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Based on Spring Training Results?

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#1 Riverbrian

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Posted 14 March 2014 - 11:51 AM

Right or Wrong... I always believe that Spring Training numbers don't carry a ton of weight because I think the Front Office and Manager have a pretty good idea who is going North with the club before ST starts.

But... In consideration of the battle for the #5 spot in the rotation.

Thus far... Doesn't it appear that Deduno is in the pole position.

Worley has struggled so far and Diamond hasn't been grabbing the spot with both hands.

Plenty can happen between now and opening day. But...
A Skeleton walks into a bar and says... "Give me a beer... And a mop".

#2 Since71

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Posted 14 March 2014 - 12:01 PM

Totally agree! I am surprised how good Deduno has been. I really didn't think he would be ready coming off the shoulder surgery. Not only has he been better, but I believe his upside is much higher than either of the other two.

#3 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 14 March 2014 - 12:16 PM

I think the spot is Deduno's to lose at this point.

#4 twinsnorth49

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Posted 14 March 2014 - 12:25 PM

So far it's Deduno, still time for the other guys to give people something to think about though, which I have to think the team wants considering age and options.

#5 ChiTownTwinsFan

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Posted 14 March 2014 - 12:32 PM

I think they are going to put Deduno in the pen, and I'm not opposed to that. I think Gibson will have the 5th spot and who knows what will be of Diamond and Worley.
When life gives you lemons, suck on them and persevere.

#6 Riverbrian

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Posted 14 March 2014 - 12:38 PM

I think they are going to put Deduno in the pen, and I'm not opposed to that. I think Gibson will have the 5th spot and who knows what will be of Diamond and Worley.


You may be right... Deduno has been getting relief appearances thus far... Yet.. He is getting multiple innings which indicates stretching him out as well.
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#7 Steve Lein

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Posted 14 March 2014 - 02:00 PM

I would hope it's Deduno, but I think he'll be put in the 'pen to start the year. Once he's fully up to speed I would assume he'd be the first guy to takeover whatever SP spot opens up. I think Worley will be given the first chance at the 5 spot, and unless Diamond can fit in the 'pen too, he might be gone.

I think they are going to have to lose (or risk losing) Worley or Diamond no matter which route they take.

But I'd rather Gibson get the spot over anybody, regardless of "options," "performance in ST," etc...

Scouting Report: Power: 30, Hitting: 50, Arm: 60, Defense: 40, Speed: 40. "Line drive swing and shows good contact and on-base abilities. Double's power at his peak. Strong arm from 2B or the OF, stiff hands. Not a fast runner, but above average instincts on the bases. Skinny body doesn't look the part, but can sneak up on you. ACL surgery sapped much of his athleticism." (Probably)


#8 ChiTownTwinsFan

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Posted 14 March 2014 - 02:05 PM

You may be right... Deduno has been getting relief appearances thus far... Yet.. He is getting multiple innings which indicates stretching him out as well.

I think he's in the pen and only used as a starter sparingly, if a need arises. Really unsure about who the 5th will go to, but I just think it'll be Gibson.
When life gives you lemons, suck on them and persevere.

#9 Since71

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Posted 14 March 2014 - 02:15 PM

I think they are going to put Deduno in the pen, and I'm not opposed to that. I think Gibson will have the 5th spot and who knows what will be of Diamond and Worley.

You may be right and I think that was the original thinking about Deduno. Now I think he may be showing enough health to grab the 5th spot which allows them to put the better of Diamond/Worley in the pen. I too hope Gibson starts the year in Minn but because he has options I am guessing he starts in Rochester

#10 TheLeviathan

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Posted 14 March 2014 - 02:22 PM

I think the idea that Gibson makes the rotation is based on hope. It's a hope I share but I don't see any scenario, barring a pile of injuries in two weeks, that makes that happen.

I'm almost positive it will be Deduno with Worley going to the pen. To me, the question is if Diamond makes the pen too.

#11 Since71

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Posted 14 March 2014 - 02:32 PM

I think the idea that Gibson makes the rotation is based on hope. It's a hope I share but I don't see any scenario, barring a pile of injuries in two weeks, that makes that happen.

I'm almost positive it will be Deduno with Worley going to the pen. To me, the question is if Diamond makes the pen too.

Agreed. I can't see a team with the most optimistic upside of being 81 wins giving up on guys with no options and possible trade value for a guy who has options/is on the team control clock.

