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Terry Ryan and Gardy

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#1 spideyo

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 07:01 AM

I know not everyone is thrilled with some of the moves made so far, but I seem to recall that the last few years, a lot of people bitched because the Twins weren't willing to do much in FA, didn't make many in-season moves, and trotted the same guys out even if they were struggling. Let's recap what's happened just since the season started 20 days ago: Brought Hendricks and Swarzak into the rotation (instead of making Duensing a spot starter AGAIN) Let it be known that Liriano is skipping a start so he can get his head screwed on right Given Plouffe another chance to make it as an infielder (while simultaneously reminding Casilla he could lose his starting job AGAIN) Claimed Clete Thomas DFA'ed Luke Hughes (while I'm not thrilled with this move, it did show they are willing to send away a guy who isn't having the immediate impact they want) Sent Revere to AAA so he could play every day Gave Parmelee starts at 1b, RF, and LF Kept Mauer in EVERY game Let The Hammer break up the M&M boys. Wether you agree with all the moves and lineup choices they made or not, you've got to admit that they do seem more willing to do things this year that they really haven't in past years. We might have a very different 25-man roster by August 1, but unlike last year, I think it will be far more deliberate and intentional, rather than just plugging the injury-caused holes with unfinished prospects and AAAA players.

#2 spideyo

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 07:02 AM

oh, and despite everyone's expectations, Butera is STILL at AAA

#3 Gernzy

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 07:17 AM

They are making good moves. I like Duensing in the bullpen because he has been doing a good job. It's not their fault that our starting pitching is horrible right now. For the most part offense and defense have been fine. Besides having Parmelee in LF on Monday. I was at that game and my seats are in section 225 so I had a good view of him. He seemed alittle lost out there, but at least he plans better in RF.
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#4 Mr. Ed

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 07:23 AM

They need to be willing to make moves. 5-13 is nothing to hang your hat on. All possibilities need to be explored, given the "depth" of starting pitching in the system.

#5 Mr. Ed

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 07:25 AM

Clete Thomas' signing is only a good move, if he's played less. 13 strikeouts in 22 at bats?

#6 Boom Boom

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 07:49 AM

They are making good moves. I like Duensing in the bullpen because he has been doing a good job. It's not their fault that our starting pitching is horrible right now. For the most part offense and defense have been fine. Besides having Parmelee in LF on Monday. I was at that game and my seats are in section 225 so I had a good view of him. He seemed alittle lost out there, but at least he plans better in RF.


Ryan assembled that pitching staff.

#7 TwinsFanLV

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 08:00 AM

The Twins are 5-13. Worrying about whether Parmalee belongs in Left Field is like trying to put out a forest fire with a squirt gun. This team needs to change it's culture. Assuming the Pohlads won't sell the team, the first step needed is to fire Terry Ryan and start from scratch. Any player can be traded, including Mauer, if another team is willing to take on his contract.

#8 powrwrap

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 08:30 AM

I agree with you that they are reacting quicker and making more moves, but my impression is that they are nibbling at the edges. Plouffe playing for Casilla is a nice move but I don't believe that Casilla feels that his starting job is in jeopardy, he's had what, four tries at it so far? They need to do something that will really send a message. I would suggest that they: 1. Send Liriano down to AA or even A ball if he stinks again. Bring Diamond up, he's 4-0 with a 1.07 ERA and a 1.03 WHIP. Could he do worse than Liriano? 2. Send Valencia down to Rochester if he continues to be un-coachable. Play Burroughs. Bring Luke Hughes up and work him out at 3B. 3. If Capps fails again (only a matter of time) promote Perkins to closer. Make some significant noise, send some real messages. If I were a player and I saw how much failure someone else can endure with hardly any consequences, why should I be worried about my status? Coupled with last year's practice of players telling the coaching staff they would rather not play there is little reason for players to feel their job is threatened.

Edited by powrwrap, 25 April 2012 - 08:46 AM.

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#9 Mr. Ed

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 08:38 AM

I agree with you that they are reacting quicker and making more moves, but my impression is that they are nibbling at the edges. Plouffe playing for Casilla is a nice move but I don't believe that Casilla feels that his starting job is in jeopardy, he's had what, four tries at it so far? They need to do something that will really send a message. I would suggest that they:

1. Send Liriano down to AA or even A ball if he stinks again. Bring Diamond up, he's 4-0 with a 1.07 ERA and a 1.03 WHIP. Could he do worse than Liriano?
2. Send Valencia down to Rochester if he continues to be un-coachable. Play Burroughs. Bring Luke Hughes up and work him out at 3B.
3. If Capps fails again (only a matter of time) promote Perkins to closer.

