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Parmelee or Kubel?

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#1 darin617

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 04:24 PM

Wouldn't the Twins be better of with Chris Parmelee over Jason Kubel? With Parmelee out of options why not give him one last shot with the club. If he fails miserably you could just recall Kubel and see if Parmelee would clear waivers and send him to Rochester or just say enough is enough and cut your losses with him.
If you look at the spring training numbers neither player should make the club. To be honest I would rather have Chris Colabello than either player if they cannot find a better player who gets cut before the season starts.

#2 nicksaviking

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 04:31 PM

With Herrmann getting sent down, I think Colabello is making the team as a RH bench bat. I agree with picking Parmelee also, hopefully the team comes to their senses.

#3 cmathewson

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 04:38 PM

I don't have a lot of faith in Parm. He has one very big hole in his swing: He can't hit the belt-high fastball. Not surprisingly, he gets a steady diet of them, and he makes a lot of outs. I hate to lose a former first rounder, but I think Kubel has the better chance to succeed, despite his slow start in spring training.
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#4 diehardtwinsfan

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 05:09 PM

Kubel was given an unconditional release from his team last year and hasn't set the world on fire so far this spring. I for one would much rather give Parm one last shot....

#5 Thrylos

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 05:18 PM

Simple answer (actually a question: ) If the Twins were to pass them both through waivers (I know they do not have to do for Kubel, but it is hypothetical) who gets claimed first?

The Twins would be better with that guy (even just to trade him away...)
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#6 Halsey Hall

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 06:02 PM

Kubel would be snapped up first. But that won't happen as he has to make the team. Why give Parmelee one last chance? Seems he's had plenty of last chances and doesn't take advantage.

#7 TheLeviathan

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 06:04 PM

Looks like it's Parmalee or Colabello. I'd prefer Parms.

#8 Marta Shearing

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 06:17 PM

Neither Kubel OR Parmelee should make the team. My bench is Herrmann, Cowbell, Presley, Escobar, and Bartlett.

#9 stringer bell

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 06:23 PM

While Colabello has performed better in the spring and a RH bat seems to fit better off the bench, I really can't get Colabello 2013 off my mind. Almost all the time last year, he looked lost. Colabello looked pretty sharp at first when I was watching, but his hits were off minor leaguers and early in the spring. FWIW, BBRef says Colabello has faced AAA pitching (8.2). We know he can hit Triple A pitching.

#10 DocBauer

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 06:26 PM

If having to choose between the two, and this means Colabello gets his shot to begin the season with the big league club, and probably deserves it, I'd rather open with Parmelee. He provides 3 position flexibility, is a better OF option than Willingham, and offers Kubes the chance to continue to rebuild his swing at Rochester and be recalled at a later date if successful. Perhaps as little as a month in.

However, this assumes he passes through waivers AND that he agrees to take the Rochester assignment.

#11 Thrylos

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 06:36 PM

Another hypothetical (and unfortunately not so) : It might not be a Kubel vs Parmelee choice. Kubel has made the team. It might be a Parmelee vs. Presley choice. And Gardenhire has played Parmelee at CF this Spring and has hinted that Kubel would play the OF as well. Got to DVR the game that he starts Kubel-Parmelee-Willingham at the OF.
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#12 jorgenswest

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 06:41 PM

Kubel has no long term value.

His numbers in 2010-2011 at age 28 and 29 suggest that he wouldn't play long into his 30s. That OPS in the 750s is going to fall. He has no defensive value. He is a liability on the bases. His projections of an OPS in the neighborhood of 700 is reasonable. I don't see how that would fit a contending team. It certainly doesn't fit a team trying to build a foundation.

The Twins have failed to give Parmelee enough opportunity to know what he can bring. It can take 1000 major league plate appearances for a player to establish his value. After 2+ seasons he is not even 2/3 of the way there. Instead 90 loss teams were giving at bats to no upside veterans. The Twins would be much more sure if Parmelee had a future if they had invested consistent playing time. They didn't. Now they don't know what they have in him. Designate him or keep him. They will have to guess. Fortunately, the other teams don't know either and he could clear waivers.

The best option might be the third option. Maybe there is an outfielder that is out of options on another team that will be designated. He could be better than either Kubel or Parmelee.

The best answer might be neither.

#13 jorgenswest

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 06:42 PM

Another hypothetical (and unfortunately not so) : It might not be a Kubel vs Parmelee choice. Kubel has made the team. It might be a Parmelee vs. Presley choice. And Gardenhire has played Parmelee at CF this Spring and has hinted that Kubel would play the OF as well. Got to DVR the game that he starts Kubel-Parmelee-Willingham at the OF.


Mix that with fly baller Phil Hughes and there should be a lot of entertainment.

#14 TheLeviathan

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 06:43 PM

Also, this just goes to show again how utterly useless ST competitions are. Kubel could literally not have been a worse player all spring and he's still got a spot.

#15 jorgenswest

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 06:59 PM

Also, this just goes to show again how utterly useless ST competitions are. Kubel could literally not have been a worse player all spring and he's still got a spot.


While useless for projecting, they are necessary for the pitchers to build towards the season.

#16 TheLeviathan

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 07:01 PM

While useless for projecting, they are necessary for the pitchers to build towards the season.


Totally agree, I was only talking about competitions for spots.

#17 Beezer

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 08:45 PM

Willingham looks so bad in the field that Parmelee is almost a necessary option as Kubel is not much of an option in the field anymore but probably still better than Willingham and Colabello is not as good as Parm. In a pinch Parm can play center and also plays 1b so he fills that "interchangeable parts" mantra mentioned by Gardy. I have not been at all impressed with Presley's play in the field either so Presley might actually be the odd man out. Not at all something I expected to say at the start of Spring Training.

