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Are the Twins about to trade a starter?

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#31 Oxtung

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 01:29 AM

This would make a lot of sense, and both sides speculated that the fit would be right, centered around a package headlined by either Gattis or Bethancourt along with Lucas Sims and Joey Terdoslavich with a few more final pieces to be added. In fact, the Rays and Braves had some heavy talks around the deadline last year with a similar framework, but the Rays would not allow the Braves to talk with Price regarding an extension before the trade was finalized. That's apparently paramount for the Braves before they'd make a move for Price, and with the price it'd cost (pun unintentional, but it works!), I completely agree with that stance.

At this point, the Braves wouldn't make the move for him midseason, I don't believe. It doesn't work with their budget or team-building philosophy. I'm not even sure if there's room for Price in the current budget.


Out of curiosity, can they afford him in the long term? You have to think he'll get a Greinke/Verlander/Hernandez like deal.

#32 mike wants wins

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 08:30 AM

"if", I love your optimism guys.....
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#33 biggentleben

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 08:32 AM

Out of curiosity, can they afford him in the long term? You have to think he'll get a Greinke/Verlander/Hernandez like deal.


They could, especially with the expected influx of income from the new stadium, but it'd sure help if a new owner stepped up and bought out Liberty Media because they have no incentive to fight the current TV deal (rated the 2nd worst television contract in MLB by Sports Business Journal) whereas a new owner would likely be looking to start new and prefer the opportunity at higher income over the stability of a set contract. The Braves have only the money they put forth this offseason going forward, and most of those contracts will leave plenty of spending room to fill out a roster. It will be interesting to see how the money starts to work going forward as they anticipate their new stadium's revenues.
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#34 mike wants wins

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 08:33 AM

Twins need to do reasonably well this year to sell seats. Otherwise after this year it will be a disaster until they turn things around. I hope decisions will be made for the good of the club, not players given a chance to prove themselves because of prior track records. Take the best 25 north and don't worry about the fallout. If the Twins fall out early, then move all the veterans you can to make room for the future.



Just curious, do you really think the veterans on this roster are that much better than the youth available? Kubel? Suzuki? Pressly (the CF one, not sure I spelled it correctly). Willingham as an OF?
Lighten up Francis....

#35 Jim Crikket

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 08:33 AM

I think you all are missing the obvious. The Twins are going to trade KC and May to the Rays for Price and then sign him to a long term contract!

Let's get this rumor mill churning!
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#36 mike wants wins

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 08:35 AM

I'd say that if they have an offer for KC right now, not sure why they aren't taking it. If the offer includes a viable prospect at all, that's worth more than 15 starts from KC over 15 from random starter (this year at least).
Lighten up Francis....

#37 Monkeypaws

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 08:54 AM

I'd say that if they have an offer for KC right now, not sure why they aren't taking it. If the offer includes a viable prospect at all, that's worth more than 15 starts from KC over 15 from random starter (this year at least).


I think you answered your own question. If.

If the offer is AAAA castoffs, why bother?

If there even is an offer.

#38 biggentleben

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 09:10 AM

I think you all are missing the obvious. The Twins are going to trade KC and May to the Rays for Price and then sign him to a long term contract!

Let's get this rumor mill churning!


Trade rumor fail: does not include Duensing.
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#39 twinssouth

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 09:47 AM

First timer guys; heading down to ST next week to take in Minor Leaguers and see the new, expanded Hammond. My 4th trip and first time going the last week of training. Good timing on the post. Read earlier where Gibson is scheduled to start later in week. I thought it rather odd, since Deduno, Worley, Diamond supposedly fighting it out for 5th. Gibson has options, other's don't. If Gibson proves himself, wouldn't surprise me they trade Correria and May to get a SS or stop gap Center fielder which sounds like a mess right now, as Pressley and Hicks aren't setting the world on fire.

#40 Cris E

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 09:50 AM

Reality check: The more moving parts there are the less likely it is to happen. In this case there are more starters than roles, so the easiest path to clarity is a simple move like sending Diamond to OAK. He gets a chance, they shore up the rotation, MN picks up a prospect (hopefully a MI.)

#41 tobi0040

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 09:58 AM

Trade rumor fail: does not include Duensing.


These are Star Trib type proposals. But they are serious on the Tribune. I wonder if they will get the same haul for Price as they did for Shields. Price is better but that was a great haul. Prospects #3 and 35 overall, plus some throw ins.

Why KC did that deal without an extension is beyone me.

#42 biggentleben

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 10:10 AM

These are Star Trib type proposals. But they are serious on the Tribune. I wonder if they will get the same haul for Price as they did for Shields. Price is better but that was a great haul. Prospects #3 and 35 overall, plus some throw ins.

Why KC did that deal without an extension is beyone me.