#12 ChiTownTwinsFan

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Posted 14 March 2014 - 02:34 PM

Yeah, I think my Gibson at the 5th is more hope. If he's not on the team he's first in line when someone falters, Diamond or Worley. I just think Deduno throws too many pitches and will end up in the pen and stay there except for a spot start here and there. I don't think his shoulder will allow for more than that. Just my gut feeling.
When life gives you lemons, suck on them and persevere.

#13 alskntwnsfn

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Posted 14 March 2014 - 02:51 PM

I think they are going to put Deduno in the pen, and I'm not opposed to that. I think Gibson will have the 5th spot and who knows what will be of Diamond and Worley.


I don't know. He's not a guy you can bring in with guys on base because he can be wild and I think it takes him a few batters to settle in. In any event, he's not a good choice for high-leverage innings. I think its a much better approach to hand him the ball at the beginning of a game and let him do his thing for 100 pitches, however far that gets us. I did hear one of the Twins brass talking about how they don't like the fact that Deduno runs through his pitch count so fast that they worry about taxing the bullpen. Still, when he's on he is an elite pitcher so I hope they give him a chance at the rotation, and just take the good with the bad.

#14 Halsey Hall

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Posted 14 March 2014 - 03:03 PM

I'd take Deduno with no hesitation. He will give us a chance to win every game, IF, we can score runs. But I'm not impressed at all with this team this season. It's gonna be another long one.

#15 Thrylos

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Posted 14 March 2014 - 03:11 PM

My take on this is here, and I still think that Diamond is the old man out...
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#16 cmathewson

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Posted 14 March 2014 - 03:17 PM

I agree that Deduno has been lights out this spring. But it's interesting that he has done all his work out of the pen to date. I wouldn't be surprised if they go north with Gibson in the five spot and Deduno as the swing man out of the pen, just to save his arm for later in the season.
"If you'da been thinkin' you wouldn't 'a thought that.."

#17 ashburyjohn

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Posted 14 March 2014 - 03:36 PM

Makes him a decent candidate for a left-handed long reliever with the occasional spot start. I think that's where it could end up.


Is he versatile enough to take up throwing southpaw at his age?

Or, maybe you're saying that if Deduno's in the rotation, you want Diamond in the bullpen as his designated reliever?

;)

#18 TKGuy

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Posted 14 March 2014 - 06:31 PM

I hope that Deduno goes to the pen and Gibson goes north as the 5th starter. Time to cut bait on Worley and Diamond

#19 stringer bell

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Posted 14 March 2014 - 06:34 PM

I'd take Deduno with no hesitation. He will give us a chance to win every game, IF, we can score runs. But I'm not impressed at all with this team this season. It's gonna be another long one.

I think Deduno has all but earned a spot, but that Gibson can force him to the 'pen.

#20 alskntwnsfn

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Posted 14 March 2014 - 07:09 PM

I agree that Deduno has been lights out this spring. But it's interesting that he has done all his work out of the pen to date. I wouldn't be surprised if they go north with Gibson in the five spot and Deduno as the swing man out of the pen, just to save his arm for later in the season.


I'd be fine with this too. I think its almost likely that Gibson and Deduno spend some time in the pen this year.

#21 twinsnorth49

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Posted 14 March 2014 - 07:20 PM

Is he versatile enough to take up throwing southpaw at his age?

Or, maybe you're saying that if Deduno's in the rotation, you want Diamond in the bullpen as his designated reliever?

;)


Lol, complete brain cramp, it's been a long day. Take the left handed part out and my opinion stands........doh!!!!

#22 BigTrane

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 10:26 AM

I understand the support for Diamond, but I'm a big Deduno fan. As I saw it, his problem was just one of control (reminded me of Liriano in that sense), and he's been great this spring. Been hoping he would make the #5 spot all along.

If he spells in the pen while someone else gets a second look, then fine. But if Deduno continues with what he's doing, he'll get that spot eventually. Or, he should.
Feel free to pile on about Suzuki.

#23 BigTrane

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 10:36 AM

Just as a toss-in/FWIW...

Obviously this thread is focused on pitching, yet the subject line begs other questions...

The bright spot in ST has clearly been the pitching, and nothing could make me happier.
Except, maybe, for Big D and smart baserunning.

So far, SS seems like a black hole and the unearned runs from that position alone are cringe-worthy. Baserunning is non-existant, not even station-to-station standard.

I feel very optimistic about our pitching, and that is a sea change- Hughes' curve as an out-pitch, for example- but if we can't run the bases and score runs, we're screwed. Poor defense is not Twins baseball, and we've never had a noteworthy running game. Hoping that will turn around, because we will need every single run we can manufacture.
Feel free to pile on about Suzuki.

