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Will this team be the worst of the last four years?

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#1 notoriousgod71

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Posted 23 March 2014 - 02:19 PM

It could easily happen. Will Nolasco and Hughes be enough to overcome how awful our offense surely will be?

Honestly, outside of hoping/praying that Arcia develops there is not a whole lot to get excited about with this team.

I don't care if we lose 120 games. We absolutely need to run Hicks out there every day. We need Pinto to get 400-450 PA. We need Gibson to be in the rotation all season long. This won't happen which I find great fault with.

Presley, Kubel, Bartlett, etc should not be given a roster spot as they serve no purpose on a rebuilding team. Things could be very ugly this season.

#2 Highabove

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Posted 23 March 2014 - 02:42 PM

It's a shame that all the positive off season pitching moves could be washed away by an awful. lineup. The front office stated that the lineup also needed to be addressed. They ended up doing next to nothing. The front office was able to vastly improve the Pitching without raising Payroll. I guess that's a positive for them.

#3 diehardtwinsfan

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Posted 23 March 2014 - 02:45 PM

It could easily happen. Will Nolasco and Hughes be enough to overcome how awful our offense surely will be?

Honestly, outside of hoping/praying that Arcia develops there is not a whole lot to get excited about with this team.

I don't care if we lose 120 games. We absolutely need to run Hicks out there every day. We need Pinto to get 400-450 PA. We need Gibson to be in the rotation all season long. This won't happen which I find great fault with.

Presley, Kubel, Bartlett, etc should not be given a roster spot as they serve no purpose on a rebuilding team. Things could be very ugly this season.


The starting pitching has vastly improved and the offense is more or less the same. I don't see how they can be worse (baring the injury bite)... I think guys like Arcia, Willingham, Hicks (if he's up), and Dozier are pretty decent bets to improve. Mauer is Mauer. The potency of the offense is going to lie with Plouffe, Parmelee, and Pinto in my opinion (and possibly Colabello). I think they ease Josmil into the starting role, so that part will take a bit of time. Something is going to have to click with the others. I'm not expecting all of them to suddenly figure it out, but if one does, that goes a long way towards the team's long term competitiveness.

#4 Thrylos

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Posted 23 March 2014 - 02:59 PM

Kind of hard to answer that in one sentence. Before I went down there to watch them this spring, I was really hopeful that this team can be a .500 team. However, after I did watch them, I was very disappointing. You can read my prediction for this team here (and the reasons behind it.) The 2011 team was different, but this team has worse energy than both the 2012 and 2013 teams as far as Spring Training goes. And I cross-checked this with others who have watched the last few STs and there is agreement. I hope that I am wrong, but it might be another bad season....
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#5 glanzer

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Posted 23 March 2014 - 03:13 PM

To answer your question, yes, this will be the worst team of the last 4 years. And I don't think it will be particularly close.

I'm afraid the offense is going to be historically bad. I don't see where runs are going to come from. I foresee a ton of shutouts or 1-run games. I hope they prove me wrong and a bunch of guys step up and improve or put together breakout seasons. When they go up against a guy like Chris Sale, Max Scherzer, Anibal Sanchez or even Justin Masterson I think there will be a legitimate shot at a no-hitter each game.

I think 100 losses is inevitable barring unforeseen trades.

For more on my predictions check out my blog.

#6 KirbyHawk75

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Posted 23 March 2014 - 03:27 PM

I guess in my opinion, yes. However, I think our pitching will be respectable. Our bullpen, if not overworked, will be our strength again. Our rotation will be better, but Nolasco is our ace; that is a problem. Our offense has a lot of "what if's". This might be the worst lineup I have seen as a Twins fan. I started watching them religiously in 1986 when I was in 5th grade. Maybe the years we had Orlando Merced or Kevin Maas batting cleanup, but this is a bad group. Suzuki reminds me of Matt Walbeck. Willingham seems way past his prime. If he can be anything close to two years ago, then maybe we could get a nice prospect. Floriman's offense does not make up for his defense. Trevor Plouffe is Trevor Plouffe.

It is also kind of an odd season. A lot of the guys on the team know that younger more talented guys are in the wings to replace them. I think they know that...I think the fans are kind of waiting for next year and beyond. The management is waiting for next year and beyond. It has to be awkward.

