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Article: TD Top Prospects: #2 Miguel Sano

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#21 Steve Lein

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 02:48 PM

This. Plus this idea that it has been "clearly demonstrated" that the Twins made him use the whole field or go the other way is just not true.


This is just one example of an article talking about how the Twins tried to change him. From:

http://espn.go.com/b...ame-david-ortiz

(it does also go on to say how they wanted him to utilize his power-frame more, but this is why I say it's been demonstrated)

"Ortiz spent nearly all of 1999 at Triple-A, hitting .315 with 30 home runs, before going 0-for-20 in September. He hit .282/.364/.446, playing in 130 games but platooned a lot. But there was a reason he hit only 10 home runs.

The Sporting News, April 30, 2001:

A year ago, the Twins tried to get DH David Ortiz to shorten his stroke and punch balls up the middle and to the opposite field."

Scouting Report: Power: 30, Hitting: 50, Arm: 60, Defense: 45, Speed: 45. "Line drive swing and shows good contact and on-base abilities. Double's power at his peak. Strong arm from 2B or the OF, stiff hands. Not a fast runner, but above average instincts on the bases. Skinny body doesn't look the part, but will sneak up on you. ACL surgery sapped much of his athleticism." (Probably)

#22 Linus

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 02:58 PM

This is just one example of an article talking about how the Twins tried to change him. From:

http://espn.go.com/b...ame-david-ortiz

(it does also go on to say how they wanted him to utilize his power-frame more, but this is why I say it's been demonstrated)

"Ortiz spent nearly all of 1999 at Triple-A, hitting .315 with 30 home runs, before going 0-for-20 in September. He hit .282/.364/.446, playing in 130 games but platooned a lot. But there was a reason he hit only 10 home runs.

The Sporting News, April 30, 2001:

A year ago, the Twins tried to get DH David Ortiz to shorten his stroke and punch balls up the middle and to the opposite field."


Sorry. Something from the Sporting News doesn't qualify as proof. Letting Ortiz go was one of the biggest mistakes the Twins ever made. Fine - we can all agree on that. The idea that the way he was coached in Minnesota was the problem and that, magically, the way he was coached in Boston made all the difference is just baloney. As a hitter, he figured it out - that's how it works sometimes. I think it is more clear that he started juicing than getting away from some horrible hitting approach. I think it is also telling that after the Twins let him go, he sat around for a while before signing with the Red Sox.

#23 cmb0252

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 03:02 PM

Who cares about Ortiz? This article is about Sano who is going to be awesome. I'm already planning to get his jersey the second he hits the bigs.

#24 jimv2

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 03:19 PM

Can we stop with the "Twins ruined David Ortiz power" business. He turned into a great hitter, partially because he could use the whole field in Fenway and because he started taking special vitamins and was hurt a lot less. He was an injury prone, inconsistent hitter with the Twins. That was on him, pure and simple. He needed somebody to blame it on and wasn't man enough to take the blame.


Bingo.

#25 tobi0040

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 03:25 PM

I think it is also telling that after the Twins let him go, he sat around for a while before signing with the Red Sox.


Good point, he made $1.25M in his first year in Boston. I think he may have signed to a minor league deal initially.

#26 Steve Lein

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 03:54 PM

Sorry. Something from the Sporting News doesn't qualify as proof. Letting Ortiz go was one of the biggest mistakes the Twins ever made. Fine - we can all agree on that. The idea that the way he was coached in Minnesota was the problem and that, magically, the way he was coached in Boston made all the difference is just baloney. As a hitter, he figured it out - that's how it works sometimes. I think it is more clear that he started juicing than getting away from some horrible hitting approach. I think it is also telling that after the Twins let him go, he sat around for a while before signing with the Red Sox.


I said that is just one example. If I had time to do an exhaustive search, I guarantee I would fine numerous more. (another example just because: http://www.twincitie...ars-david-ortiz)

And heck, sure he sat around waiting for a team to sign him. Luckily for him, that team was Boston. They let him be himself, which in turn resulted in him becoming their powerhouse DH. When he started with them he was platooned, until it was clear what he was doing for them was working. I think that says a lot about how their potential "coaching" helped him become that guy (Juice or no juice). It's not always a guy just "figures it out" by himself. Look at all the talk about the changes Brian Dozier made last year, for example. A lot of that credit is given to Brunansky for helping him make those changes. You're certain that is not the case with Ortiz? Find proof of that for me...

