Jump to content

Providing independent coverage of the Minnesota Twins.

The Store

Subscribe to Twins Daily Email

Recent Blogs


Photo

Article: Twins Claim Brooks Raley from Cubs

  • Please log in to reply
91 replies to this topic

#31 cmathewson

cmathewson

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 2,273 posts

Posted 12 February 2014 - 04:46 PM

Meh
"If you'da been thinkin' you wouldn't 'a thought that.."

#32 birdwatcher

birdwatcher

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,230 posts

Posted 12 February 2014 - 05:02 PM

I think the Twins see something they like.

Working out of the bullpen in the majors for the first time last year, he faced 25 LHB. They hit .182/.280/.227 and struck out 32% of the time. Small sample, but perhaps his stuff plays up out of the pen.

He's 25 and has an option remaining. I don't see any downside.


Interesting take, JP, thanks.

#33 howieramone1406390264

howieramone1406390264

    Banned

  • Banned
  • 715 posts

Posted 12 February 2014 - 05:06 PM

Meh


Couldn't have said it better. At some point in time last season, a Twins official said lack of lefties is an organizational weakness. Since that time we have picked up Sulbaran, Kris Johnson, Gilmartin, and Raley. Small, minute risk moves.

Edited by howieramone, 12 February 2014 - 05:18 PM.


#34 Thrylos

Thrylos

    Yes

  • Members
  • 4,513 posts
  • LocationLehigh Valley, PA, USA
  • Twitter: thrylos98

Posted 12 February 2014 - 05:11 PM

Here is why I don't like this move:

Assume that Worley, Diamond and Deduno (all without options) make the team out of ST, which means that one of them will be the 5th starter and the other 2 in the pen which will send 2 out of the relievers with options (Fien?, Thielbar?, Tonkin?) to Rochester.

Kyle Gibson, Alex Meyer, Kris Johnson, Logar Darnell, Pat Deat (the last 3 LHSP btw, just like Raley), Vasquez will be competing for 5 rotation spots in Rochester with one being sent to New Britain or in the pen. Add Raley, that is 2 in New Britain or in the pen. Gibson will not be one of them, but if this sends one of Alex Meyer (mostly), Pat Dean or Logan Darnell (all guys with higher upside and better performance than Raley,) to New Britain, it would be a shame...
-----
Blogging Twins since 2007 at The Tenth Inning Stretch
http://tenthinningst...h.blogspot.com/
twitter: @thrylos98

#35 jokin

jokin

    Twins News Team

  • Twins News Team
  • 7,669 posts

Posted 12 February 2014 - 05:16 PM

Interesting take, JP, thanks.


Robertson and Raley, 6 months apart in age.
Similar major league experience.
Identical salary structure.
Both would take up a roster spot.

Robertson much better against lefties with higher velocity.

#36 jokin

jokin

    Twins News Team

  • Twins News Team
  • 7,669 posts

Posted 12 February 2014 - 05:18 PM

Here is why I don't like this move:

Assume that Worley, Diamond and Deduno (all without options) make the team out of ST, which means that one of them will be the 5th starter and the other 2 in the pen which will send 2 out of the relievers with options (Fien?, Thielbar?, Tonkin?) to Rochester.

Kyle Gibson, Alex Meyer, Kris Johnson, Logar Darnell, Pat Deat (the last 3 LHSP btw, just like Raley), Vasquez will be competing for 5 rotation spots in Rochester with one being sent to New Britain or in the pen. Add Raley, that is 2 in New Britain or in the pen. Gibson will not be one of them, but if this sends one of Alex Meyer (mostly), Pat Dean or Logan Darnell (all guys with higher upside and better performance than Raley,) to New Britain, it would be a shame...


And Gilmartin?

#37 Thrylos

Thrylos

    Yes

  • Members
  • 4,513 posts
  • LocationLehigh Valley, PA, USA
  • Twitter: thrylos98

Posted 12 February 2014 - 05:21 PM

And Gilmartin?