#7 Major Leauge Ready

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Posted 23 March 2014 - 03:32 PM

They should be a little better this year. Their SP was horrible last year. Nolasco and Hughes are going to help. A fully recovered Pelfrey should have a better year (start to finish) as compared to last year. The 5th starter is also not going to be a AAAA pitcher. Gibson/Deduno will be better than the 5th SP of last year.

The offense might not be any better but they can't hardly be worse than last year. I believe we will see a better version of Aaron Hicks this year. The big question is will we get something remotely close to the 2012 version of Willingham or will he play at or even below 2013 levels. He has looked horrible this spring.

#8 Boom Boom

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Posted 23 March 2014 - 03:42 PM

Just got back from Ft. Myers last night. The Twins looked awful in all four games I saw.

Lots of strikeouts looking. Bad defense, and not just from the usual suspects. Mauer at first base didn't look good at all. Sloppy play by Pinto and Arcia. I'm convinced that Escobar is a better third base option than Plouffe. Willingham looks cooked. The Twins lineup isn't good enough to hide Florimon in the ninth spot. There's two or three other guys who should be batting ninth.

Maybe the rotation is improved, but I don't think it's enough.

#9 notoriousgod71

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Posted 23 March 2014 - 03:54 PM

Follow-up question: Is this season going to be the bottoming out of the Twins?

Honestly, I don't know. I can about guarantee that Buxton and Sano won't start with the big league club in 2015. They'll probably use TJS as an excuse to keep Sano down in AAA until September at least.

#10 LaBombo

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Posted 23 March 2014 - 04:03 PM

The offense might not be any better but they can't hardly be worse than last year.

Posted Image
They replaced the best-hitting catcher in baseball with one of the worst. With Mauer at first, the bat that Suzuki replaces relative to last year is actually Morneau's, but he's still awful even relative to Justin.

Agree about Willingham needing to rebound for them to have a prayer of respectability. In addition, they'll need breakout years from Arcia, Hicks, and Pinto to avoid having one of the worst offenses in the AL.

Overall, my guess is that this will be about like 2013, maybe a little better, with a bad offense offsetting most of the improvement in the pitching. It will be a more interesting year for following the prospects, as they face stronger competition and we get a better picture of what to expect when they arrive.

Edited by LaBombo, 23 March 2014 - 06:27 PM.


#11 Thrylos

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Posted 23 March 2014 - 04:03 PM

I can about guarantee that Buxton and Sano won't start with the big league club in 2015.


All that Buxton proved this Spring Training is that he is over-matched playing against MLB- and AAA-level talent. Let's see how he does in AA and then we can talk about 2015. Unless he has an exceptional season there, I doubt that he gets to the majors before 2016.
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#12 twinsnorth49

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Posted 23 March 2014 - 04:47 PM

Better pitching, worse hitting (taking the over on SO this year)
Willingham needs to have another career year (two years after the first and at age 35).
Plouffe and Parmelee are hoping to be at least league average, at best.
Florimon hopes to stay above the Mendoza line.
No lead off hitter......yet?
Suzuki in the the 2 hole?
Hicks has to be something he hasn't really ever been above AA

Does fielding even need to be discussed?

That's a lot that has to roll the right way to avoid being worse than the last 3 years. Hope I'm wrong but hope is all I got.

#13 drivlikejehu

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Posted 23 March 2014 - 04:54 PM

The Twins are just an awful baseball team at the moment. It's been mystifying to see so many opinions to the contrary in the off-season, even considering typical baseball pre-season optimism.

In terms of position players, they are easily among the worst in baseball. There is very little quality and very little upside for 2014. This team is not going to score runs and, while the rotation will be better, its not great and neither is the defense. They still are going to allow plenty of runs.

The Twins have been so bad that "bottoming out" doesn't really seem applicable, but they certainly are still deep in the wilderness.

#14 Guest_USAFChief_*

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Posted 23 March 2014 - 05:26 PM

As of this post, if I count correctly, 18 of 22 people in the over/under thread picked the Twins to win more than 70.5 games.

Interesting.

#15 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 23 March 2014 - 05:27 PM

I don't see how they're going to be worse this year unless the pitching absolutely collapses.

If you have a competent pitching staff, and it appears the Twins do, you're basically guaranteed 65 wins.

