Jump to content

Providing independent coverage of the Minnesota Twins.
The same great Twins Daily coverage, now for the Vikings.

The Store


Photo

Article: Three-Bagger: Arroyo, Guerrier & Albers

  • Please log in to reply
23 replies to this topic

#1 Nick Nelson

Nick Nelson

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 2,063 posts

Posted 31 January 2014 - 12:10 AM

You can view the page at http://www.twinsdail...Guerrier-Albers

#2 Knotholemike

Knotholemike

    Member

  • Members
  • 35 posts

Posted 31 January 2014 - 07:18 AM

The fact that Arroyo "has not received an offer" is a little misleading. If his agent said the minimum we'll take is "$x" million per year and/or "x" number of years a team is not going to make an offer if their offer would be less than that minimum. This is why agents/teams "circle back" with one another as the off-season progresses to see if either side has changed their stance. Arroyo is probably still holding out for more dollars/years than anyone wants to offer at this point.

#3 Heimer

Heimer

    Member

  • Members
  • 41 posts

Posted 31 January 2014 - 07:59 AM

How many spots are currently open on the 40 man roster?

#4 pierre75275

pierre75275

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 282 posts

Posted 31 January 2014 - 08:03 AM

How many spots are currently open on the 40 man roster?


Just one.

#5 tobi0040

tobi0040

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,303 posts

Posted 31 January 2014 - 08:19 AM

The fact that Arroyo "has not received an offer" is a little misleading. If his agent said the minimum we'll take is "$x" million per year and/or "x" number of years a team is not going to make an offer if their offer would be less than that minimum. This is why agents/teams "circle back" with one another as the off-season progresses to see if either side has changed their stance. Arroyo is probably still holding out for more dollars/years than anyone wants to offer at this point.


If Arroyo's price falls into the 2/16 to 2/18 range I could see Terry signing him and selling high on Correa. You don't want five veterans blocking Meyer and Gibson, on a team that is unlikely to compete.

#6 Shane Wahl

Shane Wahl

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 4,076 posts

Posted 31 January 2014 - 08:39 AM

Arroyo is going to end up signing a one-year, $10 million contract.

I honestly am not being whine-tastic here, but looking back, that Nolasco deal is not nearly as good as it seemed at the time (and I didn't like it that much at the time either). That said, I would rather the Twins be aggressive and get out ahead of other teams than wait on the whims of the market. It just turned out to kinda go south.

#7 troyhobbs

troyhobbs

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 180 posts

Posted 31 January 2014 - 08:41 AM

I'd be fine with signing Arroyo so at least they have some respectable options at SP. I only see them winning about 70 games this year and I don't think Arroyo would do much to change that but still would be an improvement to the rotation.

#8 nicksaviking

nicksaviking

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 3,693 posts

Posted 31 January 2014 - 11:54 AM

Arroyo is going to end up signing a one-year, $10 million contract.

I honestly am not being whine-tastic here, but looking back, that Nolasco deal is not nearly as good as it seemed at the time (and I didn't like it that much at the time either). That said, I would rather the Twins be aggressive and get out ahead of other teams than wait on the whims of the market. It just turned out to kinda go south.


I agree that the Nolasco deal isn't as good as first percieved, but I'm still happy the Twins showed some agression. Still, it could be worse, the Twins could have given Jason Vargas a 4 year deal instead. The Royals are probably the team that's kicking themselves right now.

#9 tobi0040

tobi0040

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,303 posts

Posted 31 January 2014 - 12:33 PM

I agree that the Nolasco deal isn't as good as first percieved, but I'm still happy the Twins showed some agression. Still, it could be worse, the Twins could have given Jason Vargas a 4 year deal instead. The Royals are probably the team that's kicking themselves right now.


I agree completely. Every other year we wait for the prices to fall and they don't. At least we improved our staff this year.

#10 h2oface

h2oface

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 391 posts

Posted 31 January 2014 - 01:16 PM

Arroyo brings his demand down for a 1 yr deal with a mutual option for a second and he is signed right away. At 38, it is time to bet on yourself year to year and get paid what you deserve year by year. A player should only want to be paid for the work they do, and not sitting around injured. Bet on yourself, and earn the highest money you can year by year.

#11 Wookiee of the Year

Wookiee of the Year

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 135 posts

Posted 31 January 2014 - 01:36 PM

I've got no problem with the strategy. How could you? There's no risk here. The Twins are guaranteeing essentially nothing to these players -- not even a spot on the 40-man roster -- and each has shown at some point within the past few years that he can play at a high level.

