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Aledmys Diaz

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#21 biggentleben

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 12:55 PM

According to reports, he projects as a utility guy. No big loss.


Completely depends on the report you read. One of the reports that was given to a Baseball Prospectus reporter was that he had a power arm, solid bat, and could play around the infield. I think that last part was interpreted as utility player in a lot of circles, but many have said that he simply has the arm to move to 3rd and the reactions to stick at 2B if he can't play SS, not that he can't play any of them at a starting caliber level.
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#22 jokin

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 01:39 PM

According to reports, he projects as a utility guy. No big loss.



From the reports I've read, you'd have a "utility guy" that has the ball jump off his bat with a power arm who is well beyond the raw stage concerning the skillset for his major league readiness. The only question is whether or not he can stick at SS.

As far as "loss" is concerned, nothing ventured, nothing gained. It would have cost very little to find out if he was the answer at SS or not, plus the Twins had the upper hand over the Cardinals in guaranteeing Diaz a faster path to a major league starting lineup.

#23 jokin

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 01:41 PM

Completely depends on the report you read. One of the reports that was given to a Baseball Prospectus reporter was that he had a power arm, solid bat, and could play around the infield. I think that last part was interpreted as utility player in a lot of circles, but many have said that he simply has the arm to move to 3rd and the reactions to stick at 2B if he can't play SS, not that he can't play any of them at a starting caliber level.


Bingo. Some are too easily dismissive of an organization with a shrewd eye for talent.

#24 mike wants wins

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 01:50 PM

As a 24 year old, Revere put up 3 WAR. Cherry picking his stats to ignore defense doesn't help much. the year before, he put up 1.7 WAR.

He was young, cost controlled, and can really play defense. Not sure what more you want a 23 and 24 year old to do to "prove" he's a MLB player. He also had value.

Whatever, we are off topic. Spending money to acquire prospects is what we are constantly told this team will do. that they aren't cheap anymore. Well, the WS signed a DH that might outhit every Twin not named Mauer this year, and the Cards just signed this guy, and several other Cubans have been signed this year. I'm still waiting for the Twins to spend their money to add prospects when they have the chance.

What I just typed is probably an opinion, not a fact. I mean, I'm usually right, so you should maybe assume it is or will be a fact soon, but that's up to you. :) Also, I am NOT trying to convince anyone I am correct, I'm just talking here, not arguing.


#25 Boom Boom

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 02:01 PM

Maybe this guy isn't all he's cracked up to be. It does make me wonder why the Twins have been so behind on acquiring talent from Cuba. Have they ever signed a Cuban amateur free agent?

#26 biggentleben

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 02:09 PM

Maybe this guy isn't all he's cracked up to be. It does make me wonder why the Twins have been so behind on acquiring talent from Cuba. Have they ever signed a Cuban amateur free agent?


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#27 Boom Boom

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 02:20 PM

Tony Oliva.


I applaud your accuracy.

Anyone in the last fifty years?

#28 savvyspy

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 02:56 PM

St Louis doesn't make a lot of mistakes and I would trust them over the Twins front office and most bloggers. Likely to turn out being a good signing.


Exactly!!! The Cardinals are FAR SUPERIOR to the Twins on all fronts. The bottom line is the Cards understand roster management and are in it to win a championship. The Twins don't do anything better than other teams except trying to maximize the amount of money that is left in the Pohlad's bank account.

I trust St Louis's assessment of Diaz's talent. Most of what I hear from the Twins seems like excuses rather than valid assessment of talent. Every player has flaws, especially when they are young. If your front office philosophy is only signing flawless prospects and minimizing spending you are going to have to get very lucky to be successful.

#29 howieramone1406390264

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 04:28 PM

Exactly!!! The Cardinals are FAR SUPERIOR to the Twins on all fronts. The bottom line is the Cards understand roster management and are in it to win a championship. The Twins don't do anything better than other teams except trying to maximize the amount of money that is left in the Pohlad's bank account.

I trust St Louis's assessment of Diaz's talent. Most of what I hear from the Twins seems like excuses rather than valid assessment of talent. Every player has flaws, especially when they are young. If your front office philosophy is only signing flawless prospects and minimizing spending you are going to have to get very lucky to be successful.


So true. No way they will every have the top rated farm system in baseball.

#30 birdwatcher

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 05:03 PM

I gotta laugh. Here we go again. Someone signs with another team, and out come the ridiculous generalizations about how the Twins don't spend money to acquire prospects. And how so many other teams take financial risks to snatch up the premier talent while we sit on our hands and Jim Pohlad lines his pockets.