Make some significant noise, send some real messages. If I were a player and I saw how much failure someone else can endure with hardly any consequences, why should I be worried about my status? Coupled with last year's practice of player's telling the coaching staff they would rather not play there is little reason for players to feel their job is threatened.



Luke Hughes is in Oakland, with 3 errors at 3rd in his first 2 games,making him more un-coachable for the Twins than Valencia allegedly is. ;)

And no, Diamond could not do any worse than Liriano or Blackburn. Or basically any other starter they've thrown out there.

#10 DAM DC Twins Fans

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 08:53 AM

I agree with you that they are reacting quicker and making more moves, but my impression is that they are nibbling at the edges. Plouffe playing for Casilla is a nice move but I don't believe that Casilla feels that his starting job is in jeopardy, he's had what, four tries at it so far? They need to do something that will really send a message. I would suggest that they:

1. Send Liriano down to AA or even A ball if he stinks again. Bring Diamond up, he's 4-0 with a 1.07 ERA and a 1.03 WHIP. Could he do worse than Liriano?
2. Send Valencia down to Rochester if he continues to be un-coachable. Play Burroughs. Bring Luke Hughes up and work him out at 3B.
3. If Capps fails again (only a matter of time) promote Perkins to closer.

Make some significant noise, send some real messages. If I were a player and I saw how much failure someone else can endure with hardly any consequences, why should I be worried about my status? Coupled with last year's practice of players telling the coaching staff they would rather not play there is little reason for players to feel their job is threatened.


Good concept--bad ideas.

Luke Hughes is not a MLB quality player anywhere and he is gone. Liriano seems to have a good inning to start--that tells me he should be sent to the pen--not to Rochester or New Britain. Yes, bring Diamond up why not, get rid of Blackburn...

But the big move--bring up Dozier--put him at SS--put Carroll at 2B.

#11 ltwedt

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 09:12 AM

... It's not their fault that our starting pitching is horrible right now.


Then whose is it????????????? They fiddled wile the FA market burned, and now it's time to pay the piper - trouble is, there is NO ONE available, and NO help in the minors - they were all here last year, and the result??? - 99-63!!!

#12 powrwrap

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 09:14 AM

My bad, I was not aware that Luke Hughes had been cut. Liriano could go to the pen but then he has no trade value come July. He needs to get his act together as a starter.

But the big move--bring up Dozier--put him at SS--put Carroll at 2B.


Who plays 3B? Please don't say Valencia...
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#13 Thrylos

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 09:16 AM

Bring Diamond up, he's 4-0 with a 1.07 ERA and a 1.03 WHIP. Could he do worse than Liriano?
.


Yes. His peripherals, other than BB/9, HR/9 and BABIP, which are less than last season, are the same as last season. When they regress to the mean he will be the same pitcher he was last season. And that is worse than Liriano. Heck, Blackburn last night was worse than Liriano
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#14 Gernzy

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 09:26 AM

What I was saying is it's not the front office's fault the pitching is doing bad. Do I blame your boss when you do a horrible job at work? No. What moves could they have made? Oswalt had no interest in coming here. We weren't getting to spend money on Edwin Jackson (plus I really don't think he's that great.) List me some players would could have taken and not spent close to 10 million on. This team will never spend a ton of money on a free agent pitcher.
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#15 Boom Boom

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 09:36 AM

What I was saying is it's not the front office's fault the pitching is doing bad. Do I blame your boss when you do a horrible job at work? No.

What moves could they have made? Oswalt had no interest in coming here. We weren't getting to spend money on Edwin Jackson (plus I really don't think he's that great.) List me some players would could have taken and not spent close to 10 million on. This team will never spend a ton of money on a free agent pitcher.


And that's where I'm disagreeing with you. It IS partially the front office's fault that the pitching is bad. Even with Baker healthy this was a dangerously thin rotation, and the bullpen has been rebuilt for the second year in a row on the cheap. You might not blame my boss if I do a horrible job, but you could blame my boss for hiring me to do something I'm not good at or unqualified for, and then continuing to put me in that position.

