Jump to content

Providing independent coverage of the Minnesota Twins.
Subscribe to Twins Daily Email
Photo

Article: Out of Answers

  • Please log in to reply
71 replies to this topic

#21 Circus Boy

Circus Boy

    Grain Belt: "The Friendly Beer"

  • Members
  • 1,202 posts
  • LocationHuron, SD

Posted 19 March 2014 - 08:29 AM

In a skill and mechanics sport like baseball, when a player's skill and mechanics take a holiday then it's all a head game. Worley is physically able, but he's not good between the ears right now. That's not a criticism, just an observation of what happens to young athletes when their stuff leaves them. Hope he comes back to help the Twins, but if not, that he lands elsewhere and finds his mojo.

#22 JB_Iowa

JB_Iowa

    Let's Keep Winning!

  • Members
  • 5,986 posts
  • LocationNorthwest Iowa

Posted 19 March 2014 - 08:35 AM

In a skill and mechanics sport like baseball, when a player's skill and mechanics take a holiday then it's all a head game. Worley is physically able, but he's not good between the ears right now.


These two quotes from Anderson pretty much confirm what you're saying:

Mike Berardino
‏@MikeBerardino


Rick Anderson on Worley: "He warmed up as well as I’ve ever seen him. All of a sudden, as soon as they said play ball, the ball elevated."

Anderson on Worley: "The more he tried to impress, the more it elevated. It just wasn't the night."


#23 tobi0040

tobi0040

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 5,672 posts

Posted 19 March 2014 - 08:37 AM

I was pro "trade an OF for pitchers", but said we'd have to judge the actual trade when we see what happens. That's what scouts get paid for, making the right decision. So far, those scouts should have less influence imo.


Revere is a fringe CF on an OK team. We absolutely could not have his bat and arm in a corner, which is what would have happened. Revere for May straight up is a win in my book.

#24 halfchest

halfchest

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 328 posts

Posted 19 March 2014 - 08:41 AM

I still can't fault the Twins for trading for him. Guy looked like a solid mid rotation pitcher plus you're getting a guy in May that has big upside/power pitcher. I don't think anyone saw this coming from Vanimal. He just hasn't done anything since putting on a Twins uniform. Hopefully they can send him down to Rochester and he gets one more shot at figuring it all out. If not though, I'm fine with the Twins moving on and giving the #5 spot to Deduno for now.

On a positive note . . . knocking on wood as I type, the Twins other starting pitchers have been decent and healthy so far.

#25 Dantes929

Dantes929

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,456 posts

Posted 19 March 2014 - 08:57 AM

Maybe they should ask him to tank one more start so he will be more likely to pass through waivers. Other guys have gone through what he has and come back from it. In 2008 Liriano admitted he had no idea where his fast ball was going to go. He went down to the minors, found it and came back to the Twins and had an excellent 2nd half that propelled the Twins to game 163. In 2010 Jesse Crain completely lost confidence, went down to the minors, came back and had 20 some consecutive scoreless outings. I have no problem with guys going down to the minors and earning their way back. Its actually the way it should be. As has been pointed out before, the other top 7 pitchers have all made a pretty decent show of it. I wish we had the luxury of sending Hicks down as well to earn his way back but in this case I think he should stay up if for nothing other than his defense.

#26 deanlambrecht

deanlambrecht

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 202 posts

Posted 19 March 2014 - 09:05 AM

I actually feel foolish even stating this, but watching his outing and thinking about his dramatic drop in performance made me wonder if he was juicing when he was with the Phillies, but is no longer doing that, and this is what he's really like without the juice. I just can't think of any logical explanations.

#27 tobi0040

tobi0040

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 5,672 posts

Posted 19 March 2014 - 09:28 AM

[quote name='halfchest']I still can't fault the Twins for trading for him. Guy looked like a solid mid rotation pitcher plus you're getting a guy in May that has big upside/power pitcher. QUOTE]

Agree 100%. At the time I would have done either one for one with Revere. Now I still would rather have May 1 for 1.