It's such total nonsense, my friends. Who signed Sano, the consensus top prospect in his signing year? What about paying Kepler a record amount for a European kid? Who else was there when Thorpe signed for a half-mill? Another half-mill on Barrie last week. Lewin Diaz was a top ten international prospect when we signed him. The year before, it was #7 ranked Amaurys Minier and #22 Silva. They've been investing heavily internationally and we're going to see the dividends: Arcia, Sano, Pinto, Santana,Vargas, Kepler, Polanco, Jorge, Thorpe, Romero, Minier, Barrie.....these prospects are a big part of why the smart guys out there are effusive about our farm system.

So yeah, we can complain about this guy as a missed opportunity, but let's put to bed this silliness that the Twins just won't spend money to land good prospects.

Edited by birdwatcher, 10 March 2014 - 05:05 PM.


#31 nicksaviking

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 05:58 PM

For all we know, Diaz turned down more dollars for fewer years, or vice versa. We don't know his preference, but as the Cardinals showed the most interest and the earliest interest, that may have put him in their pocket money not withstanding.

Still, it did sound like the Twins had no interest in this guy after the age dust up last summer.

However, classifying a guy is a "utility" player is kind of subjective. The Twins have probably given the opening day start to at least one (often two) "utility" middle infielder every year since.....? I'm going to go with Gagne and Knoblauch in 1992.

Edited by nicksaviking, 10 March 2014 - 06:01 PM.


#32 kab21

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 07:01 PM

8M is pretty reasonable for a fringy top 100 prospect. The correct term to use is prospect. It's possible that he is only a utility player just like it's possible that Rosario never makes it as an MLB starter. He could also be a solid MLB player.

Just because a team is willing to spend on prospects doesn't mean that breaking the bank open on fringy prospects is a wise idea. 8M I like but 20-30M on him a little silly from the information that is out there.

#33 mike wants wins

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Posted 11 March 2014 - 07:39 AM

Only if you also admit they have plenty more money to spend, and they are choosing not to spend it. I'll admit they spent big (under Smith) to sign two prospects. But they still have piles and piles of money they could be spending, and are choosing not to spend it. Why should I be happy about that, when what they need is players? Why should I be content to watch good players (the DH in Chicago) sign with other teams, when the Twins have the money but choose not to use it?

As for signing the number 7 and 10 intl prospects.....the Twins have one of the largest allocations in the majors, and have not signed the most expensive guys. Not sure bragging about that makes your point. And it's a pittance compared to what the Cubans cost.

What I just typed is probably an opinion, not a fact. I mean, I'm usually right, so you should maybe assume it is or will be a fact soon, but that's up to you. :) Also, I am NOT trying to convince anyone I am correct, I'm just talking here, not arguing.


#34 howieramone1406390264

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Posted 11 March 2014 - 07:54 AM

Only if you also admit they have plenty more money to spend, and they are choosing not to spend it. I'll admit they spent big (under Smith) to sign two prospects. But they still have piles and piles of money they could be spending, and are choosing not to spend it. Why should I be happy about that, when what they need is players? Why should I be content to watch good players (the DH in Chicago) sign with other teams, when the Twins have the money but choose not to use it?

As for signing the number 7 and 10 intl prospects.....the Twins have one of the largest allocations in the majors, and have not signed the most expensive guys. Not sure bragging about that makes your point. And it's a pittance compared to what the Cubans cost.


Mike, which Cubans should the Twins have signed? They said early on, they were not high on the DH the Sox signed. Maybe right, maybe wrong, it certainly hasn't been determined if he's a good player at this time. Also, do you think the Twins should choose 16 year-olds by who is the most expensive?

Edited by howieramone, 11 March 2014 - 08:07 AM.


#35 mike wants wins

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Posted 11 March 2014 - 08:32 AM

I think they should spend all the money they can to get better. I have no idea how to choose a 16 year old. Justifying that they are spending the most money they can by arguing that signing guys that are less expensive shows they are spending the most money they can seems off to me. The Cubs and others are going over their allottment to sign lots of the top guys, not just one. We don't have perfect information, we can only go by what the rankers say about these 16 year olds. And, they say that other teams are spending more money to buy more of the top ranked guys.

You clearly are accepting of their approach to get better. I clearly am not. Not sure why that bothers you and birdwatcher so much, that people disagree with you.

Edited by mike wants wins, 11 March 2014 - 08:35 AM.

What I just typed is probably an opinion, not a fact. I mean, I'm usually right, so you should maybe assume it is or will be a fact soon, but that's up to you. :) Also, I am NOT trying to convince anyone I am correct, I'm just talking here, not arguing.


#36 Thrylos

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Posted 11 March 2014 - 09:01 AM

which Cubans should the Twins have signed?


I think that the only can't miss Cuban is some guy who is pitching with the Reds. :)

I don't see any of the others as game changers, Puig included (still he has only one season under his belt). Some of them (Morales, Cespedes) are good major league starting line up material, but that's about it.
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#37 jokin

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Posted 11 March 2014 - 10:07 AM

So true. No way they will every have the top rated farm system in baseball.