Thank you. Forgot about him. That makes it 4 LHSP in the system with higher potential than Raley already. And 3 of the aforementioned would need to go to NB, which will push a whole bunch of others to the Fort Myers' rotation and others to Beloit's etc...
-----
Blogging Twins since 2007 at The Tenth Inning Stretch
http://tenthinningst...h.blogspot.com/
twitter: @thrylos98

#38 JP3700

JP3700

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 294 posts

Posted 12 February 2014 - 05:23 PM

Also, your sample size is extremely small, negative as well as positive results show up amongst those SSS numbers. His MLB career FIP against lefties is 5.40 and against righties is 6.92. His larger sample minor league numbers are about the same versus both left and right, not suggesting a strong LOOGY candidate



I had already mentioned that it's a small sample. Those MLB numbers include his five starts and the minor league numbers are of him as a starter. The numbers I posted are strictly as a reliever against LHB.

As I mentioned, perhaps his stuff plays up in the bullpen. Maybe between their scouts and their video of him, the Twins see something that could make him an effective reliever.

I don't know much of anything about the guy, but looking at the numbers I found that might be something the Twins might like. Either way, it's really nothing to go too worked up about.

#39 BSP

BSP

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • 11 posts

Posted 12 February 2014 - 05:23 PM

You know it's a slow time of year for baseball and the team when a minor waiver claim gets two pages of responses in just a few hours!

Every team is making minor adjustments to their 40 man roster right now. Raley might not even be on the 40 man in a week.

I'm hoping this thread gets up to at least 5 pages. Get to work!

-Brett
I'm Brett.

Tobias Fünke: I'm afraid I prematurely shot my wad on what was supposed to be a dry run if you will, so I'm afraid I have something of a mess on my hands.
Michael Bluth: There's so many poorly chosen words in that sentence.

#40 jokin

jokin

    Twins News Team

  • Twins News Team
  • 7,669 posts

Posted 12 February 2014 - 05:29 PM

Raley might not even be on the 40 man in a week.

I'm hoping this thread gets up to at least 5 pages. Get to work!


I'm counting on just such an event as being the capstone on this thread when Raley somehow manages to clear waivers.

#41 Heimer

Heimer

    Member

  • Members
  • 41 posts

Posted 12 February 2014 - 05:35 PM

[quote name='Thrylos']Here is why I don't like this move:

Assume that Worley, Diamond and Deduno (all without options) make the team out of ST.

The probability this happening is very small... The kid is still 25 years old and if i was the GM I would take any young pitcher that has potential to be on the next great Twins Team. Even if the liklyhood is 3 percent.

#42 jokin

jokin

    Twins News Team

  • Twins News Team
  • 7,669 posts

Posted 12 February 2014 - 05:36 PM

Couldn't have said it better.

At some point in time last season, a Twins official said lack of lefties is an organizational weakness.

Since that time we have picked up Sulbaran, Kris Johnson, Gilmartin, and Raley. Small, minute risk moves.


Based on your list, sans Sulbaran, lack of lefties is still an organizational weakness.

#43 Thrylos

Thrylos

    Yes

  • Members
  • 4,513 posts
  • LocationLehigh Valley, PA, USA
  • Twitter: thrylos98

Posted 12 February 2014 - 05:48 PM

[quote name='Heimer'][quote name='Thrylos'] The kid is still 25 years old and if i was the GM I would take any young pitcher that has potential to be on the next great Twins Team. Even if the liklyhood is 3 percent.[/QUOTE]

Even if they have to send Alex Meyer and a couple of pitchers younger and better than him to New Britain?
-----
Blogging Twins since 2007 at The Tenth Inning Stretch
http://tenthinningst...h.blogspot.com/
twitter: @thrylos98

#44 jokin

jokin

    Twins News Team

  • Twins News Team
  • 7,669 posts

Posted 12 February 2014 - 05:57 PM

[quote name='Thrylos'][quote name='Heimer']

Even if they have to send Alex Meyer and a couple of pitchers younger and better than him to New Britain?[/QUOTE]

The only thing that makes sense IMO is that the Twins expect Raley to pass through waivers and that they expect that multiple pitchers currently on the roster are not in the longer term plans. ie, Correia will be dealt before the deadline, Deduno in doubt on his health status, Diamond and Worley either dealt for PTBNL or DFAd. That's 5 spots that soon could be opened up right there.

