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Diamond on Waivers

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#41 cmathewson

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Posted 26 March 2014 - 05:59 PM

They might only be better in a "haven't had a chance to fail yet" way. And I say that as I endorse the cutting of Worley and Diamond.


Just base my opinion on watching them pitch. I don't think you can pitch worse than Worley. Batting practice was quieter. Gilmartin has better stuff and command. Johnson relived Diamond against the Mets ( with a couple of guys in between). The contrast could not have been greater. Diamond threw all his fastballs high and at 90. All his curves were in the dirt. Most of the outs he got were on over-anxious B-squad players swinging at bad pitches. A lot of long innings and wild pitches. Johnson threw a lot of strikes with his 93-mph fastball. Got outs with a sharp curve. His innings were crisp and short.
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#42 stringer bell

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Posted 26 March 2014 - 06:00 PM

IMHO, pretty arrogant statement by Diamond, which is not backed up by his production, but very typical of him. Two Spring Trainings ago, a few days after he was cut from the MLB camp, I saw him ignore two children who were politely asking for autographs by the back fields. That is inexcusable divaism in my book and behavior like that just does not happen there.

Good riddance. Hope he signs with the Yankees.

I've talked briefly with Diamond two consecutive years and he was engaging and humorous. He went over to the fence where autographs are given, most walk on by. He talked a bit to everybody he signed for and would take a (superficial) interest in them (where they were from, how they like FL and for the kids, what position they played). Based on this, I disagree with you Thry. Maybe I've caught him on good days but after seeing him in person, I like Diamond more. Obviously, Scott has a limited upside, but I wouldn't be at all surprised to see him get and keep and major league job. I hope the Twins can get a minimal prospect for him, but most of all I hope he succeeds.

#43 TheLeviathan

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Posted 26 March 2014 - 06:09 PM

So they got better guys. Johnson is better than Diamond and Gilmartin is better than Worley. I refuse to see this as anything but positive.


We're a LONG way from a conclusion like that. I'd venture to bet a year ago you would've said something similar about those same two players.

I'm thrilled Gibson made the rotation and commend the Twins for that brilliant move, but I'm unconvinced about Johnson, Gilmartin, etc. I'm hoping Diamond passes through and represents another option in AAA.

#44 birdwatcher

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Posted 26 March 2014 - 08:14 PM

It's progress that they didn't choose Diamond over Gibson. It's also not what many made it out to be about our "depth" this year.

Should an injury happen we're still turning first to 30ish journeymen or fringe prospects.


Who wudda thunk that you'd prefer Johnson, Gilmartin, and Darnell over Worley as your 6th starter? But the depth, while not great, is better, with Deduno and Swarzak avaiklable for a spot start and Meyer next in line most likely.

#45 nicksaviking

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Posted 26 March 2014 - 08:25 PM

Disturbing signs of decline for Duensing against LHBs last year? (Scroll all the way to the right hand side):

[TABLE="class: rgMasterTable, width: 100%"]

[TH="class: rgHeader"]Season[/TH]
[TH="class: rgHeader"]Handedness[/TH]
[TH="class: rgHeader, align: right"]IP[/TH]
[TH="class: rgHeader, align: right"]ERA[/TH]
[TH="class: rgHeader, align: right"]TBF[/TH]
[TH="class: rgHeader, align: right"]H[/TH]
[TH="class: rgHeader, align: right"]2B[/TH]
[TH="class: rgHeader, align: right"]3B[/TH]
[TH="class: rgHeader, align: right"]R[/TH]
[TH="class: rgHeader, align: right"]ER[/TH]
[TH="class: rgHeader, align: right"]HR[/TH]
[TH="class: rgHeader, align: right"]BB[/TH]
[TH="class: rgHeader, align: right"]IBB[/TH]
[TH="class: rgHeader, align: right"]HBP[/TH]
[TH="class: rgHeader, align: right"]SO[/TH]
[TH="class: rgHeader, align: right"]AVG[/TH]
[TH="class: rgHeader, align: right"]OBP[/TH]
[TH="class: rgHeader, align: right"]SLG[/TH]
[TH="class: rgHeader, align: right"]wOBA[/TH]