Way too much doom and gloom in this thread. Yeah, the offense is going to suck. That's still a HUGE step up from last year, when both the offense and defense sucked.

#16 Uncle Jesse's Mullet

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Posted 23 March 2014 - 05:32 PM

It's already the most frustrating team we've seen in the last four years, IMO, with guys like Suzuki, Willingham, Kubel, Diamond, Corriea, and Deduno being seriously considered for playing time ahead of Pinto, Parmelee, Arcia, Gibson, Tonkin, etc. None of the vets give a crap about their performance, at least in part because they know they don't have to. They're here on guaranteed contracts, and management is either too soft or too inept to make them earn their money.

As far as "bottoming out" goes, I'm not sure there's a bottom limit to this team so long as the usual suspects are in charge and accountability is only given lip-service. If there are no signs of respectable baseball at Target Field by June 1, I think a complete clean-out from the front-office down to field staff and large swaths of the roster will have to be in order.

#17 TheLeviathan

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Posted 23 March 2014 - 05:42 PM

The offense and defense both still suck. They just upgraded their pitching staff...but how much depends largely on two pitchers having better years than last year. (Hughes and Pelfrey)

I think their record ends up being roughly the same, which would constitute an improvement by pythagorean standards.

I would, however, like to change my over/under pick to under. I don't think this team wins 70.

#18 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 23 March 2014 - 05:56 PM

None of the vets give a crap about their performance, at least in part because they know they don't have to.


A completely absurd and untrue statement.

These are multi-million dollar professionals, not graveyard shift gas station attendants.

#19 stringer bell

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Posted 23 March 2014 - 06:15 PM

I think this is the worst opening-day roster of position players. The pitching will probably be better. I do hope to see a major transformation of the team by mid-season. Trades and demotions will need to be made. Youth will have to be served. The staff should be better and the second line should be much better than last year's dreck. The club needs to obtain talent and play talent.

#20 Guest_USAFChief_*

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Posted 23 March 2014 - 06:20 PM

The offense and defense both still suck. They just upgraded their pitching staff...but how much depends largely on two pitchers having better years than last year. (Hughes and Pelfrey)I think their record ends up being roughly the same, which would constitute an improvements by pythagorean standards. I would, however, like to change my over/under pick to under. I don't think this team wins 70.

You can edit your picks through the end of the month.

#21 Trautmann13

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Posted 23 March 2014 - 06:43 PM

I truly believe that people will be surprized by the rotation this year. Nolasco should be solid, Hughes WILL look great if you ask me, Correia will be similar to last year, Pelfrey will.........um... and Gibson will find his stuff and prove he will be here for awhile, The offence is really beggining to scare me. We need some young guys to step into their roles this year to avoid what happened in september last year.

#22 Joe A. Preusser

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Posted 23 March 2014 - 06:45 PM

It will never cease to amaze me how so many people who claim to be fans will go out of their way to prophesize doom and gloom.

Offense:
Some positives and some negatives.
Mauer will be Mauer, as someone has already pointed out, and could quite possibly be even better than before
Dozier is an excellent second baseman. Top 10 in MLB, perhaps top 5. Some will say he has to prove it, I say he has proven it.
Plouffe, Hicks, Arcia can all realistically be counted on for .250 or better with some pop and in Hicks' case some speed.

Hammer could very easily be done. Or he could be in that .250 with pop category. Not expecting great things from him this year, hoping for good things.
Floriman will play excellent defense but anything at the plate is a bonus.
Suzuki isn't likely to hit well. Pinto is.
Kubel seems like a mistake.
Coloballo could have some nice value off the bench.


Defense:
Strong up the middle with Flori, Dozier, and Hicks. Average at C and possibly 1B. Slightly be low average at 3B. The corner OF won't be pretty unless Pressley plays some left.

Pitching:
Average at worst. Likely at least a full run lower ERA than last year's squad. Instead of the entire rotation made up of marginal starters (Diamond, Worley, Hernandez, Albers, et al) we now have an entire staff of true MLB caliber pitchers. Likely that Meyer is up with the club at some point.

Summation:
Pitching much better, holding par on offense and defense. Win range from 70-85.
So much to look forward to this year if you are a real fan.