But I digress. I'm definitely looking forward to Sano's MLB debut more than any other player ever. Such a different type of guy for the Twins, and that's going to make it that much more fun watching him!
Scouting Report: Power: 30, Hitting: 50, Arm: 60, Defense: 45, Speed: 45. "Line drive swing and shows good contact and on-base abilities. Double's power at his peak. Strong arm from 2B or the OF, stiff hands. Not a fast runner, but above average instincts on the bases. Skinny body doesn't look the part, but will sneak up on you. ACL surgery sapped much of his athleticism." (Probably)

#27 Seth Stohs

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 04:41 PM

It's fun reminiscing about the David Ortiz situation, isn't it?

Oh yeah... Miguel Sano...

#28 oldguy10

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 05:38 PM

^^^Great point and rebuttal, Seth. Why bring up Ortiz when the thread is about Sano!

#29 Paul Pleiss

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 05:46 PM

A different kind of question. You called Sano a cornerstone player. I agree, when he comes up he should be successful, and even if he just becomes a power hitting below average third basemen he looks to be a positive player for the Twins for the foreseeable future. My question is this: How long until Miguel Sano has a corner locker in the clubhouse?

#30 Thrylos

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 06:36 PM

I think that the 2 negatives mentioned are very overblown:

In his age 20 season Sano had a 27.4% K% overall. In his age 20 season Harmon Killebrew had a 35.5% K%. I think that Killebrew turned out alright.

About the HR incident:

a. There was bad blood between Sano and the pitcher; from here, referring to a Reusse writeup:

[FONT=Arial]Sano was promoted from Class A Fort Myers to New Britain on June 9 and joined the lineup on June 12. Lanigan was released from New Britain on June 25. During that two-week period, Sano and Lanigan had a loud confrontation as the Rock Cats were on a road trip.

[/FONT]


b. Lanigan was one of Jeff Smith's favorites. Ask any player in the Twins' organization (in private) who has played for Jeff Smith about how much they like him and what he is all about. I am amazed that he is still with the organization.

c. The Twins should not take the edge out of Sano. A bit of attitude infusion will do wonders for this team.
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#31 Seth Stohs

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 07:05 PM

Thrylos, I assume you are referring to Killebrew's strikeout rate in the big leagues as a 20 year old, three seasons before he played consistently in the big leagues?

There will be examples on both side of the strikeout thing. Wood is one example, and there are examples the other direction. I don't think I've overblown it by stating that it is a concern, and I think it can be a concern. It's just one piece of his game. It's not something I'm particularly worried about at this time, but it would be naive not to mention it.

As for the incident, I can't believe there are people who think showing up an opponent, regardless of the back story, is ok. I'm good with showmanship, enthusiasm, excitement, but there has to be a line.

And, I'm with you completely on the Jeff Smith thing. I was shocked when he got assigned to the AFL... I don't get it.

#32 DocBauer

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 08:08 PM

I hope Sano is ready to begin the season at AAA, rock the first half of the season and be promoted mid season where he continues to produce and establish himself as a future star. But I also want Meyer to do the exact same thing. And I want Gibson to be 100% ready out of ST, make the rotation and never leave. And I want Buxton to do the same thing at AA, get promoted to AAA mid season, continue to shine, look great in September, and establish himself as a budding all star and permanent fixture in CF for the next dozen years starting in 2015.

And all of these things could really happen. But...but...they might not. Especially in the cases of Buxton and Sano and how young they are, 20 and 21 early season. This is NO inditement as to their talent or potential. In fact, it's actually just the opposite! They are both SO talented that it makes what they have done already, and will yet do, all the more impressive considering their youth.

They'll get here. It will be soon. We're all impatient for it. But Sano specifically in this case, would not be hurt by a brief return to AA to begin the year. While his AVG was down there and strikeouts a little high, so was his power, walks, OB and production. But I could see managers, coaches and scouts, (who watched him in person all season), determine that a month or so to get in a groove, beat up on people, conquer that AA level just a little bit more before moving up to AAA with even more confidence.

This wouldn't in any way "set him back" or even slow him down. In fact, it might even speed up his development to gain momentum, keep it going, and shoot right to the Twins sometime second half.

Now, he could just as easily ale in ST and prove he's immediately ready for Rochester and AAA competition. Simply stating no need to rush him, and no need to panic if the Twins are a little conservative the first month or so.

