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Parmelee or Kubel?

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#31 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 10:13 AM

Arcia HAS to make this roster or someone needs to investigate them purposly tanking the season. Arcia is the 2nd best player on the roster and its not close.


Eh, comparatively speaking and taking position into account, Dozier might be the second best guy.

But Arcia is definitely in the conversation.

And that's pretty sad, actually.

#32 CRArko

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 10:45 AM

Kubel has been added to the 40 and 25 man roster, so the question now becomes Parmelee or Colabello, or Bartlett.

#33 spycake

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 11:05 AM

It's not what I would do, but to be honest Arcia hasn't lit the world on fire in ST. From what I saw of him, he's having a tough time making contact.


I know it's just spring training stats, but this worries me too. Arcia saw his K rate skyrocket in 2013, and it's almost exactly the same this spring.

Actually, aside from Hicks, the whole team seems to be carrying over that K bug from 2013. Even Mauer.

That's one of the reasons I was excited about Danny Santana -- while he doesn't draw walks, the guy seemed to really cut his Ks last year, and they stayed down this spring while he hit pretty well (admitted against mostly minor league competition).

#34 Danchat

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 03:09 PM

With Kubel locked to make the team, it might be a Parmelee vs Arcia competition. Or maybe Presley vs Parmelee. Or wait, Colabello vs Parmelee. Parmelee vs EVERYONE!!!

But in all seriousness, I think Parmelee should win and get a roster spot. If they can give him a few more PAs, maybe, just maybe he could hit. There's got to be a way they can teach him how to hit a fastball belt-high. If our staff won't do it, Baltimore's staff will. (or whoever else claims him. Probably the Astros actually.)

I also hope it's a given that Bartlett's off the team. I like him, but frankly he has no business on this roster.

#35 VandyTwinsFan

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 03:19 PM

Just announced that Twins informed Kubel he made the team.

#36 Sconnie

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 03:54 PM

The notion of this makes me want to scream.

Arcia needs to play everyday. Period.

Arcia needs to play every day with the big league club. Period.

#37 twinsfan34

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 04:29 PM

The difference between Meyer and Arcia is competing player.

Meyer is competing with the likes of Gibson, Pelfrey, and Correia. Correia and Pelfrey should be adequate starters. Gibson is also a prospect and should be in line to get a shot before Meyer, especially considering how he has looked this spring.

On the other hand, Arcia is blocked by two bad players. It is not only likely that he's better than Kubel and Parmelee on Opening Day, it's likely that he's much better. The same can't really be said for Meyer, who won't be killed by another couple of months in the minors. Arcia has already dominated every level of the minor leagues and looked like a decent MLB player in 2013. He needs better competition to advance at this point.


Dear God...to even utter the world 'blocked' in consideration of those two guys...oye!

I'm with the crew Arcia has to play and play in MLB everyday he can.

And overall...like this, until those on the higher end prove they can't cut it. To which Arcia would really have to tank for that.

Arcia > Colabello > Parmalee > Kubel

#38 pierre75275

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 04:44 PM

I would take Parmelee bc he doesnt have options and Kubel is on a minor league contract. Personally I think its 6 of one and a half dozen of the other

#39 LaBombo

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 04:54 PM

This thread should be re-titled 'Punch in the face or kick in the wiener?'.

And if either guy has any bearing on Arcia being sent down, then my guess is that the answer is 'both'.

#40 Thrylos

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 05:01 PM

This will be the game the pitching staff boycotts.


They boycotted most of them last season, so that would not be much different...
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#41 Thrylos

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 05:01 PM

Just announced that Twins informed Kubel he made the team.


He was added on the 40 man roster...
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#42 LaBombo

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 05:14 PM

He was added on the 40 man roster...


Posted Image

#43 cmathewson

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 06:02 PM

Totally agree, I was only talking about competitions for spots.


I don't think it was ever a competition. They had a gentleman's agreement.
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#44 TheLeviathan

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 08:45 PM

I don't think it was ever a competition. They had a gentleman's agreement.


Probably true, but I'd suggest most competitions are basically the same - the decision was made long before any meaningless ST at-bats.