#28 Sconnie

Sconnie

    From the "right" side of the St Croix

  • Members
  • 2,869 posts
  • LocationNW Wisconsin

Posted 19 March 2014 - 09:34 AM

Maybe they should ask him to tank one more start so he will be more likely to pass through waivers. Other guys have gone through what he has and come back from it. In 2008 Liriano admitted he had no idea where his fast ball was going to go. He went down to the minors, found it and came back to the Twins and had an excellent 2nd half that propelled the Twins to game 163. In 2010 Jesse Crain completely lost confidence, went down to the minors, came back and had 20 some consecutive scoreless outings. I have no problem with guys going down to the minors and earning their way back. Its actually the way it should be.

That's a tough decision for the Vanimal, tank a game and put a seal on finishing his career as a washed up 26 year old AAAA pitcher on the worst pitching team in MLB... or pitch his very best, hopefully good enough to get traded to a better team looking for depth.

while I agree that AAA is the right place for him to go, asking Worley to tank is offensive to Worley and very unlikely for him to go along with.

#29 DAM DC Twins Fans

DAM DC Twins Fans

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 594 posts

Posted 19 March 2014 - 09:34 AM

I agree with most posters. Stick a fork in the Vanimal. He is done. Will he pass thru waivers?? Probably not--somebody will give him one last shot. Could he comeback?? Of course. Will he?? Who knows.

The Twins still have 3 candidates for starter (Diamond, Gibson, Deduno). They have Meyers in the minors and maybe May. Cut the Vanimal now.

#30 cmathewson

cmathewson

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 2,273 posts

Posted 19 March 2014 - 09:53 AM

I still think that someone would pick him up, but at this point, that may be best for him and for the Twins. Personally, I'm not willing to completely shut the door on Worley. I hope that he would pass through waivers and the Twins can send him to Rochester. He's succeeded in the past, and he is 26 all season, so there's still a chance.

You're right though. If he were claimed by another team, he would have to stay on the 25 man roster OR go through waivers a second time.


I was at the game last night. I cannot imagine a scout looking at that and saying he's worth an MLB roster spot. I saw more outs during batting practice. And there were no bloopers or dribblers. Everything was hit on the screws, with several good defensive plays behind him. It's not like this is the first bad outing, either. We saw similar performance in his time with the Twins last year and earlier in the spring. You'd have to be pretty desperate to take a flier on him.
"If you'da been thinkin' you wouldn't 'a thought that.."

#31 ashburyjohn

ashburyjohn

    26th Man

  • Twins Mods
  • 14,713 posts
  • LocationNatick, MA

Posted 19 March 2014 - 09:54 AM

I was pro "trade an OF for pitchers", but said we'd have to judge the actual trade when we see what happens.


A luxury that the scouts themselves do not receive, obviously.

You're right to go on to say they get paid for it, but the converse is that second-guessing remains second-guessing, even if you say in advance that that's what you intend to do. :)

#32 stringer bell

stringer bell

    Staunch supporter of the worst team in mlb. Who's the fool?

  • Twins Mods
  • 7,775 posts
  • LocationZumbrota MN

Posted 19 March 2014 - 09:57 AM

I agree with most posters. Stick a fork in the Vanimal. He is done. Will he pass thru waivers?? Probably not--somebody will give him one last shot. Could he comeback?? Of course. Will he?? Who knows.

The Twins still have 3 candidates for starter (Diamond, Gibson, Deduno). They have Meyers in the minors and maybe May. Cut the Vanimal now.

They have more than that I think. I liked what I saw of Gilmartin and Johnson, particularly Johnson. They also have Darnell and Raley. I saw Darnell on the minor league side (no opinion) and didn't see Raley. In my book, some of these guys are better than De Vries, Walters, Vazquez etc. that they threw out last year. Yes, Worley is a goner for the rotation, but there are plenty of 5th starters to take his place.

#33 PseudoSABR

PseudoSABR

    Twins News Team

  • Twins News Team
  • 3,539 posts

Posted 19 March 2014 - 10:06 AM

The time to sneak him through waivers probably isn't now.Plenty of teams will use the rest of ST to evaluate him and waive him near opening day if need be. Waive him when there's more desirable players on waivers (closer to opening day).