#18 70charger

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 11:02 PM

Between Kubel and Parmelee, my preference is Parmelee. Kubel was pretty bad for the latter half of 2012, all of 2013, and all this spring. I think he has nothing left in the tank. He can't run, he can't field, he's probably not good enough to DH. I think this is the definition of falling off a cliff.

Parmelee probably doesn't have the upside we thought he did in 2011, but at this point it seems fairly clear to me that it's higher than what Kubel brings. Furthermore, he has team control remaining while Kubel is in his 30s and on a one-year contract, meaning he has to be viewed as strictly a short-term option. Is it really worth losing Parmelee to watch Kubel flail in the majors for a couple months before he's cut?

I say Parmelee all the way.

#19 TheBigGuy7273

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 11:52 PM

Wouldn't the Twins be better of with Chris Parmelee over Jason Kubel? With Parmelee out of options why not give him one last shot with the club. If he fails miserably you could just recall Kubel and see if Parmelee would clear waivers and send him to Rochester or just say enough is enough and cut your losses with him.
If you look at the spring training numbers neither player should make the club. To be honest I would rather have Chris Colabello than either player if they cannot find a better player who gets cut before the season starts.


My Thoughts I wrote on that last night on another thread, Parm has more flexiblity defensively, and would probably be as good as Kubel, with a little less power. I would be willing to bet they are working on a trade with Parm and/or Diamond. Pirates, I bet would be in on Parm, doubtful on diamond, but you never know. They aren't going to run Parm through waivers Because he'll get claimed and they don't want to lose him for free, he'll either get traded or make the roster or make the roster until he gets traded. Colabello or Bartlett will make the roster, for a right handed bat, which means Presely may be the odd man out. Its also doubtful that Colabello and Parm both make the roster, due to basically being the same player and playing the same positions. They also need a bat that is good against lefties, who ever it is.

#20 blindeke

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 01:54 AM

Man we're gonna be starting some terrible DHs this year.

#21 Boom Boom

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 07:15 AM

The Twins might keep both Kubel and Parmelee and stash Arcia at AAA.

#22 ericchri

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 07:17 AM

I get the feeling Kubel's going to be playing LF with Willingham the DH, for what it's worth, even though it was assumed the reverse going into ST.

I said it on another thread, I'm not excited about Kubel making it based on last year and this spring, but he's got enough track record I can ignore SSS spring training stats for now. I just want him to actually produce to keep his spot on the roster. We don't need a veteran not-part-of-the-future guy taking up a spot on the team if he isn't putting up worthy numbers.

#23 mike wants wins

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 07:24 AM

The Twins might keep both Kubel and Parmelee and stash Arcia at AAA.


I actually think this is fairly likely. And it makes you wonder what they rebuild strategy is, if they are going to not play young players.
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#24 nicksaviking

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 07:42 AM

Picking Parmelee is bascially picking both of them. Kubel is one flight away and can be summoned the next day if/when Parmelee/Colabello/Willingham/Arcia flop or get hurt. It doesn't work the other way around, I just don't understand the hesitation. It's not like you HAVE to commit to Parmelee just because you choose him, his stay at with the Twins doesn't have to be long.

#25 Winston Smith

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 07:44 AM

Another hypothetical (and unfortunately not so) : It might not be a Kubel vs Parmelee choice. Kubel has made the team. It might be a Parmelee vs. Presley choice. And Gardenhire has played Parmelee at CF this Spring and has hinted that Kubel would play the OF as well. Got to DVR the game that he starts Kubel-Parmelee-Willingham at the OF.


This will be the game the pitching staff boycotts.

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#26 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 07:47 AM

The Twins might keep both Kubel and Parmelee and stash Arcia at AAA.


The notion of this makes me want to scream.

Arcia needs to play everyday. Period.

#27 Halsey Hall

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 07:49 AM

The Twins might keep both Kubel and Parmelee and stash Arcia at AAA.


This is entirely possible, though I hope not.

#28 Boom Boom

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 07:56 AM

The notion of this makes me want to scream.

Arcia needs to play everyday. Period.


If the 25 best players made the team, then Meyer would be coming north.

Arcia's got options, and he plays the same position as Kubel and Parmelee (whatever that is). It's not what I would do, but to be honest Arcia hasn't lit the world on fire in ST. From what I saw of him, he's having a tough time making contact.

#29 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 07:59 AM

If the 25 best players made the team, then Meyer would be coming north.

Arcia's got options, and he plays the same position as Kubel and Parmelee (whatever that is). It's not what I would do, but to be honest Arcia hasn't lit the world on fire in ST. From what I saw of him, he's having a tough time making contact.


The difference between Meyer and Arcia is competing player.

Meyer is competing with the likes of Gibson, Pelfrey, and Correia. Correia and Pelfrey should be adequate starters. Gibson is also a prospect and should be in line to get a shot before Meyer, especially considering how he has looked this spring.

On the other hand, Arcia is blocked by two bad players. It is not only likely that he's better than Kubel and Parmelee on Opening Day, it's likely that he's much better. The same can't really be said for Meyer, who won't be killed by another couple of months in the minors. Arcia has already dominated every level of the minor leagues and looked like a decent MLB player in 2013. He needs better competition to advance at this point.

#30 savvyspy

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 10:03 AM

I'm almost convinced the Twins planted Bartlett at ST to overshadow how bad Kubel is at this point. Bartlett has been an embarassment and the fact the FO is still mentioning him boarders on gross neglegence. Kubel is maybe a rung up the latter but neither has any business in the majors at this point.

I say you give Parmalee the RF job and if he's not producing by the end of May you waive him and bring up one of the other replacement level guys we have in Roch.

Arcia HAS to make this roster or someone needs to investigate them purposly tanking the season. Arcia is the 2nd best player on the roster and its not close.