#45 stringer bell

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Posted 26 March 2014 - 05:39 AM

So I guess the real question is who is the 25th guy? Colabello, Bartlett, and Parmelee are fighting for one spot IMHO. While he fits the poorest of these three, I hope the Twins take Parmelee. If it doesn't work out, they can undo that move and promote either CC or "Barty".

#46 cmathewson

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Posted 26 March 2014 - 05:49 AM

So I guess the real question is who is the 25th guy? Colabello, Bartlett, and Parmelee are fighting for one spot IMHO. While he fits the poorest of these three, I hope the Twins take Parmelee. If it doesn't work out, they can undo that move and promote either CC or "Barty".


I don't know why they need to be so lefty dominant. Colabello at least can platoon with Kubel, who is historically mediocre against lefties, and worse the last few years. Parmelee doesn't really have a role now, except perhaps platooning with Willingham. But he's not a liability against righties. My guess is Parmelee is like Diamond. They will try to find a taker until the last day of spring. If they can't, DFA.

Gardy has pushed for Bartlett's versatility, but he just doesn't hit enough. He's a little better the last week, yet still not good enough. And he never had much power. Bartlett might restructure again. Or he might go home. He has less than a week to decide. It's up to him.
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#47 beckmt

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Posted 26 March 2014 - 07:45 AM

Let's look at the last possibility, Twins could option Florimon to give him a month of AB's while he recovers and start Escobar with Bartlett the utility player. They could then bring Florimon back up and replace whoever does not cut it.
Parmelee is probably gone, unless the Twins send Arcia to Rochester, do not see him making this club.

#48 cmathewson

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Posted 26 March 2014 - 08:18 AM

Let's look at the last possibility, Twins could option Florimon to give him a month of AB's while he recovers and start Escobar with Bartlett the utility player. They could then bring Florimon back up and replace whoever does not cut it.
Parmelee is probably gone, unless the Twins send Arcia to Rochester, do not see him making this club.


The possibility of sending Arcia to Rochester just so you can hang onto a AAAA player makes me physically ill. Parm's best hope is with an other organization. We gave him two good chances. He failed both times. It's Arcia's turn.
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#49 Linus

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Posted 26 March 2014 - 09:54 AM

The possibility of sending Arcia to Rochester just so you can hang onto a AAAA player makes me physically ill. Parm's best hope is with an other organization. We gave him two good chances. He failed both times. It's Arcia's turn.


I don't know that he really did get two good chances. From memory it seems that he got his abs in snippets without getting consistent abs for an extended period of time. With relatively few abs at the major league level I don't think we know if he is AAAA or not. Sure makes me wish he could have got them last year so we had an idea. If he could hit at the major league level he would be a useful player with the ability to play multiple positions

#50 Steve Penz

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Posted 26 March 2014 - 09:55 AM

Trying to justify keeping Parmalee is a huge fail. The chances that he suddenly figures it out at this point are very slim. Let's move on. He seems like a good guy and if he can find it someplace else then so be it. The Twins should be done with him.

#51 nicksaviking

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Posted 26 March 2014 - 10:18 AM

I don't think it was ever a competition. They had a gentleman's agreement.


I must disagree. One is from Wisconsin, the other is from South Dakota. I have yet to meet a gentleman from either of those states.

#52 cmathewson

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Posted 26 March 2014 - 10:39 AM

I don't know that he really did get two good chances. From memory it seems that he got his abs in snippets without getting consistent abs for an extended period of time. With relatively few abs at the major league level I don't think we know if he is AAAA or not. Sure makes me wish he could have got them last year so we had an idea. If he could hit at the major league level he would be a useful player with the ability to play multiple positions


A real chance is two-to-three months of starting every day. By my reckoning, he had that.
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#53 Linus

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Posted 26 March 2014 - 11:28 AM

A real chance is two-to-three months of starting every day. By my reckoning, he had that.


Well, since he is well short of 1000 ab in the big leagues I guess we disagree.

#54 LaBombo

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Posted 26 March 2014 - 12:36 PM

Well, since he is well short of 1000 ab in the big leagues I guess we disagree.

That's the publicly stated position of the Twins as well.

