Jump to content

Providing independent coverage of the Minnesota Twins.
The same great Twins Daily coverage, now for the Vikings.

The Store


Photo

Article: Payroll and Roster Notes

  • Please log in to reply
40 replies to this topic

#1 Jeremy Nygaard

Jeremy Nygaard

    Twins Database Manager

  • Twins Database Managers
  • 2,133 posts

Posted 09 March 2014 - 01:24 PM

You can view the page at http://www.twinsdail...nd-Roster-Notes

#2 h2oface

h2oface

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 393 posts

Posted 09 March 2014 - 05:23 PM

Virtually the same payroll as last year. Middle of the road and worse starters were signed. If the front office was sincere about winning, they would have actually "spent" more money.

#3 Hosken Bombo Disco

Hosken Bombo Disco

    jamshots, blue darters, and humpback singles

  • Members
  • 1,222 posts

Posted 09 March 2014 - 05:58 PM

Virtually the same payroll as last year. Middle of the road and worse starters were signed. If the front office was sincere about winning, they would have actually "spent" more money.


I wish they had upgraded the offense, but I think the Hughes signing is a shrewd one. I expect him to do very well.

#4 Jeremy Nygaard

Jeremy Nygaard

    Twins Database Manager

  • Twins Database Managers
  • 2,133 posts

Posted 09 March 2014 - 06:04 PM

Yeah, pretty much the same. I had their final payroll last year just a bit over $80m.

I think a big difference, though, is their willingness to spend. They made competitive efforts for both Garza and now, apparently, Santana. Not that there is much they can do with it now - I don't see them blowing by draft and IFA limits - but I think they've set themselves up well to acquire talent next year and have a lot of payroll to throw money at their young studs when they start to get expensive. ("Studs" assuming that Dozier and Arcia progress, Sano returns healthy and Buxton remains all-world. Oh, and Meyer, but he's a Boras guy, so he's seven years from FA regardless.)

#5 stringer bell

stringer bell

    Confirmed Hacker

  • Twins News Team
  • 4,066 posts
  • LocationZumbrota MN

Posted 09 March 2014 - 08:12 PM

I don't want to be provocative, but what were the Twins supposed to do? They have either established players or good prospects at almost every position. They tried to sign a fairly two established catchers and made offers to several starters. They could spend a lot of money extending players, but there really is no reason to do this. They have lost more than 90 games three straight years, they have top talent in their farm system that is mostly a year or more away (the top four prospects haven't played above AA, and only one has played a full (injury marred) season at that level. Premium free agents are going to be a tough sell until the team is truly on the cusp. They have money to spend in coming years, they can probably take on a large contract or two in trade and they have some great prospects getting close. I don't think that means the club should overpay for free agents and I don't think it means they should gut their farm system to acquire top talent via trade. Until this year, it appears that money not spent just went into the Pohlad's pocket. This year, they have shown they will spend. It gives us some hope that the team will spend again next year when the market and the team's situation may be considerably different.

#6 Oxtung

Oxtung

    I don't skinny dip. I chunky dunk.

  • Members
  • 1,522 posts

Posted 09 March 2014 - 11:14 PM

I don't want to be provocative, but what were the Twins supposed to do? They have either established players or good prospects at almost every position. They tried to sign a fairly two established catchers and made offers to several starters. They could spend a lot of money extending players, but there really is no reason to do this. They have lost more than 90 games three straight years, they have top talent in their farm system that is mostly a year or more away (the top four prospects haven't played above AA, and only one has played a full (injury marred) season at that level. Premium free agents are going to be a tough sell until the team is truly on the cusp. They have money to spend in coming years, they can probably take on a large contract or two in trade and they have some great prospects getting close. I don't think that means the club should overpay for free agents and I don't think it means they should gut their farm system to acquire top talent via trade. Until this year, it appears that money not spent just went into the Pohlad's pocket. This year, they have shown they will spend. It gives us some hope that the team will spend again next year when the market and the team's situation may be considerably different.


There are a lot of ways they could use that money:

1) Be creative with contracts. Rework Mauer's deal so that he get's $50 million this season and then only $14 million/year in his last 3 seasons. Front load Nolasco's deal so that the Twins pay him $30 million this season but only owe him $6 million per year the rest of the way. Rework Perkins' deal so that you pay him a bit more this season (say an additional $4 million) but you get a second option year for 2017 at just $4 million again.