#34 pierre75275

pierre75275

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 385 posts

Posted 19 March 2014 - 10:17 AM

I can not believe he will get a 25 man roster spot. I think they should try to passhim thru waivers now. I dont think anybody would claim him and I doubt he could put up worse numbers. If they wait he might get put up better numbers and get claimed, which i could see the twins and Terry Ryan doing for this purpose

#35 TheLeviathan

TheLeviathan

    Twins News Team

  • Members
  • 13,240 posts

Posted 19 March 2014 - 10:26 AM

I agree with Psuedo - don't waive him now. Waive him after final roster decisions are made and hope he slips through.

This guy was too good with Philly for these results to be taken as what he "truly" is. Something's wrong either with his approach or the way he is being coached or something. It would be a huge loss for this team to have dealt Revere for him and have him flame out this badly. I'm hoping he gets another shot to figures things out with us.

#36 Mike Sixel

Mike Sixel

    Now living in Oregon

  • Members
  • 21,674 posts

Posted 19 March 2014 - 11:42 AM

I can't believe people think a cost controlled CF that put up over 2.4 WAR in his second year in the majors is "fringe". As for second guessing, I had no way to judge the trade at the time. They get paid to be right about if a guy is good or not. If they are wrong a lot, it is how you end up "winning" this many games.

I don't know, it is a site to discuss sports, not airline safety.....maybe we should take it less seriously?


#37 MileHighTwinsFan

MileHighTwinsFan

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 324 posts

Posted 19 March 2014 - 11:49 AM

It looked like his shoulder was bothering him, maybe it was his elbow - looked like he tweaked his knee walking to the dugout. Some time on the DL, a couple of rehab starts and who knows he might be ready when one of our pitchers inevitably come up hurt in May.

#38 tobi0040

tobi0040

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 5,672 posts

Posted 19 March 2014 - 11:59 AM

I can't believe people think a cost controlled CF that put up over 2.4 WAR in his second year in the majors is "fringe". As for second guessing, I had no way to judge the trade at the time. They get paid to be right about if a guy is good or not. If they are wrong a lot, it is how you end up "winning" this many games.


Combine 2011 and 2013 and he had a total WAR of 1.8. Carlos Gomez, by the same calculation had over 8 WAR last year. I am guesing WAR doesn't factor in runners advancing on his noodle arm.

But the general point I was making is that he was at least 3rd on the future depth chart at CF behind Buxton and Hicks. He has a career OPS .654, a total of 45 extra base hits in 1,300+ at bats. That and his arm make him a very poor corner OF option.

#39 Riverbrian

Riverbrian

    Goofy Moderator

  • Twins Mods
  • 16,907 posts
  • LocationGrand Forks, ND

Posted 19 March 2014 - 12:05 PM

The time to sneak him through waivers probably isn't now.Plenty of teams will use the rest of ST to evaluate him and waive him near opening day if need be. Waive him when there's more desirable players on waivers (closer to opening day).


I stand corrected... You are right!

A Skeleton walks into a bar and says... "Give me a beer... And a mop".

 

President of the "Baseball Player Positional Flexibility" Club 

Founded 4-23-16 

 

Strike Zone Automation Advocate


#40 PseudoSABR

PseudoSABR

    Twins News Team

  • Twins News Team
  • 3,539 posts

Posted 19 March 2014 - 12:19 PM

I can't believe people think a cost controlled CF that put up over 2.4 WAR in his second year in the majors is "fringe".

That's cherry picking stats to prove your conclusion. Revere was fringe in 2011 and 2013. After all, I can write a sentence like: I can't believe people are willing to give up a cost controlled SP that put a 3.4 WAR in his second year. The sentence however is misleading; the point is that there's a real debate, and it's pretty easy to see the warts and upside of both Worley and Revere.

Edited by PseudoSABR, 19 March 2014 - 12:22 PM.