#23 Halsey Hall

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Posted 23 March 2014 - 06:47 PM

The pitching will be better but the offense alot worse. 65 wins is tops that I can see. And I'm not sure Gardy has the nuts to take some chances to tweek it. The atmosphere down here is the worst I've ever seen since the place opened.

I'm surprised that I've come to this, but I think Kubel has to make the team to improve the offense. And Bartlett should be up in May, if he does take the AAA route. At least those two have experience to draw on. The younger guys on the team have never been on a winner.

#24 TheLeviathan

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Posted 23 March 2014 - 06:58 PM

So much to look forward to this year if you are a real fan.


Frankly, I have a hard time with anyone who feels optimism is a requirement to be a "real fan". I don't think it's fair to throw a criticism like that around just because people are taking a sober view.

#25 clutterheart

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Posted 23 March 2014 - 07:00 PM

Its pretty hard to be worse than last year, or the year before that.

That being said:

This team defense is going to be absolutely unwatchable terrible at times...yuck, Willingham and Acria are going to give up a lot of doubles.
This team's offense is going to pretty bad, without the hope/excuse of J-Mo to fall back on.
This team's pitching is going to be better - assuming the terrible D doesn't bite them in the ass.

It will be close, I think they should have another top 5 draft pick.

Keep watching those minor leagues!

#26 snepp

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Posted 23 March 2014 - 07:12 PM

Frankly, I have a hard time with anyone who feels optimism is a requirement to be a "real fan". I don't think it's fair to throw a criticism like that around just because people are taking a sober view.


This, x100.


Also, it's just flat out insulting.

#27 JB_Iowa

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Posted 23 March 2014 - 07:15 PM

It's unpredictable ... offense could be disastrous or could be decent if some guys come through.

The one thing I'm pretty sure of? None of us (with perhaps an exception or two for someone I don't know about) has any influence on what happens. We can sit here and debate it forever but in the long run, all we get to do is watch (or, if it gets too bad, NOT watch).

#28 CRArko

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Posted 23 March 2014 - 07:22 PM

Real fans will look forward to different things, though. I look forward to killing a few hours a week, and maybe having a beer and a dog. And I'm both a fan and real. Or maybe a fan and complex. Possibly even a fan and transfinite.

I trust this will not insult anyone.

Oh, and I'll go out on a limb and answer the original question, no.

Edited by crarko, 23 March 2014 - 07:25 PM.


#29 Kwak

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Posted 23 March 2014 - 07:51 PM

Worse team of all time? No. But this past winter wasn't the coldest I've lived through. This Twins season will be like last winter--not the worst, but rather unpleasant.

#30 twinsnorth49

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Posted 23 March 2014 - 07:52 PM

It will never cease to amaze me how so many people who claim to be fans will go out of their way to prophesize doom and gloom.

Offense:
Some positives and some negatives.
Mauer will be Mauer, as someone has already pointed out, and could quite possibly be even better than before
Dozier is an excellent second baseman. Top 10 in MLB, perhaps top 5. Some will say he has to prove it, I say he has proven it.
Plouffe, Hicks, Arcia can all realistically be counted on for .250 or better with some pop and in Hicks' case some speed.

Hammer could very easily be done. Or he could be in that .250 with pop category. Not expecting great things from him this year, hoping for good things.
Floriman will play excellent defense but anything at the plate is a bonus.
Suzuki isn't likely to hit well. Pinto is.
Kubel seems like a mistake.
Coloballo could have some nice value off the bench.


Defense:
Strong up the middle with Flori, Dozier, and Hicks. Average at C and possibly 1B. Slightly be low average at 3B. The corner OF won't be pretty unless Pressley plays some left.

Pitching:
Average at worst. Likely at least a full run lower ERA than last year's squad. Instead of the entire rotation made up of marginal starters (Diamond, Worley, Hernandez, Albers, et al) we now have an entire staff of true MLB caliber pitchers. Likely that Meyer is up with the club at some point.

Summation:
Pitching much better, holding par on offense and defense. Win range from 70-85.
So much to look forward to this year if you are a real fan.


A real fan? As one who isn't all that confident this team will match last year's wins total I assume you're talking to me.

Just so I have this straight, real fan -70 wins, not real fan-65 wins, is that correct?

Don't think you're more of a fan of this team just because you choose to believe something I don't. It's an insult to my intelligence and yours.