Jump to content

Providing independent coverage of the Minnesota Twins.

MinnCentric Forums


Subscribe to Twins Daily Email

Photo

Are the Twins about to trade a starter?

  • Please log in to reply
74 replies to this topic

#41 tobi0040

tobi0040

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 5,163 posts

Posted 18 March 2014 - 09:58 AM

Trade rumor fail: does not include Duensing.


These are Star Trib type proposals. But they are serious on the Tribune. I wonder if they will get the same haul for Price as they did for Shields. Price is better but that was a great haul. Prospects #3 and 35 overall, plus some throw ins.

Why KC did that deal without an extension is beyone me.

#42 biggentleben

biggentleben

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 2,590 posts

Posted 18 March 2014 - 10:10 AM

These are Star Trib type proposals. But they are serious on the Tribune. I wonder if they will get the same haul for Price as they did for Shields. Price is better but that was a great haul. Prospects #3 and 35 overall, plus some throw ins.

Why KC did that deal without an extension is beyone me.


It's an old BYTO meme, sorry for those who weren't familiar.
Staff Writer for Tomahawktake.com, come check it out!

#43 Trautmann13

Trautmann13

    Member

  • Members
  • 93 posts

Posted 18 March 2014 - 10:26 AM

I don't know about this one. A Correia trade is almost certain to happen at some time this year, but to the Rays? and with May? If May would to be included, it would be to get more from the Rays, clearly. But what are they looking at, exactly? Honestly, I would rather see them get a major league ready SS if they could, but that is most likely asking too much for Correia/May and from the hitterless Rays

#44 biggentleben

biggentleben

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 2,590 posts

Posted 18 March 2014 - 10:26 AM

These are Star Trib type proposals. But they are serious on the Tribune. I wonder if they will get the same haul for Price as they did for Shields. Price is better but that was a great haul. Prospects #3 and 35 overall, plus some throw ins.

Why KC did that deal without an extension is beyone me.


To address your actual comment, Kansas City really threw in a lot of redundancy and stagnation in their system. I understand that a lot of names were there, but Myers and Odorizzi were the headline players in the deal, and for 2 years of Shields and a cost-controlled Wade Davis, I can get why they did that. Mike Montgomery had really stagnated in their system after surgery and Patrick Leonard was really a throw-in prospect that the Rays were hoping would bloom (and early returns are pretty poor).

Price is a more elite-talent pitcher, but Shields has proven to be one of the most (if not THE most) durable pitchers in the game, so it depends on what you value in making a proposal. If I'm the Rays talking with the Twins, for example, I try to get one of Buxton/Sano in the deal, and then push for Alex Meyer, knowing I'll likely end up "settling" for a Berrios type as the secondary piece behind Sano/Buxton. Then, you add in probably one more top 15-20 prospect, and you're at a reasonable proposal. A team like the Braves can offer more "major-league ready" talent in a deal, but would have to offer more prospects because of the lack of guys like Buxton/Sano in their system.
Staff Writer for Tomahawktake.com, come check it out!

#45 longstrangetrip

longstrangetrip

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 370 posts

Posted 18 March 2014 - 10:34 AM

I'm not saying that the Twins rotation will be dominant this year, but they certainly are deeper than any recent year I can remember. Having multiple options for the 4th and 5th starters gives them the luxury of trades to teams more desperate for starting pitching. My instinct is to delay any trades until mid-summer, when a guy like Correia might seem very attractive to a contender with a beat-up staff. The only problem with that strategy is my concern that Correia's good season last year might have been a mirage. Pitchers don't usually improve when they migrate to the American League. But maybe his improved numbers have something to do with pitching at TF. I guess I would be open to trading Correia now if the return were very attractive. Absent that, I would prefer to wait until mid-summer.

#46 tobi0040

tobi0040

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 5,163 posts

Posted 18 March 2014 - 10:38 AM

It's an old BYTO meme, sorry for those who weren't familiar.


What is BYTO? I have heard it referenced a few times.

#47 biggentleben

biggentleben

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 2,590 posts

Posted 18 March 2014 - 10:41 AM

What is BYTO? I have heard it referenced a few times.


Battle Your Tail Off. It's a discussion forum that Brock headed up for years with a group who moved together from ESPN's old message boards to the site. It was merged into Twins Daily when Brock came on board here, and a lot of the members of this forum come from that old website.
Staff Writer for Tomahawktake.com, come check it out!