It also offers some reassurance that players like and respect the Twins organization. We hear Kubel passed up a major league contract to sign with the Twins; even for the others, I'm sure they could've found minor league deals elsewhere. You're doing something right when former players choose you as the club with which to sign their minor league deals, and it's an advantage I hope we can continue to hold in future years. (...Or maybe even this year, with a Johan signing?)


[Albers'] departure leaves a spot open on the 40-man roster, but I wouldn't expect it to be filled very quickly.

That spot's got Kubel's name written all over it.

#12 tobi0040

tobi0040

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,303 posts

Posted 31 January 2014 - 02:37 PM

Arroyo brings his demand down for a 1 yr deal with a mutual option for a second and he is signed right away. At 38, it is time to bet on yourself year to year and get paid what you deserve year by year. A player should only want to be paid for the work they do, and not sitting around injured. Bet on yourself, and earn the highest money you can year by year.


Here is a good article about Arroyo. They think he will eventually get 2/20 with an option. I would do that and move Correa as I think last year he out-performed. You get a better pitcher for another year for a little more. I am guessing we wished we signed Arroyo instead of Pelfrey.


http://espn.go.com/m...royo-unemployed

#13 Rosterman

Rosterman

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 987 posts

Posted 31 January 2014 - 04:52 PM

There is no need to keep a roster spot open because of an add come the end of spring training. Someone either makes the roster or doesn't. If Kubel pushes aside Colabello or Parmelee, so be it. If Guerrier seems a better choice than Diamond or Worley, let it happen. Plus, you always get at least one guy that you can 60-day (Deduno, perhaps).

#14 johnnydakota

johnnydakota

    Banned

  • Banned
  • 1,498 posts

Posted 31 January 2014 - 04:55 PM

Here is a good article about Arroyo. They think he will eventually get 2/20 with an option. I would do that and move Correa as I think last year he out-performed. You get a better pitcher for another year for a little more. I am guessing we wished we signed Arroyo instead of Pelfrey.


http://espn.go.com/m...royo-unemployed


Not so thrilled about Bronson , even if he is an upgrade, but completely agree,about moving Correia, he might be at his all time high in trade value.

#15 TheLeviathan

TheLeviathan

    Twins News Team

  • Twins News Team
  • 5,028 posts

Posted 31 January 2014 - 05:16 PM

Arroyo is going to end up signing a one-year, $10 million contract.

I honestly am not being whine-tastic here, but looking back, that Nolasco deal is not nearly as good as it seemed at the time (and I didn't like it that much at the time either). That said, I would rather the Twins be aggressive and get out ahead of other teams than wait on the whims of the market. It just turned out to kinda go south.


It's too bad for the Twins. The offseason they finally realize "hey, we can't sleep on addressing our needs" is the offseason that falling asleep at the wheel for a few months might have really paid off.

In the long run, what they did this year was the right thing. Let's hope that belief hasn't wavered with some of the other signings that are going down.

#16 jcphitman

jcphitman

    Member

  • Members
  • 47 posts

Posted 31 January 2014 - 07:06 PM

I'd much rather have what the Twins did this year than them waiting for nothing but the bargain bin in previous years. Last year it was tough to find pitchers to take their money. This year they found some good enough pitchers who will hopefully help. I hope they don't think waiting is now the norm. Tanaka really stalled the market. Had he not been around, I think the market would have went much quicker than it did.

#17 Jim H

Jim H

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 439 posts

Posted 01 February 2014 - 09:41 AM

I have a hard time understanding why everyone wants to get rid of Correia. Of all the pitchers on the Twins roster this spring, he was the 2nd best pitcher(next to Nolasco) in 2013 at the major league level. On top of that, does anybody really think he will back a haul in trade? Finally, I expect that the chances of him being one of the 5 best major league pitchers of the available options, is probably better than just about anyone not named Nolasco. So why really, do so many of you want to get rid of him?

#18 tobi0040

tobi0040

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,303 posts

Posted 01 February 2014 - 12:44 PM

I have a hard time understanding why everyone wants to get rid of Correia. Of all the pitchers on the Twins roster this spring, he was the 2nd best pitcher(next to Nolasco) in 2013 at the major league level. On top of that, does anybody really think he will back a haul in trade? Finally, I expect that the chances of him being one of the 5 best major league pitchers of the available options, is probably better than just about anyone not named Nolasco. So why really, do so many of you want to get rid of him?