Personally my odds for Parmelee to succeed are about 1 in 10, or about 5 times more likely to happen than for Kubel to ever contribute to a contender.

I don't know why they need to be so lefty dominant. Colabello at least can platoon with Kubel, who is historically mediocre against lefties, and worse the last few years.

That possibility assumes Gardenhire will not be managing the Twins.

Edited by LaBombo, 26 March 2014 - 12:40 PM.


#55 spycake

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Posted 26 March 2014 - 12:39 PM

I don't know that he really did get two good chances. From memory it seems that he got his abs in snippets without getting consistent abs for an extended period of time. With relatively few abs at the major league level I don't think we know if he is AAAA or not. Sure makes me wish he could have got them last year so we had an idea. If he could hit at the major league level he would be a useful player with the ability to play multiple positions


Parmelee isn't exactly Garrett Jones here (only 84 PA with the Twins, although different age and minor league resume). Parm's had 631 MLB PA so far, and hasn't shown anything at all in the last 540 (84 OPS+, zero standout skills).

If we let guys like this rack up consecutive 500 PA seasons, fans would probably be criticizing the front office for not realizing the guy couldn't hit earlier and wasting time with him.

That said, if we lose him at this point, it will hopefully be in favor of someone with better MLB chances, not just some random roster patch (i.e. not Bartlett!).

#56 cmathewson

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Posted 26 March 2014 - 12:43 PM

That's the publicly stated position of the Twins as well.

Personally my odds for Parmelee to succeed are about 1 in 10, or about 5 times more likely to happen than for Kubel to ever contribute to a contender.


Tom Kelly used to say, "you need 1000 at bats at the big leagues to find out what you have." He didn't mean, "You have to give guys 1000 at bats." More like, "If a guy is really good for 500 at bats, let's see another 500 before we say he's going to be around for the long haul." I think Chad Allen was the poster child for that statement.

If a guy sucks, you pretty much know it in a couple of seasons. If a guy is good, it might take three seasons to learn his limitations, as the league figures him out.
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#57 spycake

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Posted 26 March 2014 - 12:44 PM

Personally my odds for Parmelee to succeed are about 1 in 10, or about 5 times more likely to happen than for Kubel to ever contribute to a contender.


Kubel has to be more likely to have any success in MLB, though, right?

And that could be a modest trade chip for the Twins. Nothing earth-shattering in performance or trade, of course, but something more than a 84 OPS+ corner OF/1B.

#58 spycake

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Posted 26 March 2014 - 12:49 PM

They are in a tough spot with Parmelee. He hasn't been worth anything to the MLB Twins the past two seasons, they probably think he won't really ever be a MLB hitter, but at the same time, because he's out of options, even if another team thought he had potential, they're not going to trade for him -- they'll just take their chances if he hits waivers.

So the Twins choices are: keep a poor player around hoping for something unexpected, or move on and waive him and hope he slips through to help Rochester. I can't really fault them for thinking the latter (again, as long as they're not just replacing him with equally hopeless filler like Bartlett).

#59 LaBombo

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Posted 26 March 2014 - 12:57 PM

Kubel has to be more likely to have any success in MLB, though, right?

And that could be a modest trade chip for the Twins. Nothing earth-shattering in performance or trade, of course, but something more than a 84 OPS+ corner OF/1B.

If they had a stronger track record of making that kind of trade and succeeding it would be more encouraging. They failed to cash in on him (and Cuddyer) the first time when he was younger and more valuable

#60 cmathewson

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Posted 26 March 2014 - 01:10 PM

They are in a tough spot with Parmelee. He hasn't been worth anything to the MLB Twins the past two seasons, they probably think he won't really ever be a MLB hitter, but at the same time, because he's out of options, even if another team thought he had potential, they're not going to trade for him -- they'll just take their chances if he hits waivers.

So the Twins choices are: keep a poor player around hoping for something unexpected, or move on and waive him and hope he slips through to help Rochester. I can't really fault them for thinking the latter (again, as long as they're not just replacing him with equally hopeless filler like Bartlett).


Yep. It's Mike Restovich all over again. Very few of those guys become stars. it happens once in a while. But it is really rare.
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