#48 tobi0040

tobi0040

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 5,163 posts

Posted 18 March 2014 - 11:09 AM

To address your actual comment, Kansas City really threw in a lot of redundancy and stagnation in their system. I understand that a lot of names were there, but Myers and Odorizzi were the headline players in the deal, and for 2 years of Shields and a cost-controlled Wade Davis, I can get why they did that. Mike Montgomery had really stagnated in their system after surgery and Patrick Leonard was really a throw-in prospect that the Rays were hoping would bloom (and early returns are pretty poor).

Price is a more elite-talent pitcher, but Shields has proven to be one of the most (if not THE most) durable pitchers in the game, so it depends on what you value in making a proposal. If I'm the Rays talking with the Twins, for example, I try to get one of Buxton/Sano in the deal, and then push for Alex Meyer, knowing I'll likely end up "settling" for a Berrios type as the secondary piece behind Sano/Buxton. Then, you add in probably one more top 15-20 prospect, and you're at a reasonable proposal. A team like the Braves can offer more "major-league ready" talent in a deal, but would have to offer more prospects because of the lack of guys like Buxton/Sano in their system.


An equivalent trade would have been either Buxton or Sano, and Alex Meyer (#3 prospect plus #35).

If the Twins did that trade for a guy that may only play for us for two years, I would be irate. I would not have liked that deal even with an extension. But I could at least understand it.

If he refuses to sign an extension with the Royals, they may end up dumping him with a year or 3 months left and they won't get near the return that gave up.

#49 Jim Crikket

Jim Crikket

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,134 posts

Posted 18 March 2014 - 11:44 AM

These are Star Trib type proposals.


Oh OUCH! I've had some nasty things said about me, but this might be the worst. Where's a moderator when you need one!? :)
I opine about the Twins and Kernels regularly at Knuckleballsblog.com while my alter ego, SD Buhr covers the Kernels for MetroSportsReport.com.

~You can get anything you want at Alice's Restaurant~

#50 tobi0040

tobi0040

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 5,163 posts

Posted 18 March 2014 - 11:51 AM

Oh OUCH! I've had some nasty things said about me, but this might be the worst. Where's a moderator when you need one!? :)


LOL. The best tribune proposals usually involved Nick Punto and a B level prospect for a guy like Albert Pujols, circa 2008.

#51 Jim Crikket

Jim Crikket

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,134 posts

Posted 18 March 2014 - 12:02 PM

Having multiple options for the 4th and 5th starters gives them the luxury of trades to teams more desperate for starting pitching. My instinct is to delay any trades until mid-summer, when a guy like Correia might seem very attractive to a contender with a beat-up staff. The only problem with that strategy is my concern that Correia's good season last year might have been a mirage. Pitchers don't usually improve when they migrate to the American League. But maybe his improved numbers have something to do with pitching at TF. I guess I would be open to trading Correia now if the return were very attractive. Absent that, I would prefer to wait until mid-summer.


I don't think we're seeing as many lopsided trades at the deadline as we used to. Teams have been hoarding their top prospects. The idea is to trade from a position of strength, regardless of when that situation exists. It seems absurd to even type this, but IF the Twins are seen by others as having surplus MLB-level starting pitching, then now is not a bad time to cash in on that via trade. Starting pitchers are dropping like flies and maybe two-thirds of the teams see themselves as potential contenders. Chances are, that will not be the case in July.

The last days of Spring Training, teams will be cutting players to get to 25 men. That could, somewhat, flood the market with potential #5 starters. Right now, teams finding themselves unexpectedly short on SPs may be wanting to acquire a guy that they can at least get in to their own camp for a couple of starts before ST is over.

Long winded way of saying, since the Twins appear to have a surplus of healthy potential #5 SPs at a time when several teams may be looking to add some depth at that position... AND the Twins have a couple of guys who are out of options... AND most of their SP depth haven't completely stunk the place up this spring, this may be the perfect time to make a deal.

Edited by Jim Crikket, 18 March 2014 - 12:05 PM.
punctuation

I opine about the Twins and Kernels regularly at Knuckleballsblog.com while my alter ego, SD Buhr covers the Kernels for MetroSportsReport.com.