It's an old BYTO meme, sorry for those who weren't familiar.
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#43 Trautmann13

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 10:26 AM

I don't know about this one. A Correia trade is almost certain to happen at some time this year, but to the Rays? and with May? If May would to be included, it would be to get more from the Rays, clearly. But what are they looking at, exactly? Honestly, I would rather see them get a major league ready SS if they could, but that is most likely asking too much for Correia/May and from the hitterless Rays

#44 biggentleben

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 10:26 AM

These are Star Trib type proposals. But they are serious on the Tribune. I wonder if they will get the same haul for Price as they did for Shields. Price is better but that was a great haul. Prospects #3 and 35 overall, plus some throw ins.

Why KC did that deal without an extension is beyone me.


To address your actual comment, Kansas City really threw in a lot of redundancy and stagnation in their system. I understand that a lot of names were there, but Myers and Odorizzi were the headline players in the deal, and for 2 years of Shields and a cost-controlled Wade Davis, I can get why they did that. Mike Montgomery had really stagnated in their system after surgery and Patrick Leonard was really a throw-in prospect that the Rays were hoping would bloom (and early returns are pretty poor).

Price is a more elite-talent pitcher, but Shields has proven to be one of the most (if not THE most) durable pitchers in the game, so it depends on what you value in making a proposal. If I'm the Rays talking with the Twins, for example, I try to get one of Buxton/Sano in the deal, and then push for Alex Meyer, knowing I'll likely end up "settling" for a Berrios type as the secondary piece behind Sano/Buxton. Then, you add in probably one more top 15-20 prospect, and you're at a reasonable proposal. A team like the Braves can offer more "major-league ready" talent in a deal, but would have to offer more prospects because of the lack of guys like Buxton/Sano in their system.
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#45 longstrangetrip

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 10:34 AM

I'm not saying that the Twins rotation will be dominant this year, but they certainly are deeper than any recent year I can remember. Having multiple options for the 4th and 5th starters gives them the luxury of trades to teams more desperate for starting pitching. My instinct is to delay any trades until mid-summer, when a guy like Correia might seem very attractive to a contender with a beat-up staff. The only problem with that strategy is my concern that Correia's good season last year might have been a mirage. Pitchers don't usually improve when they migrate to the American League. But maybe his improved numbers have something to do with pitching at TF. I guess I would be open to trading Correia now if the return were very attractive. Absent that, I would prefer to wait until mid-summer.

#46 tobi0040

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 10:38 AM

It's an old BYTO meme, sorry for those who weren't familiar.


What is BYTO? I have heard it referenced a few times.

#47 biggentleben

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 10:41 AM

What is BYTO? I have heard it referenced a few times.


Battle Your Tail Off. It's a discussion forum that Brock headed up for years with a group who moved together from ESPN's old message boards to the site. It was merged into Twins Daily when Brock came on board here, and a lot of the members of this forum come from that old website.
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#48 tobi0040

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 11:09 AM

To address your actual comment, Kansas City really threw in a lot of redundancy and stagnation in their system. I understand that a lot of names were there, but Myers and Odorizzi were the headline players in the deal, and for 2 years of Shields and a cost-controlled Wade Davis, I can get why they did that. Mike Montgomery had really stagnated in their system after surgery and Patrick Leonard was really a throw-in prospect that the Rays were hoping would bloom (and early returns are pretty poor).

Price is a more elite-talent pitcher, but Shields has proven to be one of the most (if not THE most) durable pitchers in the game, so it depends on what you value in making a proposal. If I'm the Rays talking with the Twins, for example, I try to get one of Buxton/Sano in the deal, and then push for Alex Meyer, knowing I'll likely end up "settling" for a Berrios type as the secondary piece behind Sano/Buxton. Then, you add in probably one more top 15-20 prospect, and you're at a reasonable proposal. A team like the Braves can offer more "major-league ready" talent in a deal, but would have to offer more prospects because of the lack of guys like Buxton/Sano in their system.


An equivalent trade would have been either Buxton or Sano, and Alex Meyer (#3 prospect plus #35).

If the Twins did that trade for a guy that may only play for us for two years, I would be irate. I would not have liked that deal even with an extension. But I could at least understand it.

If he refuses to sign an extension with the Royals, they may end up dumping him with a year or 3 months left and they won't get near the return that gave up.

#49 Jim Crikket

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 11:44 AM

These are Star Trib type proposals.


Oh OUCH! I've had some nasty things said about me, but this might be the worst. Where's a moderator when you need one!? :)
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#50 tobi0040

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 11:51 AM

Oh OUCH! I've had some nasty things said about me, but this might be the worst. Where's a moderator when you need one!? :)


LOL. The best tribune proposals usually involved Nick Punto and a B level prospect for a guy like Albert Pujols, circa 2008.

#51 Jim Crikket

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 12:02 PM

Having multiple options for the 4th and 5th starters gives them the luxury of trades to teams more desperate for starting pitching. My instinct is to delay any trades until mid-summer, when a guy like Correia might seem very attractive to a contender with a beat-up staff. The only problem with that strategy is my concern that Correia's good season last year might have been a mirage. Pitchers don't usually improve when they migrate to the American League. But maybe his improved numbers have something to do with pitching at TF. I guess I would be open to trading Correia now if the return were very attractive. Absent that, I would prefer to wait until mid-summer.


