working with Sano and the A players. That was the best part of the trip.

Originally Posted by nicksaviking

That crash we just heard is Ben Revere's trade value jumping out the window. If the team only views him as a fourth outfielder (5th? 6th?) why weren't they shopping him all preseason and trying to sell another club on his youth, years of team control, minor league track record and unmatched range?

They can't believably claim they want him around to be a defensive replacement or pinch runner, they can call on Mastroianni to do that at any point. What a waisted opportunity to score a decent pitching prospect from another team. Telling the rest of the league how little you value the guy takes away any leverage. Same old MO, see Slowey, Young, Hardy and Lohse.

What trade value do you think other teams place on outfielders who can't hit?

Take of the rose colored glasses when looking at Ben Revere. He's nothing special. "Runs fast" is not a qualification to be an outfielder on a winning MLB baseball team. Even his defensive value (which isn't nearly as important for an outfielder as for infielders) is vastly overrated by many.

Originally Posted by USAFChief

What trade value do you think other teams place on outfielders who can't hit?

Take of the rose colored glasses when looking at Ben Revere. He's nothing special. "Runs fast" is not a qualification to be an outfielder on a winning MLB baseball team. Even his defensive value (which isn't nearly as important for an outfielder as for infielders) is vastly overrated by many.

He can't? Because of a streaky rookie year? He could certainly hit at every other level. No one's claiming he would net any teams top young player, but he was on the organization's top ten prospect list for years. He should have been able to fetch a player of similar stature. No longer, after Gardy so flippantly disregarded him to the other 29 teams. Even getting another clubs number ten prospect would have been more useful then keeping him around as w bench player.

Originally Posted by nicksaviking

He can't? Because of a streaky rookie year? He could certainly hit at every other level. No one's claiming he would net any teams top young player, but he was on the organization's top ten prospect list for years. He should have been able to fetch a player of similar stature. No longer, after Gardy so flippantly disregarded him to the other 29 teams. Even getting another clubs number ten prospect would have been more useful then keeping him around as w bench player.

Wait...other GMs, with dozens of scouts and reams of data at their disposal, changed their opinions of Ben Revere in the last couple days based on What Gardy said? They hadn't noticed his limited upside on their own?

Quick, let's get Gardy to say Nick Blackburn is going to win the next three Cy Youngs and dump him on some rube GM for the best five prospects in their system before they figure out who Blackburn is!

The Twins have Span here and Benson coming up. That determines Revere's value to the Twins. The trick is to find a team that doesn't have a Span or a Benson. A team without other options will overlook some of Revere's flaws.

Originally Posted by USAFChief

Wait...other GMs, with dozens of scouts and reams of data at their disposal, changed their opinions of Ben Revere in the last couple days based on What Gardy said? They hadn't noticed his limited upside on their own?

Quick, let's get Gardy to say Nick Blackburn is going to win the next three Cy Youngs and dump him on some rube GM for the best five prospects in their system before they figure out who Blackburn is!

No one would have changed their minds about what ever skill they determined Revere has. What I clearly said was, now that they know the Twins see little value in him, the Twins have no leverage if they had intended on moving him. No team will need to offer his equivalent value ** no matter what value anyone actually places on him** when they can easily point out to the Twins, "Hey, you don't want him, why should we give you anything for him?"

The Twins are starting to shock me with some of these smart decisions. That said, a few things:

1. That Josh Willingham can't make the move to the other corner is a bit pathetic, isn't it? Maybe when sees how significantly easier RF is at TF, he may change his mind. He's going to be sub-par at either position.

2. There is a legitimate question as to whether or not Revere should start at Rochester to play every day to improve in areas he needs to improve (getting on base and better routes in the OF).

3. I worry about Parmelee beyond 57 at bats in the majors right now.

Originally Posted by nicksaviking

No one would have changed their minds about what ever skill they determined Revere has. What I clearly said was, now that they know the Twins see little value in him, the Twins have no leverage if they had intended on moving him. No team will need to offer his equivalent value ** no matter what value anyone actually places on him** when they can easily point out to the Twins, "Hey, you don't want him, why should we give you anything for him?"

Yeah, it was clear to me that he was going to be the one traded eventually, so I hope he demonstrates some level of competence.

Originally Posted by shanewahl

The Twins are starting to shock me with some of these smart decisions. That said, a few things:

1. That Josh Willingham can't make the move to the other corner is a bit pathetic, isn't it? Maybe when sees how significantly easier RF is at TF, he may change his mind. He's going to be sub-par at either position.

2. There is a legitimate question as to whether or not Revere should start at Rochester to play every day to improve in areas he needs to improve (getting on base and better routes in the OF).

3. I worry about Parmelee beyond 57 at bats in the majors right now.

I hope he can figure it out. Once the team is ready for Benson, Willingham would be a logical everyday DH choice. Unfortunately that position is likely needed for the more fragile players, Mauer, Morneau and Doumit. Three years with poor defense is a long time when you consider there are younger players looking for playing time in the outfield too.

Originally Posted by nicksaviking

I hope he can figure it out. Once the team is ready for Benson, Willingham would be a logical everyday DH choice. Unfortunately that position is likely needed for the more fragile players, Mauer, Morneau and Doumit. Three years with poor defense is a long time when you consider there are younger players looking for playing time in the outfield too.

It's one thing to be sub-par at one OF position, but to force a situation where 2/3 of the OF is below average is problematic. I am not sure about Parmelee's RF defense, but hopefully Plouffe gets it together. I marvel at the fact that Twins never moved Delmon to RF where he belonged and now Willingham is unable to move to where he belongs. Given his inability to make this simple transition, there is no better choice than the one the Twins are making--they cannot have Revere play RF (Willingham's arm belongs there).