2) Offer big money short term deals for great players. Offer Ervin Santana or Matt Garza a 3 year $45 million deal. It's more than he'll get per year on a 5 year deal and he'll have an opportunity to potentially hit FA in a couple more years. The Twins also won't have the big risk of those last few years. Since the Twins won't use that money otherwise the fact that it is an "overpay" is irrelevant.

3) Go hogwild in international free-agency like the Cubs did last offseason.

4) Put that money into adding to your analytics staff. Pay an outside company/Professor to study pitchers health and how minor league arms should be treated to best prevent injuries. Use the company/professor to do a comprehensive study on which type of draftee/IFA turns into MLB pitchers, hitters, fielders, sluggers etc....

5) Pay your minor league players better.

6) View your minor league players as assets and pay for their food and hire nutritional advisors. Pay for therapists to teach the young guys how to deal with stress and pressure and positive thinking.

7) Reduce Season ticket prices.

8) Reduce the cost of concessions at Target Field.

9) Do a big raffle at every home game where one lucky fan wins big money. Say $300,000.

10) Make a giant (and very public) donation to charity. Essentially buy good public relations.

There are some ideas off the top of my head.

Edited by Oxtung, 09 March 2014 - 11:18 PM.


#7 howieramone1406390264

howieramone1406390264

    Banned

  • Banned
  • 715 posts

Posted 09 March 2014 - 11:56 PM

My wife's golf partner is related to one of the Pohlads. She said they are big with Save the Whales.

#8 Oxtung

Oxtung

    I don't skinny dip. I chunky dunk.

  • Members
  • 1,522 posts

Posted 10 March 2014 - 12:17 AM

My wife's golf partner is related to one of the Pohlads. She said they are big with Save the Whales.


This [SIZE=2]double-entendre made me laugh. I woke my room mate up. Shame on you! :roll:[/SIZE]

#9 howieramone1406390264

howieramone1406390264

    Banned

  • Banned
  • 715 posts

Posted 10 March 2014 - 06:44 AM

Virtually the same payroll as last year. Middle of the road and worse starters were signed. If the front office was sincere about winning, they would have actually "spent" more money.


Last season 3 of the top 10 payroll teams made the play-offs, as did 3 of the bottom 5.

#10 sandbun

sandbun

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • 25 posts

Posted 10 March 2014 - 07:51 AM

Last season 3 of the top 10 payroll teams made the play-offs, as did 3 of the bottom 5.


And if the Twins were a really good and cheap team, that would be relevant. But they're not, they're a team that could easily lose 90 games again this year and shock no one. So when that's the case and people don't see you taking advantage of a way to improve that is open to you, then people are going to rip you for that. And as Oxtung pointed out, there are a ton of ways you could use the gap between what the Twins' payroll is allowed to be and what it actually is that TR could take advantage of that don't even involve signing more FAs.

#11 mike wants wins

mike wants wins

    Would Like to be More Positive

  • Members
  • 6,135 posts

Posted 10 March 2014 - 08:07 AM

There was a total stud Cuban DH available, that will haunt them for years in Chicago. They could have offered more money, and signed one of those catchers. They could trade some of that years away talent (anyone remember Joe Benson) for proven expensive players. They could adjust contracts as suggested above. They could still sign Santana and Drew.
Lighten up Francis....

#12 JB_Iowa

JB_Iowa

    Cynical Oldie

  • Members
  • 3,819 posts
  • LocationNorthwest Iowa

Posted 10 March 2014 - 10:25 AM

There's one more thing that they could have done.

Publicly announce that the 50% "rule" has gone by the wayside.

I don't have as much problem with them failing to spend more this year as Mike does but I want some public acknowledgment that down the road when they may be in a contending position, they are going to be willing to go significantly beyond that 50% if that's what it takes to try to put the final pieces in place.

#13 mike wants wins

mike wants wins

    Would Like to be More Positive

  • Members
  • 6,135 posts

Posted 10 March 2014 - 10:46 AM

JB, I agree with you. IF they spent the savings to go over budget, I'd feel better about using tax dollars to subsidize tickets, payroll, and profits.
Lighten up Francis....

#14 jokin

jokin

    Twins News Team

  • Twins News Team
  • 7,122 posts

Posted 10 March 2014 - 01:45 PM

Last season 3 of the top 10 payroll teams made the play-offs, as did 3 of the bottom 5.


So...the answer out of this mess is to cut more payroll?