I don't think we're seeing as many lopsided trades at the deadline as we used to. Teams have been hoarding their top prospects. The idea is to trade from a position of strength, regardless of when that situation exists. It seems absurd to even type this, but IF the Twins are seen by others as having surplus MLB-level starting pitching, then now is not a bad time to cash in on that via trade. Starting pitchers are dropping like flies and maybe two-thirds of the teams see themselves as potential contenders. Chances are, that will not be the case in July.

The last days of Spring Training, teams will be cutting players to get to 25 men. That could, somewhat, flood the market with potential #5 starters. Right now, teams finding themselves unexpectedly short on SPs may be wanting to acquire a guy that they can at least get in to their own camp for a couple of starts before ST is over.

Long winded way of saying, since the Twins appear to have a surplus of healthy potential #5 SPs at a time when several teams may be looking to add some depth at that position... AND the Twins have a couple of guys who are out of options... AND most of their SP depth haven't completely stunk the place up this spring, this may be the perfect time to make a deal.

Edited by Jim Crikket, 18 March 2014 - 12:05 PM.
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#52 The Wise One

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 12:06 PM

Correia would probably not go anywhere except as a you take him in a trade if you want player X. If there was a player in the Rays organization that the Twins wanted and the price was May perhaps the Twins were saying you have to take Correia, also. I do not know which hole they would be trying to fill, but the last power hitter they got from them was the poster child for unfulfilled potential.

#53 jokin

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 12:10 PM

I don't think we're seeing as many lopsided trades at the deadline as we used to. Teams have been hoarding their top prospects. The idea is to trade from a position of strength, regardless of when that situation exists. It seems absurd to even type this, but IF the Twins are seen by others as having surplus MLB-level starting pitching, then now is not a bad time to cash in on that via trade. Starting pitchers are dropping like flies and maybe two-thirds of the teams see themselves as potential contenders. Chances are, that will not be the case in July.

The last days of Spring Training, teams will be cutting players to get to 25 men. That could, somewhat, flood the market with potential #5 starters. Right now, teams finding themselves unexpectedly short on SPs may be wanting to acquire a guy that they can at least get in to their own camp for a couple of starts before ST is over.

Long winded way of saying, since the Twins appear to have a surplus of healthy potential #5 SPs at a time when several teams may be looking to add some depth at that position... AND the Twins have a couple of guys who are out of options... AND most of their SP depth haven't completely stunk the place up this spring... this may be the perfect time to make a deal.


You nailed it, JC. It's hard to imagine a situation where Correia would draw more in trade than he would this week. (And it still won't be all that much, but it will serve to bust the logjam, just like in the case of Doumit- Get.Her.Done.)

#54 The Wise One

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 12:15 PM

Although there are a rash of starting pitchers getting injured for the season one would think a contending club would have a reasonable plan A and Plan B. It would take issues with three pitchers to get them in trade mode for Correia. Now a near ready MLB pitcher with options remaining could be valuable to a club with a pitcher dropping or under performing. A B level pitcher might fetch an A- position player

#55 Winston Smith

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 12:27 PM

LOL. The best tribune proposals usually involved Nick Punto and a B level prospect for a guy like Albert Pujols, circa 2008.


The Angels might do that trade about now.

May all our prospects be All Stars and the beer be free.


#56 Halsey Hall

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 01:24 PM

I asked Anderson today about a possible Correia trade and he couldn't believe it. "Where'd ya hear that?". No, he's not being traded.

#57 tobi0040

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 01:28 PM

I asked Anderson today about a possible Correia trade and he couldn't believe it. "Where'd ya hear that?". No, he's not being traded.


Respectfully, he is not going to say "we are working on a deal with Tampa Bay right now and it will hopefully be finalized by Thursday".

I don't think his start moving now had anything to do with a deal. But I think it is almost a lock he is moved before July. When it depends on when TR thinks he has the best offer. Could be now or it could be in April, July, or somewhere in between.

#58 Halsey Hall

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 01:34 PM

It could be later but there won't be any trading now for anyone in the rotation, that'd be crazy. The rotation is the best thing going on this team now. But if we can't score runs, might as well trade them all in July.

#59 spycake

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 01:46 PM

I love any info we can get from Florida (Thrylos, Hallsey, etc, you guys are awesome), but the fact that Tampa was scouting our only two 40 man roster pitchers in this particular game is a pretty weak basis for a trade rumor.

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 03:34 PM

I love any info we can get from Florida (Thrylos, Hallsey, etc, you guys are awesome), but the fact that Tampa was scouting our only two 40 man roster pitchers in this particular game is a pretty weak basis for a trade rumor.

So you're saying it wouldn't be out of the ordinary for a scout to be watching a baseball game during spring training? Interesting theory.