#33 Willihammer

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 08:47 PM

Re: Sano getting bigger. Should we start to worry about his weight? If he's 6' 4" and 250 lbs, then he's already got 10 pounds on Miguel Cabrera - who used to look like this, back in his 3B days for Florida:

Posted Image

Not that either Cabrera or Sano are real fatsos.But, maybe those 20-25 pounds of paunch factor into the difference between a player that is able to stick at 3b and one who has to play 1B?

Seems like every team has at least one guy - CC in NY, Sandoval in SF, Fielder in TX, Delmon in Bal, etc.

All those guys, at their worst, were a lot heavier than Sano is now. Obviously they didn't get that way overnight. Would it be out of order to ask Sano to do something about his weight now?

#34 Thrylos

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 09:14 PM

Re: Sano getting bigger. Should we start to worry about his weight? If he's 6' 4" and 250 lbs, then he's already got 10 pounds on Miguel Cabrera - who used to look like this, back in his 3B days for Florida:


ok. There are 250 lbs and there are 250 lbs. Here is what Sano looks like these days (from Twinsfest)

Posted Image


And here is what Pablo Sandoval (a third baseman) used to look like at allegedly 240 lbs last season:

Posted Image

(he is 5'11" - with 3 inch heels on)

Here is what Miguel Cabrera (allegedly listed at 240 who is also 6'4") looked like last season:

Posted Image


So. Are you really still wondering about Sano's weight?
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#35 Willihammer

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 09:53 PM

My question is about the trend. Every new report I read about Miguel Sano they all say the same thing - he's still getting bigger. Well, what's getting bigger? He's listed at 6' 4." is that 250 pounds all muscle? Obviously no. Not standing next to Byron Buxton its not.

My thinking is, take the Sano from 2-3 years ago, when he looked like this:

Posted Image

And draw a straight line through the 250 pound Sano of today, and there's a chance that in 4-5 years his body "grows" into something like this:

Posted Image

Heh, just kidding (not really).

Maybe Sano's physical development mirror's Cabrera's, who again, isn't obese or anything but, he like Sano, isn't exactly Adrian Beltre over there and maybe keeping 25 pounds of paunch off his frame is the difference between playing 3B and 1B. He would seem to need every edge he can get.

#36 Thrylos

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Posted 14 February 2014 - 06:21 AM

Maybe Sano's physical development mirror's Cabrera's, who again, isn't obese or anything but, he like Sano, isn't exactly Adrian Beltre over there and maybe keeping 25 pounds of paunch off his frame is the difference between playing 3B and 1B. He would seem to need every edge he can get.


If those 25 lbs (of muscle) help him hit 50+ instead of 30 HRs, I'd take the less range at 3B
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#37 Blackjack

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Posted 14 February 2014 - 07:41 AM

Lets face it, theres a naturaly aging process for everyone, as a former marathon runner, I know!! Every year that they get out of him at third base is a bonus!! Sooner or later he will be at first base or DH or outfield.

#38 tobi0040

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Posted 14 February 2014 - 07:53 AM

http://i.usatoday.net/communitymanager/_photos/daily-pitch/2012/08/03/youngx-large.jpg[/IMG]

.



I think it comes down to his love for baseball and his drive to get better. By all accounts, Sano is a hard worker, both offensively and defensively who wants to be great. Delmon Young had all the talent in the world but to me he didn't like playing baseball, never worked on defense, or worked on his conditioning. I don't see the parrallel to Sano in that sense.

#39 wabene

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Posted 14 February 2014 - 09:25 AM

It's fun reminiscing about the David Ortiz situation, isn't it?

Oh yeah... Miguel Sano...


Yeah why cry about Ortiz he was still unproven so a miss is understandable. NOW if you wanna cry I would cry about the Bartlet/Garza trade. I knew that was a bad move at the time and I don't know much about baseball.

#40 Mike Sixel

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Posted 14 February 2014 - 09:48 AM

I can't wait for him to be up here. Thank goodness they went outside their normal processes and signed him. A testament to the scouts and negotiators that they recognized his potential, and signed him.

I don't see why they should keep him in AA. The pitchers in AAA are better, they are largely former MLB starters, or number 5 pitchers waiting for an injury......but as long as he is up for 2 or more months this year, I'm pleased.