#15 Jim Crikket

Jim Crikket

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,134 posts

Posted 10 March 2014 - 02:04 PM

So...the answer out of this mess is to cut more payroll?


Don't even joke about that. Especially now that the front office types apparently occasionally peruse TD!
[COLOR=#0000cd]I opine about the Twins and Kernels regularly at[/COLOR][COLOR=#800000] Knuckleballsblog.com[/COLOR][COLOR=#0000cd] while my alter ego, SD Buhr covers the Kernels for [/COLOR][COLOR=#0000cd][COLOR=#800000]MetroSportsReport.com[/COLOR][/COLOR][COLOR=#0000cd].[/COLOR] [COLOR=#0000cd]
[/COLOR]

[COLOR=#b22222]~You can get anything you want at Alice's Restaurant~[/COLOR]

#16 SweetOne69

SweetOne69

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 464 posts

Posted 10 March 2014 - 02:50 PM

There are a lot of ways they could use that money:

1) Be creative with contracts. Rework Mauer's deal so that he get's $50 million this season and then only $14 million/year in his last 3 seasons. Front load Nolasco's deal so that the Twins pay him $30 million this season but only owe him $6 million per year the rest of the way. Rework Perkins' deal so that you pay him a bit more this season (say an additional $4 million) but you get a second option year for 2017 at just $4 million again.


I believe this is not allowed per the CBA. While the CBA doesn't limit pay increases it does put a limit on pay cut's. I believe a current player's salary can only decrease 20% from one year to the next.

Edited by SweetOne69, 10 March 2014 - 02:57 PM.
Corrected percentage


#17 mike wants wins

mike wants wins

    Would Like to be More Positive

  • Members
  • 6,135 posts

Posted 10 March 2014 - 02:52 PM

Then make it a signing bonus, sweeetone.....not that hard really. Add 1 dollar to his salary, and convert some of it to signing bonus.
Lighten up Francis....

#18 SweetOne69

SweetOne69

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 464 posts

Posted 10 March 2014 - 02:58 PM

Then make it a signing bonus, sweeetone.....not that hard really. Add 1 dollar to his salary, and convert some of it to signing bonus.


I don't think that would still be allowed.

#19 Oxtung

Oxtung

    I don't skinny dip. I chunky dunk.

  • Members
  • 1,522 posts

Posted 10 March 2014 - 10:40 PM

There was a total stud Cuban DH available, that will haunt them for years in Chicago. They could have offered more money, and signed one of those catchers. They could trade some of that years away talent (anyone remember Joe Benson) for proven expensive players. They could adjust contracts as suggested above. They could still sign Santana and Drew.


Another option was to take on a bad contract. If the player is a good player but is just getting over paid the Twins could take that on and perhaps it would require little in return.

I wouldn't have advocated for say, Fielder, even assuming we could have gotten him for his salary alone, which we couldn't have. But what about Buehrle, Dickey, Alfonso Soriano or Jimmy Rollins? How about some big risk, big reward moves like seeing what Philadelphia wants for Cliff Lee or Papelbon. They are both excellent right now but they also both have multiple big money years left and are getting very old.

There are probably more out there I'm not thinking of.

#20 Oxtung

Oxtung

    I don't skinny dip. I chunky dunk.

  • Members
  • 1,522 posts

Posted 10 March 2014 - 10:43 PM

I believe this is not allowed per the CBA. While the CBA doesn't limit pay increases it does put a limit on pay cut's. I believe a current player's salary can only decrease 20% from one year to the next.


I don't think that applies in this situation. There was a team that did exactly what I'm talking about this off season, though not quite to the extreme that I was suggesting perhaps. For the life of me I can't think of who it was though.

#21 Ncgo4

Ncgo4

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 229 posts

Posted 11 March 2014 - 04:14 AM

How about this. The Twins are doing it just right. This is their last year to stockpile a very high draft pick so let's not spend an extra $30 million to go from a top 4 to 7 pick to a top 15 pick. That would make zero sense.

All the excitement about our prospects will keep the wolves at bay. Next year our drafting begins to pay off. Buxton, Sano, Pinto and Rosario could be in the lineup, with Maye starting and Stewart and a few other pitchers showing well in the high minors.

This is the year to watch the minors and next year begins the pay off at Target Field.

#22 oldguy10

oldguy10

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 308 posts

Posted 11 March 2014 - 06:17 AM

"begins the pay off" is way too huge of an assumption in my mind, much will have to click for that to become a reality. Let's hope it does but it may not be 2015 either. Time for a little caution before we deem all of the kids all-stars.