From my perspective, he is a career 4.45 guy, mainly in the NL. His last year in Pittsburgh he was moved to the bullpen. Then he comes to the AL and has a 4.20. This would be a great time to sell high. I would not want to give him an extension based on last year because I don't think we will see a repeat.

#19 Jim H

Jim H

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 439 posts

Posted 01 February 2014 - 07:31 PM

From my perspective, he is a career 4.45 guy, mainly in the NL. His last year in Pittsburgh he was moved to the bullpen. Then he comes to the AL and has a 4.20. This would be a great time to sell high. I would not want to give him an extension based on last year because I don't think we will see a repeat.


Oh, I don't expect anything all that great from Correia, I just don't expect much of anything from most of the other candidates either. At least until Gibson, Meyer and perhaps others from the farm system get established. Also, I don't believe there is any "sell high" on Correia. All big league clubs are as aware of his track record as we are. There are somewhat comparable guys still available as free agents. Why would anyone trade for Correia at this time? I am certainly not advocating an extention for Correia either. Just keep him around until you are sure you have 5 better starters and some minor league guys trending upward.

#20 TheLeviathan

TheLeviathan

    Twins News Team

  • Twins News Team
  • 5,028 posts

Posted 01 February 2014 - 08:11 PM

So why really, do so many of you want to get rid of him?


Correia may be better than Gibson in 2014. Gibson learning to be better in the majors for 2015-2020 is vastly more important, however. As is the potential contribution of anyone that might be with the team long term. Wasting those opportunities to invest in the future in the name of a pitcher (who had his best year in recent memory and still was "meh") - is a poor choice for a rebuilding team.

#21 Oxtung

Oxtung

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,502 posts

Posted 02 February 2014 - 12:22 PM

I agree with Jim H, Correia wouldn't bring back much of value currently. There are other options out there that could be had for just money instead of money and prospects. The trade deadline will be when Correia could bring back something useful. Perhaps a future bullpen piece, a young guy at A ball the Twins like, or perhaps a guy like Gilmartin who is talented but has been injured or just couldn't put it all together.

#22 cwzimmerman

cwzimmerman

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • 17 posts

Posted 04 February 2014 - 05:53 AM

Oh, I don't expect anything all that great from Correia, I just don't expect much of anything from most of the other candidates either. At least until Gibson, Meyer and perhaps others from the farm system get established. Also, I don't believe there is any "sell high" on Correia. All big league clubs are as aware of his track record as we are. There are somewhat comparable guys still available as free agents. Why would anyone trade for Correia at this time? I am certainly not advocating an extention for Correia either. Just keep him around until you are sure you have 5 better starters and some minor league guys trending upward.


I don't either. IMO, of all the starters who could conceivably come north from spring training, he is likely one of the top five starters and deservedly so based on last season. Once he is no longer considered one of the top five, then a decision will need to be made. I see no reason to hurry that process right now. However, I do agree that he likely wouldn't bring back much in a trade because there are many starting pitchers of relatively similar abilities and capabilities available at any given time, via free agency or by trade. Why give up much of anything worthwhile when you can likely get similar value without having to give up a prospect at any level?

#23 TwinChargers

TwinChargers

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • 10 posts

Posted 05 February 2014 - 02:27 PM

According to Bob Nightengale, the Twins are out on Arroyo. The finalists are Diamondbacks, Dodgers and Orioles.

Perhaps the Twins could be switching there attention to the reportedly cost reduced E.Santana?

#24 laloesch

laloesch

    Member

  • Members
  • 39 posts

Posted 06 February 2014 - 09:12 AM

Correia may be better than Gibson in 2014. Gibson learning to be better in the majors for 2015-2020 is vastly more important, however. As is the potential contribution of anyone that might be with the team long term. Wasting those opportunities to invest in the future in the name of a pitcher (who had his best year in recent memory and still was "meh") - is a poor choice for a rebuilding team.


Agreed. Everyone is jumping on the Gibson bandwagon but what i saw last year was a minor league pitcher that needs time in AAA. Not only did he not keep his fastball down but he had little control of his slider. Correia is no Greg Maddux but he certainly was a much better pitcher in 2013 than Gibson. 2014 is a big year for Kyle Gibson.