[TR="class: rgRow"]
[TD="class: grid_line_regular"]2013[/TD]
[TD="class: grid_line_regular"]vs L[/TD]
[TD="class: grid_line_regular, align: right"]30.1[/TD]
[TD="class: grid_line_regular, align: right"]- - -[/TD]
[TD="class: grid_line_regular, align: right"]132[/TD]
[TD="class: grid_line_regular, align: right"]37[/TD]
[TD="class: grid_line_regular, align: right"]6[/TD]
[TD="class: grid_line_regular, align: right"]1[/TD]
[TD="class: grid_line_regular, align: right"]10[/TD]
[TD="class: grid_line_regular, align: right"]10[/TD]
[TD="class: grid_line_regular, align: right"]3[/TD]
[TD="class: grid_line_regular, align: right"]7[/TD]
[TD="class: grid_line_regular, align: right"]1[/TD]
[TD="class: grid_line_regular, align: right"]1[/TD]
[TD="class: grid_line_regular, align: right"]36[/TD]
[TD="class: grid_line_regular, align: right"].298[/TD]
[TD="class: grid_line_regular, align: right"].344[/TD]
[TD="class: grid_line_regular, align: right"].443[/TD]
[TD="class: grid_line_regular, align: right"].341[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: rgAltRow"]
[TD="class: grid_line_regular"]2013[/TD]
[TD="class: grid_line_regular"]vs R[/TD]
[TD="class: grid_line_regular, align: right"]30.2[/TD]
[TD="class: grid_line_regular, align: right"]- - -[/TD]
[TD="class: grid_line_regular, align: right"]136[/TD]
[TD="class: grid_line_regular, align: right"]31[/TD]
[TD="class: grid_line_regular, align: right"]5[/TD]
[TD="class: grid_line_regular, align: right"]2[/TD]
[TD="class: grid_line_regular, align: right"]18[/TD]
[TD="class: grid_line_regular, align: right"]17[/TD]
[TD="class: grid_line_regular, align: right"]1[/TD]
[TD="class: grid_line_regular, align: right"]15[/TD]
[TD="class: grid_line_regular, align: right"]3[/TD]
[TD="class: grid_line_regular, align: right"]1[/TD]
[TD="class: grid_line_regular, align: right"]20[/TD]
[TD="class: grid_line_regular, align: right"].258[/TD]
[TD="class: grid_line_regular, align: right"].348[/TD]
[TD="class: grid_line_regular, align: right"].364[/TD]
[TD="class: grid_line_regular, align: right"].311[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


I know almost everyone turned the Twins off after the All-Star break, but Duensing was pretty lights out the second half with a 1.215 WHIP, 8.9 K/9, 4.33 K/BB, 3.08 ERA.

I wouldn't expect Diamond to come anywhere near those numbers.

#46 jokin

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Posted 26 March 2014 - 08:32 PM

We're a LONG way from a conclusion like that. I'd venture to bet a year ago you would've said something similar about those same two players.

I'm thrilled Gibson made the rotation and commend the Twins for that brilliant move, but I'm unconvinced about Johnson, Gilmartin, etc. I'm hoping Diamond passes through and represents another option in AAA.


I feel a bit like a ping pong ball, but THIS, all of this. It would be nice, especially until Meyer passes the arb date and proves his mettle in AAA, that the Twins have Diamond at the ready, as one of the first two depth options in the first month and a half. As stated before, I hope that Meyer forces the issue by some time in May and moves up to the first SP option. Johnson, Gilmartin, et al, certainly appear to be upgraded SP options over "PJ, Cole and the Funky Bunch", but the 9-12 depth chart SPs (if Diamond re-signs- he would be my "7B", as I'm counting on Deduno and Meyer to be #6 and #7) are no where near slam dunks if called upon.

(Given the offseason love that he received from TR, and the lack of a LHSP, I get the sneaking suspicion that Johnson might leapfrog everyone else on this list, including Deduno- but of course, I hope the Twins are well aware that if Deduno starts, they don't need a LHSP, as Deduno is the #3 ranked SP against LHB for 2012-13 and was #5 against LHB in 2013:

http://www.fangraphs...lter=&players=0)

Edited by jokin, 26 March 2014 - 09:31 PM.


#47 twinsnorth49

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Posted 26 March 2014 - 08:46 PM

We're a LONG way from a conclusion like that. I'd venture to bet a year ago you would've said something similar about those same two players.

I'm thrilled Gibson made the rotation and commend the Twins for that brilliant move, but I'm unconvinced about Johnson, Gilmartin, etc. I'm hoping Diamond passes through and represents another option in AAA.


But we might as well take the chance to come to that conclusion, it's clear Diamond was very unlikely to be the answer and they may as well run with Johnson and Gilmartin to find out if they are. It would be pretty hard for them to be any worse of an option.

If Diamond passes through waivers great but he's still going to have to work past others to get another shot.

#48 TheLeviathan

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Posted 26 March 2014 - 09:02 PM

If Diamond passes through waivers great but he's still going to have to work past others to get another shot.


Probably, but Diamond has shown some ability to be a successful big league pitcher. He just has a razor thin margin of error in his style of success. I share the frustration with that type of pitcher....we all endured Blackburn after all.

Here's just me playing devil's advocate a bit....People are ready to toss him aside as though he's garbage along with Worley..but you're also talking about two guys that prior to last year had ERA+ of 116 and 96. (And 127 the year prior for Worley) Correia has never done that. Hughes has only 103 as his top season. Nolasco was 124 five years ago.

I'm not suggesting Worley or Diamond are those excellent seasons they had, but they have been successful contributors which is more than many can say. I'm happy this move is coming because Gibson has a spot, but I'm hoping Diamond clears and we might still find some value out of him.

#49 jokin

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Posted 26 March 2014 - 09:24 PM

I know almost everyone turned the Twins off after the All-Star break, but Duensing was pretty lights out the second half with a 1.215 WHIP, 8.9 K/9, 4.33 K/BB, 3.08 ERA.

I wouldn't expect Diamond to come anywhere near those numbers.