#45 mike wants wins

mike wants wins

    Would Like to be More Positive

  • Members
  • 6,990 posts

Posted 12 February 2014 - 06:16 PM

If they expect one of the main pieces they acquired last year to be DFAd, that does not increase my confidence.....

What I just typed is probably an opinion, not a fact. I mean, I'm usually right, so you should maybe assume it is or will be a fact soon, but that's up to you. :)


#46 jokin

jokin

    Twins News Team

  • Twins News Team
  • 7,669 posts

Posted 12 February 2014 - 06:23 PM

If they expect one of the main pieces they acquired last year to be DFAd, that does not increase my confidence.....


Has anything happened in the offseason with Worley to upgrade his current Blackburn-like, limbo-status?

#47 Thrylos

Thrylos

    Yes

  • Members
  • 4,513 posts
  • LocationLehigh Valley, PA, USA
  • Twitter: thrylos98

Posted 12 February 2014 - 06:28 PM

Has anything happened in the offseason with Worley to upgrade his current Blackburn-like, limbo-status?


Yes. He got healthy, got a workout regiment and showed up minus 25 lbs at Fort Myers.
-----
Blogging Twins since 2007 at The Tenth Inning Stretch
http://tenthinningst...h.blogspot.com/
twitter: @thrylos98

#48 jokin

jokin

    Twins News Team

  • Twins News Team
  • 7,669 posts

Posted 12 February 2014 - 06:54 PM

Yes. He got healthy, got a workout regiment and showed up minus 25 lbs at Fort Myers.


That is really good to hear. A chance at getting his 2011 numbers (ERA+ 127) in the #5 spot in the rotation would be a huge shot in the arm to the rotation. And it gives the Twins more options going forward (like possibly moving Hughes to the bullpen, trading Correia sooner rather than later, trading Worley from a position of strength rather than weakness, trading one of the pitching prospects to fill one of the other holes, etc.).

#49 TheLeviathan

TheLeviathan

    Twins News Team

  • Twins News Team
  • 5,524 posts

Posted 12 February 2014 - 07:02 PM

I have to imagine this is Thielbar insurance. Caleb is about 100% likely to see a production decline. If that decline is precipitous than a guy like Raley may come in handy. My guess he gets moved permanant lay to the bullpen down there.

#50 CRArko

CRArko

    Agent of SHIELD

  • Members
  • 1,766 posts
  • LocationIn the shadows.
  • Twitter: crarko

Posted 12 February 2014 - 07:26 PM

permanant lay to the bullpen down there.



#51 golfboy1

golfboy1

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 106 posts

Posted 12 February 2014 - 07:47 PM

[quote name='jokin'][quote name='Thrylos']

The only thing that makes sense IMO is that the Twins expect Raley to pass through waivers and that they expect that multiple pitchers currently on the roster are not in the longer term plans. ie, Correia will be dealt before the deadline, Deduno in doubt on his health status, Diamond and Worley either dealt for PTBNL or DFAd. That's 5 spots that soon could be opened up right there.[/QUOTE]

That makes as much sense as anything. His stats are underwhelming but maybe the Twins see something in him as a LOOGY. I'm not impressed by the move but it's much ado about nothing. He will certainly not get in the way of any real prospect & it will not stop the Twins from making any 40 man roster moves.

He's just another LH guy they are throwing into the mix. Odds are he won't pan out but there is always a chance. A year ago I never would have thought Thielbar would amount to anything & so far he has been an asset.

#52 twinsfanstl

twinsfanstl

    Member

  • Members
  • 48 posts

Posted 12 February 2014 - 08:01 PM

Hmmm. To me it signals the firing of Anderson. The promotion of Nieto and a player/coach contract to Johan to school this stable of mediocre lefties in the art of the changeup. (Doing my part to get this thread to 5 pages o comments)

#53 John Bonnes

John Bonnes

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 5,004 posts

Posted 12 February 2014 - 08:15 PM

I'll eat my hat if this means May or Meyer is sent to AA. I don't see that at all.