#23 mike wants wins

mike wants wins

    Would Like to be More Positive

  • Members
  • 6,135 posts

Posted 11 March 2014 - 06:28 AM

How about this. The Twins are doing it just right. This is their last year to stockpile a very high draft pick so let's not spend an extra $30 million to go from a top 4 to 7 pick to a top 15 pick. That would make zero sense.

All the excitement about our prospects will keep the wolves at bay. Next year our drafting begins to pay off. Buxton, Sano, Pinto and Rosario could be in the lineup, with Maye starting and Stewart and a few other pitchers showing well in the high minors.

This is the year to watch the minors and next year begins the pay off at Target Field.


doesn't work that way......A team sells season tickets based on the previous year's results. So basically, there will be TONS of tickets available next year too....the wolves may not be kept at bay, but the potential ticketholders will be. Won't be hard to find tickets again this year, or next.
Lighten up Francis....

#24 howieramone1406390264

howieramone1406390264

    Banned

  • Banned
  • 715 posts

Posted 11 March 2014 - 07:44 AM

There was a total stud Cuban DH available, that will haunt them for years in Chicago. They could have offered more money, and signed one of those catchers. They could trade some of that years away talent (anyone remember Joe Benson) for proven expensive players. They could adjust contracts as suggested above. They could still sign Santana and Drew.


Mike, could you be more specific on which years away talent they should trade? IMO only Buxton, possibly Meyer, could be used as headliners for proven expensive players. Sounds like you want to gut our farm system for a few more wins in 2014.

#25 mike wants wins

mike wants wins

    Would Like to be More Positive

  • Members
  • 6,135 posts

Posted 11 March 2014 - 08:00 AM

Yes, I totally said we should trade Buxton and Meyer.

Trades of medium prospects for overly expensive players happen all the time. Others on this board, for example, have suggested that you might be able to get Cliff Lee for a B or C level prospect, once Philly decides they aren't good. We have seen it happen in baseball before, trade prospects for expensive vets.
Lighten up Francis....

#26 howieramone1406390264

howieramone1406390264

    Banned

  • Banned
  • 715 posts

Posted 11 March 2014 - 08:20 AM

Yes, I totally said we should trade Buxton and Meyer.

Trades of medium prospects for overly expensive players happen all the time. Others on this board, for example, have suggested that you might be able to get Cliff Lee for a B or C level prospect, once Philly decides they aren't good. We have seen it happen in baseball before, trade prospects for expensive vets.


Since this happens all the time, could you give us specific examples of which expensive vets the Twins should be targeting for B and C prospects?

Edited by howieramone, 11 March 2014 - 08:30 AM.


#27 mike wants wins

mike wants wins

    Would Like to be More Positive

  • Members
  • 6,135 posts

Posted 11 March 2014 - 08:27 AM

I already suggested the Houston catcher, who is medium expensive for most teams. Previously I have suggested Lee or other Philly pitchers. You don't agree with me, that's fine. It was also one line in a long list of how they could use their money. Frankly, I'd rather they just buy Cuban free agents or other FAs.
Lighten up Francis....

#28 howieramone1406390264

howieramone1406390264

    Banned

  • Banned
  • 715 posts

Posted 11 March 2014 - 12:12 PM

Mike, you peaked my interest, let's continue this train of thought. We could get the Houston catcher for a Kepler type or 2, and Lee for a Polanco type or 3. Seems that would gut our farm system to win a few more games in 2014 and not sure the guys would like to see Pinto aced out.

Edited by howieramone, 11 March 2014 - 12:19 PM.


#29 mike wants wins

mike wants wins

    Would Like to be More Positive

  • Members
  • 6,135 posts

Posted 11 March 2014 - 12:28 PM

Well, trading Kepler hardly guts our farm system. Also, the Houston catcher is in his mid twenties. He's going to be expensive, but still good, over the years that our best players will be young and cheap. IMO, he's the exact kind of guy they should be going after..... Young enough to be good (but not free) while the new guys are cheap.
Lighten up Francis....

#30 mike wants wins

mike wants wins

    Would Like to be More Positive

  • Members
  • 6,135 posts

Posted 11 March 2014 - 12:30 PM

And, imo, you need two good catchers, both of which can hit and field.....that's better than Suzuki types catching 60 games or so.
Lighten up Francis....