It's not just about what they didn't do in the last offseason. Since Santana was traded this team has not done enough to strengthen their pitching staff.

#16 Mr. Ed

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 09:48 AM

And that's where I'm disagreeing with you. It IS partially the front office's fault that the pitching is bad. Even with Baker healthy this was a dangerously thin rotation, and the bullpen has been rebuilt for the second year in a row on the cheap. You might not blame my boss if I do a horrible job, but you could blame my boss for hiring me to do something I'm not good at or unqualified for, and then continuing to put me in that position.

It's not just about what they didn't do in the last offseason. Since Santana was traded this team has not done enough to strengthen their pitching staff.


Exactly. Where have the moves been made to DRAFT power pitchers? Where have the moves been made to make a trade or 2?

Instead they've thrown their focus far too often on trying to fix the bullpen.

And we're still at a point where pitching depth, starters and bullpen, are thin at the top2 levels in the organization.

#17 Thrylos

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 10:09 AM

What moves could they have made? .


Admit that it was a rebuilding season; not signing Marquis/Willingham/Carroll and re-signing Capps; trading Pavano/Span/Baker/Liriano (and anyone with trade value) this off-season for prospects; and rebuilt.
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#18 Shane Wahl

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 10:23 AM

Wow people make it sound so easy to be a GM and a manager! Who knew it was so easy!? Spideyo is generally correct here. Thrylos, rebuild with what this year? They could rebuild with Parmelee, Dozier and MAYBE Benson, but that doesn't seem like enough to rebuild as opposed to finding Carroll-esque stop gaps for 1-2 years while the above three get truly ready, Hicks gets there, Revere proves more, Tosoni, Herrmann, Gibson, Wimmers, Gutierrez get ready, etc. If everyone mentioned would have been at Rochester last year, then rebuilding would have been possible. Otherwise your rebuilding plan would involve throwing a whole bunch of AA guys out there.

#19 Gernzy

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 10:38 AM

This will be a big draft for the Twins since we do need to focus on pitching. Twins have made moves to improve the rotation and bullpen, just not many, and some where horrible. For example the Hoey trade, which I hated from day one. That was a complete waste. The Pavano deal was good. He has been one of our most steady pitchers. What other moves were they going to make with all the potental starters we have? Unless we completely rebuild as Thrylos said. I understand why we didn't pick anyone up, and I feel people are placing blame when they shouldn't be. You can't plan on everyone doing bad. All these starters haven't been that bad in the past. Wait until next season to really start hating the front office. We are going to have a different staff
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#20 Thrylos

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 10:40 AM

Thrylos, rebuild with what this year? They could rebuild with Parmelee, Dozier and MAYBE Benson, but that doesn't seem like enough to rebuild as opposed to finding Carroll-esque stop gaps for 1-2 years while the above three get truly ready, Hicks gets there, Revere proves more, Tosoni, Herrmann, Gibson, Wimmers, Gutierrez get ready, etc. If everyone mentioned would have been at Rochester last year, then rebuilding would have been possible. Otherwise your rebuilding plan would involve throwing a whole bunch of AA guys out there.


Part of the rebuilding blocks would have come by trades. As I said:

trading Pavano/Span/Baker/Liriano (and anyone with trade value) this off-season.


They have to re-build their SP next season. This is a fact. They could have started this season (and save some $ to throw at some free agent SPs next off-season too).

Here is a thought:
Take a lineup of Revere CF, Benson RF, Tosoni/Mastroianni/Dinkelman LF, Parmelee 1B, Casilla 2B, Dozier SS, Valencia 3B, Mauer C, Morneau DH
a pitching rotation of Hendriks/Swarzak/Blackburn and a couple people in the afforementioned (Pavano/Span/Baker/Liriano etc) trades and
a pen of Perkins as the closer, Tyler Robertson, Burnett, Duensing, Deolis Guerra, Lester Oliveros and maybe a couple people who would have come in trades or other AAA guys.

would that team be much worse than 5-12 at this point? how much more? 3-14? Would that matter that much? OR Would the extra experience for these guys, the extra $ saved towards a good SP next season, the prospects and the extra draft pick (from Capps) matter more? I do think so.
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