To me this is similar to a Rule 5 pick, except that he even has an option. They can try him out in spring training, see if moving him to the bullpen creates a little magic. He did have 14K in 14IP out of the bullpen for the Cubs.

Plus, they can stash him in AAA (possible as a reliever so he doesn't impact the starting rotation) if they think they've got something. Otherwise, he's a candidate to let go when Kubel is added to the 40-man. There isn't much downside.

Plus, it gives the Cubs a little payback for that whole Liam Hendriks stunt. That's the sort of icing that can make a move like this that much more tasty.

#54 cmathewson

cmathewson

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 2,273 posts

Posted 12 February 2014 - 08:36 PM

Based on your list, sans Sulbaran, lack of lefties is still an organizational weakness.


It might still be an organizational weakness, but adding five viable lefties (two for the lower levels, three for the upper levels) in less than a year goes a long way to shoring that up. In the lower levels, I would add Gonsalves. I rank him two slots behind Sulbaran in the organization.
"If you'da been thinkin' you wouldn't 'a thought that.."

#55 cmathewson

cmathewson

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 2,273 posts

Posted 12 February 2014 - 08:36 PM

Hmmm. To me it signals the firing of Anderson. The promotion of Nieto and a player/coach contract to Johan to school this stable of mediocre lefties in the art of the changeup. (Doing my part to get this thread to 5 pages o comments)


We already have the guy who taught Johan to throw the change-up on the major league staff.
"If you'da been thinkin' you wouldn't 'a thought that.."

#56 jokin

jokin

    Twins News Team

  • Twins News Team
  • 7,669 posts

Posted 12 February 2014 - 08:42 PM

It might still be an organizational weakness, but adding five viable lefties (two for the lower levels, three for the upper levels) in less than a year goes a long way to shoring that up. In the lower levels, I would add Gonsalves. I rank him two slots behind Sulbaran in the organization.


Low threshold bar set for "viability" at the upper levels, methinks, "more shoring" up is in order for the Twins, hope they keep watching that waiver wire for something better and doing things more productive than merely getting "payback" on the Cubs.

I'll be surprised if we get positive WAR from any of the upper levelees.

Edited by jokin, 12 February 2014 - 08:45 PM.


#57 TheLeviathan

TheLeviathan

    Twins News Team

  • Twins News Team
  • 5,524 posts

Posted 12 February 2014 - 09:05 PM


Well played. And auto-correct can bite me.

#58 spycake

spycake

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 2,425 posts

Posted 12 February 2014 - 09:12 PM

You know it's a slow time of year for baseball and the team when a minor waiver claim gets two pages of responses in just a few hours!

Every team is making minor adjustments to their 40 man roster right now. Raley might not even be on the 40 man in a week.

I'm hoping this thread gets up to at least 5 pages. Get to work!

-Brett


I do not recall the Twins ever doing that before (grabbing a guy off waivers, then sending him back through right away).

#59 glunn

glunn

    Head Moderator

  • Twins Mods
  • 5,484 posts
  • LocationBeverly Hills, CA

Posted 13 February 2014 - 12:13 AM

More garbage. Always scraping the dumpster to try to find something useful--the need is quality, not utility.


Moderator note -- it is a violation of TD policy to label another person as "garbage." This is disrespectful. Furthermore, any of the players who have been called garbage on these forums are ten times better ballplayers than any of us, so if they are garbage then what are we? They may not be good MLB players, but insults like "garbage" are not acceptable.

What if the player were to read this thread? Let's show respect for our fellow human beings. There are thousands of ways to state an opinion that someone is not a good player without referring to him as "garbage."

#60 wagwan

wagwan

    Member

  • Members
  • 77 posts

Posted 13 February 2014 - 04:23 AM

Yes. He got healthy, got a workout regiment and showed up minus 25 lbs at Fort Myers.

So worley is in "The Best Shape of His Life" ?