Hanging one's hat over and over on such a speculative hat rack is an invitation to failure- and completely misses the point of Savvy's post.

If the money is available, and it clearly is, it's foolish to rest on short-term pundit-based accolades- how many championships does an "award" like that get you?

The Twins should be doing what actual consistently successful teams like the Cards do; what the Cards preach as a huge priority, is building quality depth at every position and then placing their highest priority on properly developing it at an accelerated rate with the best training methods available.

#38 jokin

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Posted 11 March 2014 - 10:14 AM

I think they should spend all the money they can to get better. I have no idea how to choose a 16 year old. Justifying that they are spending the most money they can by arguing that signing guys that are less expensive shows they are spending the most money they can seems off to me. The Cubs and others are going over their allottment to sign lots of the top guys, not just one. We don't have perfect information, we can only go by what the rankers say about these 16 year olds. And, they say that other teams are spending more money to buy more of the top ranked guys.

You clearly are accepting of their approach to get better. I clearly am not. Not sure why that bothers you and birdwatcher so much, that people disagree with you.


And now the Yankees see what the Cubs and Dodgers have done, and they have identified the inefficiencies in this market and have announced their intent to pay through the nose in penalties in order to effectively corner the market on the most promising talent.

Another door closed for the Twins to play catch-up until the institution of an International Draft ever comes to fruition.

#39 howieramone1406390264

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Posted 11 March 2014 - 10:55 AM

Hanging one's hat over and over on such a speculative hat rack is an invitation to failure- and completely misses the point of Savvy's post.

If the money is available, and it clearly is, it's foolish to rest on short-term pundit-based accolades- how many championships does an "award" like that get you?

The Twins should be doing what actual consistently successful teams like the Cards do; what the Cards preach as a huge priority, is building quality depth at every position and then placing their highest priority on properly developing it at an accelerated rate with the best training methods available.

.

I never follow the senior circuit, but continue to catch bits and pieces about the Cardinal Way, and about how our favorite team should adopt their practices. Is there any way you could start a thread outlining these practices, so we can discuss? I have to admit I've always taken references to the Cards, A's, Rays, Cub's etc. as unsubstantiated opportunities of taking unwarranted shots at our favorite team.

#40 birdwatcher

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Posted 11 March 2014 - 11:52 AM

I think they should spend all the money they can to get better. I have no idea how to choose a 16 year old. Justifying that they are spending the most money they can by arguing that signing guys that are less expensive shows they are spending the most money they can seems off to me. The Cubs and others are going over their allottment to sign lots of the top guys, not just one. We don't have perfect information, we can only go by what the rankers say about these 16 year olds. And, they say that other teams are spending more money to buy more of the top ranked guys.

You clearly are accepting of their approach to get better. I clearly am not. Not sure why that bothers you and birdwatcher so much, that people disagree with you.


I'm never bothered with people disagreeing with me. I'm bothered by comments like the ones above from savvy, and yours, too to a lesser degree: "I'm still waiting for the Twins to spend money on prospects when the opportunity arises." It's a comment completely contrary to the reality, mike.

Now, of course you want them to spend all the money they can. You even have said you're entitled to that. But then, you ignore the facts and complain they didn't sign the absolutely most expensive guy? That they instead settled on Lewin Diaz and Amaurys Minier, while ignoring the inaccuracy of your claim by refusing to acknowledge their successes at outbidding everyone for Sano, Kepler, Thorpe, and now Barrie?? Come on, mike. And to complain about not making a strong bid for the one guy the Sox signed? The Sox, who had one of the worst farm systems, and one of the worst records in all of baseball?

And mike, I haven't heard anyone say they're spending "the most money they can". So yes, I think your expectations are very unreasonable and simplistic, too. You claim other teams are spending more money on higher-ranked talent, and that's a false generalization. The Cubs, yes. And what the Cubs did is unethical, and I'm glad the Twins aren't cheaters.

You know, there have been a lot of FA opportunities over the past couple years that we as fans would have liked to see the team pursue, and I have no problem whatsoever with disagreements when the team passes or gets outbid on a specific player, but here's my thought on that: applying a standard of reasonableness (meaning one could accept passing on, say Greinke or accept spending no more than, say $100M in an offseason), IF the Twins had signed enough FA talent over the last two offseason to satisfy almost every other fan but perhaps you :), the team would probably win 87 games in 2014. And, they would be hamstrung financially and competitively in the future, with a roster full of declining, quarrelsome, injured malcontents.

That's why I can accept passing on someone like Drew. We have a 25 win problem, not a 2 win problem, and the only fix is the one underway. It may not be fast enough for you, and it may not empty Jim Pohlad's wallet the way you believe it should, and that's fine. Knock yourself out continuing to make that case, my friend. It won't bother me, honest.:)