~You can get anything you want at Alice's Restaurant~

#52 The Wise One

The Wise One

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,004 posts

Posted 18 March 2014 - 12:06 PM

Correia would probably not go anywhere except as a you take him in a trade if you want player X. If there was a player in the Rays organization that the Twins wanted and the price was May perhaps the Twins were saying you have to take Correia, also. I do not know which hole they would be trying to fill, but the last power hitter they got from them was the poster child for unfulfilled potential.

#53 jokin

jokin

    Twins News Team

  • Twins News Team
  • 10,702 posts

Posted 18 March 2014 - 12:10 PM

I don't think we're seeing as many lopsided trades at the deadline as we used to. Teams have been hoarding their top prospects. The idea is to trade from a position of strength, regardless of when that situation exists. It seems absurd to even type this, but IF the Twins are seen by others as having surplus MLB-level starting pitching, then now is not a bad time to cash in on that via trade. Starting pitchers are dropping like flies and maybe two-thirds of the teams see themselves as potential contenders. Chances are, that will not be the case in July.

The last days of Spring Training, teams will be cutting players to get to 25 men. That could, somewhat, flood the market with potential #5 starters. Right now, teams finding themselves unexpectedly short on SPs may be wanting to acquire a guy that they can at least get in to their own camp for a couple of starts before ST is over.

Long winded way of saying, since the Twins appear to have a surplus of healthy potential #5 SPs at a time when several teams may be looking to add some depth at that position... AND the Twins have a couple of guys who are out of options... AND most of their SP depth haven't completely stunk the place up this spring... this may be the perfect time to make a deal.


You nailed it, JC. It's hard to imagine a situation where Correia would draw more in trade than he would this week. (And it still won't be all that much, but it will serve to bust the logjam, just like in the case of Doumit- Get.Her.Done.)

#54 The Wise One

The Wise One

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,004 posts

Posted 18 March 2014 - 12:15 PM

Although there are a rash of starting pitchers getting injured for the season one would think a contending club would have a reasonable plan A and Plan B. It would take issues with three pitchers to get them in trade mode for Correia. Now a near ready MLB pitcher with options remaining could be valuable to a club with a pitcher dropping or under performing. A B level pitcher might fetch an A- position player

#55 Winston Smith

Winston Smith

    2 + 2 = 5

  • Members
  • 2,175 posts
  • LocationOceania

Posted 18 March 2014 - 12:27 PM

LOL. The best tribune proposals usually involved Nick Punto and a B level prospect for a guy like Albert Pujols, circa 2008.


The Angels might do that trade about now.

Houston we have a problem, "Total System Failure" abort abort!


#56 Halsey Hall

Halsey Hall

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,935 posts
  • LocationCurrently Hammond Stadium

Posted 18 March 2014 - 01:24 PM

I asked Anderson today about a possible Correia trade and he couldn't believe it. "Where'd ya hear that?". No, he's not being traded.

#57 tobi0040

tobi0040

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 5,163 posts

Posted 18 March 2014 - 01:28 PM

I asked Anderson today about a possible Correia trade and he couldn't believe it. "Where'd ya hear that?". No, he's not being traded.


Respectfully, he is not going to say "we are working on a deal with Tampa Bay right now and it will hopefully be finalized by Thursday".

I don't think his start moving now had anything to do with a deal. But I think it is almost a lock he is moved before July. When it depends on when TR thinks he has the best offer. Could be now or it could be in April, July, or somewhere in between.

#58 Halsey Hall

Halsey Hall

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,935 posts
  • LocationCurrently Hammond Stadium

Posted 18 March 2014 - 01:34 PM

It could be later but there won't be any trading now for anyone in the rotation, that'd be crazy. The rotation is the best thing going on this team now. But if we can't score runs, might as well trade them all in July.

#59 spycake

spycake

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 8,058 posts

Posted 18 March 2014 - 01:46 PM

I love any info we can get from Florida (Thrylos, Hallsey, etc, you guys are awesome), but the fact that Tampa was scouting our only two 40 man roster pitchers in this particular game is a pretty weak basis for a trade rumor.

#60 Guest_USAFChief_*

Guest_USAFChief_*
  • Guests

Posted 18 March 2014 - 03:34 PM

I love any info we can get from Florida (Thrylos, Hallsey, etc, you guys are awesome), but the fact that Tampa was scouting our only two 40 man roster pitchers in this particular game is a pretty weak basis for a trade rumor.

So you're saying it wouldn't be out of the ordinary for a scout to be watching a baseball game during spring training? Interesting theory.