I wasn't comparing Duece to Diamond (Diamond should be SP depth, IMO), just pointing out that it was a checkered season for Duensing, and the bloom was off the rose for his dominance against LHB, as his numbers against LHB were clearly not "lights out", the numbers show he was actually pretty hittable against them.

And Duensing's Inherited Runners Scored rate soared to 32% from the previous 3-year average of 15% Not saying he's toast, just pointing out there are a few chinks in his armor going into this season.

Incidentally, the 1st Half/2nd Half Duece comparison was a little misleading also. It wasn't really a tale of two Duensings, but more like the Tale of Jekyll and Hyde Duensing:

good in April, June and August (August was awesome, 0.00 ERA) and alternately, just plain awful in May, July and September:


http://minorleaguece...8846&split=2013

Edited by jokin, 27 March 2014 - 12:11 AM.


#50 Marta Shearing

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Posted 27 March 2014 - 02:07 PM

Well, its nice Diamond can now see what the other 29 teams think of him.

#51 stringer bell

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Posted 27 March 2014 - 04:58 PM

Diamond cleared waivers and is deciding whether to accept assignment to AAA. I didn't remember that he had been outrighted before, so this is a surprise to me. I sincerely doubt he will accept assignment in Rochester unless he feels like no other team offers him a better opportunity to get back to the majors. Say what you will about adding the three free-agent right handers, but I think Diamond will have a better shot with several other teams. If so, the Twins will lose him for $50,000 less than they paid for him.

#52 spycake

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Posted 29 March 2014 - 09:09 AM

Diamond accepted his outright assignment, according to Lavelle (via MLBTR):

http://www.mlbtrader...on-waivers.html

#53 Sconnie

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Posted 29 March 2014 - 09:15 AM

Diamond accepted his outright assignment, according to Lavelle (via MLBTR):

http://www.mlbtrader...on-waivers.html

I hope this is a chance for a Diamond to work out the kinks and become a contributor to the big league club in some fashion later this season.

#54 Hosken Bombo Disco

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Posted 29 March 2014 - 09:36 AM

"All the geniuses over there at Twins Daily, *ahem* predicting Scott Diament would be claimed off waivers, well lemme tell you something.."
/ Sid Hartman





PS don't know what Sid's actually said about the Twins in a while. But we pretty much all did (including me) think it was a lock Diamond would be claimed. Best of luck to Diamond in AAA.

Edited by Hosken Bombo Disco, 29 March 2014 - 09:43 AM.
Added ps


#55 Kwak

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Posted 29 March 2014 - 10:03 AM

It's a fact that Twins fans tend to view Twins players more highly than the rest of baseball. The "fear" that ___, or ___, or even ___ would be claimed by another team is unfounded. If a guy can't make this team--especially if he's 24 or older--there is ample reason to believe that he couldn't be satisfactorily replaced. I think there is altogether too much of an attachment between the FO and players. Some make it, most don't and the FO has to be able to act dispassionately and logically--throats will need to be cut, it's part of their job.

#56 cmathewson

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Posted 29 March 2014 - 10:32 AM

Poor Logan Darnell. Probably ends up at New Britain, again. On the plus side, he knows where all the good restaurants are in the Eastern League.
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#57 Craig Arko

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Posted 29 March 2014 - 10:33 AM

It's a fact that Twins fans tend to view Twins players more highly than the rest of baseball. The "fear" that ___, or ___, or even ___ would be claimed by another team is unfounded. If a guy can't make this team--especially if he's 24 or older--there is ample reason to believe that he couldn't be satisfactorily replaced. I think there is altogether too much of an attachment between the FO and players. Some make it, most don't and the FO has to be able to act dispassionately and logically--throats will need to be cut, it's part of their job.


I'd say it's closer to fact that Twins fans tend to view other teams players more highly than their own.

#58 cmathewson

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Posted 29 March 2014 - 10:34 AM

It's a fact that Twins fans tend to view Twins players more highly than the rest of baseball. The "fear" that ___, or ___, or even ___ would be claimed by another team is unfounded. If a guy can't make this team--especially if he's 24 or older--there is ample reason to believe that he couldn't be satisfactorily replaced. I think there is altogether too much of an attachment between the FO and players. Some make it, most don't and the FO has to be able to act dispassionately and logically--throats will need to be cut, it's part of their job.


It shows how little importance options play in these decisions. What fans don't get is that every team in the league is facing the same challenges, and it is an opportunity for your team to pick up a player or two if you can create some space on the 40 man.
"If you'da been thinkin' you wouldn't 'a thought that.."

#59 roger

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Posted 29 March 2014 - 10:39 AM

Poor Logan Darnell. Probably ends up at New Britain, again. On the plus side, he knows where all the good restaurants are in the Eastern League.


No CMath, I think Darnell is safe in Rochester. But good ole Pat Dean is likely headed back to New England. But there does appear to be a logjam of pitchers at AAA.

#60 cmathewson

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Posted 29 March 2014 - 11:39 AM

Yeah, just heard on the radio that Gilmartin is going to New Britain instead of Darnell (as well as Dean).
"If you'da been thinkin' you wouldn't 'a thought that.."