#24 Riverbrian

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 04:46 PM

Just as a toss-in/FWIW...

Obviously this thread is focused on pitching, yet the subject line begs other questions...

The bright spot in ST has clearly been the pitching, and nothing could make me happier.
Except, maybe, for Big D and smart baserunning.

So far, SS seems like a black hole and the unearned runs from that position alone are cringe-worthy. Baserunning is non-existant, not even station-to-station standard.

I feel very optimistic about our pitching, and that is a sea change- Hughes' curve as an out-pitch, for example- but if we can't run the bases and score runs, we're screwed. Poor defense is not Twins baseball, and we've never had a noteworthy running game. Hoping that will turn around, because we will need every single run we can manufacture.


I agree with you all the way around. Add to the list... Lack of Power so far in spring as a continuation of the lack of power in 2013 and I'm offensively nervous.

Hopefully things turn around. Lack of power and Lack of speed is not a good combo.

As for Deduno... I'm a big believer. I think he should grab the 5th spot and if he gets it... He will be our top starter.
A Skeleton walks into a bar and says... "Give me a beer... And a mop".

#25 jorgenswest

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 04:59 PM

The a Twins can't be so foolish to base any roster decision on spring training numbers. I hope they don't even look at them. The numbers are worthless in projecting how any player will perform in 2014.

#26 Halsey Hall

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 06:49 PM

The a Twins can't be so foolish to base any roster decision on spring training numbers. I hope they don't even look at them. The numbers are worthless in projecting how any player will perform in 2014.


So what would you like them to base their decision on? They had better be concerned with some of the numbers so far this spring. And a couple of roster positions could very well be dependent on these numbers. What if Willingham is hitting .085 when we head north. You'd disregard that? I think not.

#27 Guest_USAFChief_*

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 06:54 PM

I agree with you all the way around. Add to the list... Lack of Power so far in spring as a continuation of the lack of power in 2013 and I'm offensively nervous.

Hopefully things turn around. Lack of power and Lack of speed is not a good combo.

As for Deduno... I'm a big believer. I think he should grab the 5th spot and if he gets it... He will be our top starter.

Reminds me of most of my teams. We didn't have much power, but man, we sure couldn't run.

#28 Bark's Lounge

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 07:10 PM

IAs for Deduno... I'm a big believer. I think he should grab the 5th spot and if he gets it... He will be our top starter.


Samuel is going to prove most Twins fans wrong - he will excel as a starting pitcher.

My gut feeling is that Phil Hughes' performance will be a bit better than Deduno's.

I think the Twins will have a 78-82 win season and Deduno, Hughes, and Nolasco will be efficient.

Our offense will be manic... good some days, and atrocious some days as well.

Hopefully the offense can iron out their deficiencies and be better than expected, rather than worse.

There he goes. One of God's own prototypes. Some kind of high powered mutant never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die.


#29 jorgenswest

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 07:50 PM

So what would you like them to base their decision on? They had better be concerned with some of the numbers so far this spring. And a couple of roster positions could very well be dependent on these numbers. What if Willingham is hitting .085 when we head north. You'd disregard that? I think not.


They can't base them on the numbers. They shouldn't even look at the numbers. The sample is far too small and skewed by the varying level of competition. The numbers have no meaning for projecting performance during the season.

They have to rely on what their coaches and scouts see in workouts, practices and games. The talent and ability of their coaches to discern which pitchers they retain and which they designate is critical to their future.

#30 Old Twins Cap

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 08:10 PM

It used to be Ryan's favorite line, then echoed by Gardy: "We'll go as far as our pitching carries us."

And last year, the pitching was very bad, with starters the worst in professional baseball. That's quite a thing: THE WORST in MLB.

This year, the problem is going to be on offense. What were we last year in terms of runs scored, 29th of 30? I think we will have a real problem scoring runs.

The issue is: are we a power team or a speed team? For Gardy, he doesn't like to take outs on the basepaths and so, he doesn't run. But, he has no power. And thus, the problem: stuck between a power paradigm and a speed paradigm, we end up doing neither, and leading the league in not scoring runs.

Doesn't matter how much pitching the Twins have. You need to score runs to win, especially against good pitchers. I don't see it this year. Between a lack of chemistry, a reluctance to run and an inability to hit for power, the Twins are, once again, headed for the basement of the AL.